wow..i just went to  the  responsive site. It....not  good?  This   site  the way we have it now is perfect.. i played  around on there a bit. and? in the end, i'll have to use it . But  this site  was great as it is!

The responsive site is designed to take advantage of developments in the internet over the past 20 years.  Unfortunately the old site isn't compatible with some of those changes... meaning, for example, that if somebody posts in your game using the responsive site, what other players see on the older version of the site might not display correctly.  This has reached the point, in the last couple of weeks, where jase has decided to make the switch-over official.

The responsive site is (in the opinion of those who already use it) ready to go live, after years of development.

I should note here that I have never used the responsive site before this weekend, and I'm already getting used to it.  Yes, Classic RPoL is great, but Responsive RPoL is basically the same site, with a few tweaks in appearance.

It took me a bit to find everything, but I still get the dark theme and have more exploring to do to remember where it all is. Basically, the dice icon at the top makes me think it’s the dice roller and not the game menu. Once I remember that, it’s not bad but will take getting used to, I think.

I’m dyslexic and fairly visual so the changes are enough to throw me some.

Has the search function being removed? It doesn't seem to be anywhere that I looked.

In reply to Egleris (msg # 4):

On the main page, there is a Browse/Search link on the lowest of the right-hand tables.

In reply to SunRuanEr (msg # 5):

Thanks! I guess the fact that it's under the statistic threw me off. I use the search function relatively often (once every month or two?), so this helps a lot.

I'm not real happy about the changeover either, Don, but I've been aware that it was inevitable since the poll a while back.

That said, I'm hoping that jase finds the time to make a "legacy site" skin that'll make the responsive site look like the old one.

 Yeah?  I the site and the way it runs has  kept me here. I'll get used to  it. The  way the site is  run, keeping out  'bad seeds' and the  like is pretty good. Makes the gaming site a 'safe' place  , and i love   seeing  head  cases getting bounced!

How do you access the WIKI pages from the new interface??? I can’t find the line in any pull down menu. (Note: I’m accessing from a mobile device rather than desktop in case the interface differs between the two). Thanks.

On the main home page, at the top tap the 'Main Menu' link. Wiki is the first drop-down.

Thx. I read that pull down menu several times. NOW I see it! :-)

Actually, WIKI shows up in the Main pull down menu BUT NOT from the one campaign page that actually uses the Wiki. In that campaign, Wiki DOES NOT show up in the Main menu. Is the link somewhere else inside a specific campaign?
This message was last edited by the user at 22:58, Sun 26 Nov 2023.

In a game thread, there's a "Game Wiki" link at the bottom of the top "This Game" sidebar.

Hm. You know Skald, I actually don't see that Game Wiki link from within game threads on responsive.

It's at the bottom of the 'This Game' sidebar? What I see at the bottom (as a player, on desktop) is Game Introduction. As a GM I see GM Menu. I don't actually see 'Game Wiki' anywhere...

Edit: Of course, I also don't see a Game Wiki link anywhere on the original site either. Just the 'Wiki' link at the top of the main page... But I also don't play in any games that have wikis, so maybe that's why I don't see them. /shrug

Edit 2: AHA. That's the ticket. Only games that HAVE wikis have the wiki link. Created one, and immediately saw the link.
This message was last edited by the user at 23:22, Sun 26 Nov 2023.

Ah! Yes. It is in the “This Game” Menu - I did not realize that menu actually extended beyond my visible (mobile device) screen. I had to click on the menu, then pull it down/up to see the 3-4 additional links in the pull down menu that were at the bottom of the menu. The sizing of the menu cutoff perfectly at the bottom of the screen so that it wasn’t obvious that the pull down menu continued off screen and there was not up/down scroll bar that would have made it obvious that the menu continued off screen. Probably not an issue on a desktop screen - just mobile device.

Thanks!! Got it now.

When I saw that a responsive site was in development, I looked at it the way my boss did when I got hired to ship film at a movie theater..."The digital changeover is coming...nobody knows for sure when it's going to happen, but when it does, it's going to be fast...so, you might not have a job in six months, or you might be doing this job ten years from now..." (paraphrasing him).

It actually took about five years for the industry to finally settle on formats and distribution methods...but he was right, it was quick.  For about six months, there was a rash of old, small theaters that closed up shop because they could no longer get film to show and they couldn't afford to upgrade to the new digital equipment...

We did upgrade, and now instead of shipping film, I download ("ingest", to use the industry term) movies from either hard drives shipped to us or FTP sites (that's a recent development, we only started doing that within the last year, and we've been running digital for a decade and change, now...)

I haven't visited the responsive site yet.  I'm hoping it's easier to adjust to than my last phone upgrade (I miss my old phone...)  I'm glad to hear that we aren't losing any functions (that's why I miss my old phone...unlike when I upgraded to it, my new phone, while it can do new stuff and some old stuff much better, is missing a bunch of functionality that was one of the things I loved about my old phone...)

Yeah, in case the tone doesn't give it away, I'm getting old and inflexible and change-averse...but I'll deal with it.  *grin*

Been using the responsive site on my phone almost since it first went up.  And have actually enjoyed it.  No loud color changes for the holidays.  Yet.
My biggest issue is losing the last log-in and check-in dates in Cast. This is not a good thing.  I don't drop a game until it's been dead at least three months.  I don't have the recall to remember how it long it's been since I last heard from a GM.  Though, I can go into the threads to find their last post, that doesn't tell me if they are checking in and waiting for something.

Agreed, that info is indispensable and needs to come back!

This message was deleted by the user at 14:40, Mon 27 Nov 2023.

In reply to Dream Sequence (msg # 17):

Short of it is, I still see the GM last log in. I think this is more support for BBR's post, made many months (years?) back, of second class characters of GM NPCs.

I don't hide NPCs in PC space, but there's valid reason to. I know BBR has voiced PCs will outright ignore NPCs that are even so much as acting in the party, much less behaving as constituents. I think the GM log in, is the faithful reading, and the other users are left to the GM to dispense. GMs can still see this though.

I'm neutral to that change, TBH. I can understand the need for fudging log ins being "easily caught" so thus obviate it entirely. I can also see why players would like to know a player is gone, and not just lazily waiting without word. I also understand the "need" to ask being it's own haywire of frustration.

I mostly GM, and if a player asked me "Hey, when did.." player "...log in last?" I'd tell them. No reason, in my eyes, to withhold that. When I play, I will also ask a GM to just let me know, and take them at their word.  If I thought I didn't trust them, then that's a red flag on its own.

It can be a bit tedious, to have to ask, rather than see it. I can see the old site appeal. I think it revolves around the "master" of Gamemaster philosophy for RPoL rules. jase has long since used a (failing) algorithm to mimic NPC log ins, so this follows, that this is the motive. Too many players relegate NPCs to non-characters. Putting a game log in GM only hands to deviate or dispense, seems the original intent, from years back. GMs can allow all players to be GMs if they want a more open game. Those that don't, I think RPoL is giving back more of that information to GMs. I don't see this as only postive or only negative, but a trade off.

I didn't notice that  yet, as  far as the Logs ins go.. I do use that  as a tool  to glean 'ghosts' from my games who didn't have  the  manners, or guys to say " hey..I don't like this game, i quit"

 if that is broken, I'll figure out  another  way to handle that.

GMs will still see the Last Login data for their players, donsr, so no need to worry about that. And everyone can see the GM's Last Login date, after tweaks made this morning.
This message was last edited by the user at 16:04, Mon 27 Nov 2023.

Thanks for that  inform  Sunruaner.  all my games the players  know RL  comes first..if you're in a bind, all they need to  do si slip a note.. i have few people who are good  RP vets whose lives have been upended..  they are 'off on a mission" until they can return.

others..who don't like the concepts, or the RP  heavy game..just vanish? not Cool. Step up  and say 'i'm leaving"

 so yeah, thanks for that info !

 I've had formatting issues with the responsive site, when posting from a phone.

 This is what it looks like on the old website:

 This is what it looks like on the new website:

 I guess once the old website goes offline, this won't be a problem anymore. Still I thought I'd mention it.

 Aside from that, while I'm generally in team "If it ain't broke, don't go fixing it", I already see some positive in the new responsive site. It will take some getting used to, but I'm sure I'll love it soon enough.

i made  an announcements  in the games i run, that  everyone should start  using  RS on the 20th, so we can all get used to it. several of  my players  use it now  and i get  some of that odd  stuff in thirer posts.

  It should be  fine.. Facemaker  said it best, as i am old  school, and  the  change  isn't a hapy one  for me.

 However? I also have no clue  how things like this  work..Those who are  far above me in the IQ later  know what's best.

For those who didn't already know, or might have missed it, there's an ongoing New Site Design discussion thread on Responsive design/issues in the RPoL Development forum link to a message in another game, which covers a lot of the issues raised here.

EG: the problem with special characters is a result of the different character sets used by the old site (Latin) and Responsive (UTC-8), and shouldn't be a problem once we're all on Responsive.

yeah?  that  character thing  doesn't bother me too much. The meaning of the posts gets across,  In the end its something that will only last  a few weeks and then we all set sail on the new boat.

In reply to donsr (msg # 22):

The argument about disappearing players has surfaced and resurfaced so many times that it's not even funny.   I'll just point that out then change to a different topic.

I'm expecting a certain amount of confusion, aggravation, and hair pulling with the new changes.  I'm considering putting off any changes to the game that I'm running until the new year, as it might be easier to just wait a bit longer than try to sort it all out both just before and after.

As for how I feel about the change....I'm going to take a wait and see approach.

My two pfennig. I've looked at the responsive and hate it. I find it compresses lines on my phone whereas a character sheet that was legible, left to right under the regular site is now compressed into two or three lines in the responsive site. It is no longer legible and I shudder thinking about trying to edit them as a character progresses. Any option to use the old format?

Cptcthulu, in your Preferences setting (Under the 'Your Account' section of the main page), go into the 'Edit (or remove) your custom theme' section at the top right, under 'Settings'.

About 2/3 of the way down you'll see 'maximum page width (1,000 to 2,000):' and a box with a number in it. That controls the width of the interface. Try raising it all the way, and see if it helps.

In reply to cptcthulhu (msg # 28):

For character sheets specifically you can also make use of the <tt></tt> or <pre></pre> (put the opening and closing tags at the very top and bottom of the sheet respectively) to assist with formatting control.

There’s also an option in most browser settings to request the desktop version of a website which can help sometimes. Not ALL the time, though, but it’s something I use if phone or tablet isn’t properly scaling.

(My boyfriend does not have this issue though, I think he wrote a script to handle it for him)
This message was last edited by the user at 00:26, Thu 30 Nov 2023.

So, I tried to delete the character description of a NPC in a game I'm running - this is absolutely something that is possible to do on the old version of the site. However, if I try to do it on the responsive version of the site, it doesn't let me: once I open the "edit description" window, it refuses to let me leave the content empty. I had to go back to the old version of the site to be able to delete the description, and once I did, that worked perfectly. That suggests that this is some problem on the responsive version, right? Or am I missing something here?

I have this issue as well, I can not handle the responsive site on my phone, will there be a scale, or a mobile app ? -hopeful- As I have been trying to familiarize myself with it, but its harder when its acting funny on my tablet and cell.

I’m not sure if it means anything, but at least on my end, the responsive site is leaps and bounds what the old site was on my phone. No more zooming and scrolling to get the page just right where I can read it, only to have it shift on me or not stay set or some other issue giving me a headache. I can actually read things, and even on the dark theme, I can see all the colors better.

What type of phone do you have I am wondering if its possibly my phone if you don't mind saying.

ideally, it should properly scale once it fully deploys in December without having to tinker with browser settings or anything, but going fully live might also bring new mischief!

you should still be able to go into your browser settings on your phone and request the desktop site or zoom in/out, could also be fixed by clearing your cookies or your cache or something too!

(caveat: I'm not a tech person, I'm a artist/graphic designer, my boyfriend is the techno sorcerer)

Thank you so much I will check this to see if it works for me. My room-mates and I have been here forever -lol- so its just adapting to something new.

Just a reminder - if you find any errors on the Responsive site (eg deleting NPC character description), then you should post them in the ongoing New site design discussion thread on Responsive design/issues in the RPoL Development forum link to a message in another game, so jase can see/fix them.

All you need to do is put in a blank space with the spacebar, and then create the empty description. I'm not sure why it requires that - perhaps because creating the description creates a clickable link to the description that then doesn't want to be removed by deletion. I'm not sure. But a blank space will take care of the need to have something there. :)

That's the point though - having a descriptions opens the character's chosen portrait to be visible to the players; if there is no description, the link isn't there and the players can't see the NPC's avatar. This can reveal information about the NPC that I don't want the players to know about yet.

That's why I usually don't put a description until the players have met the NPC, but having the NPC already existing allows me to give the NPC a character sheet and include other details on how the NPC would be reacting to players' actions without revealing anything other than the NPC's name to the players. What happened was that I accidentally posted something in the character description instead of the character sheet, which with the changed UI is an understandable mistake to make, I feel, and then was left with the link until I went to the old site to remove it.

And yes, I could keep all that data on my PC, but aside from the fact that having it on two different storages (the site and my PC) gives me a backup if something happens that loses me access to one of the two, my point is that this is something the old version of the site allowed, and apparently the new one doesn't. It's lost functionality, which seems like something that should be fixed, shouldn't it?
This message was last edited by the user at 13:10, Fri 01 Dec 2023.

for my part, i tell the   players  to put in the description, that every one sees.. " only what the   character  will see and feel from  them when they meet"...all other info  has to  come out in RP and interaction.

 some players will put too much info up..but i let it  slide unless there  is 'no way' others  could know.

And just to point out, deleting the character description on the old site doesn't remove the link from the cast list.  You can still click on the name to get to the blank description.

There is no difference between the old site and the new one, at least in this function.

I had mentioned this in the official thread, but just in case people are monitoring this thread and not that one:

If you want to hide an NPC until it shows up, you can change its tag to 'Hidden'. That removes the character from showing in ANY list outside of a GM menu list (edit character descriptions, edit character sheets, edit character tags, etc WILL show it, but 'Character Details' and 'Cast' won't.), but you can still work on it while it remains out of player view.

In reply to SunRuanEr (msg # 43):

Heh! Thank you! I needed that info!

In reply to Skald (msg # 38):

I needed not just the reminder, but the location alert. I had felt this was the wrong "Address" but was a bit lost where was the right place. So thanks. ;)