Yes, you asked how it can be prudent.  And I never said it was a bad idea to quote  scripture to those who ask about scripture.  That's what they're asking for, just like Jesus did when people asked him what he thought about this law or that passage.

I don't understand. I asked for how speaking God's word could be prudent, and you used analogies for the definition of prudence. I wasn't asking for the definition, I know what the word means. I am still unclear on how speaking God's word to non Christians could be prudent.

Ah, I didn't understand your question, sorry.

I can think of plenty examples, as can you.  Some people go for quoting authority, in which case the bible may be considered a valid authority.  Many people look at internal consistency, or what the difference between the bible and something they know is.  I think in that case, where they're very interested in the mechanics of it all, quoting bible verse can be helpful (plus, some of the verses are very poetic, which is always a plus).  I think arguing with a LDS about why Catholicism really is okay would rely a lot on scripture.  Arguing with someone who feels Jesus is a prophet, but not God could rely on scripture.  The problem really arises when the person doesn't accept the bible in the first place, then quoting scripture is just wasting breath.

I disagree with that. I do not think scripture is a waste of breath. Scripture can change the heart. The word of God changes people's hearts. That is just an effect of it. Even if people don't understand it, it has an effect. Think of when you read from the bible daily. You know the effect it has.

But when I read it, I'm inviting it in.  There are times when having scripture quoted simply annoys me, and I feel it's inappropriate.

With God, it's not you.

Then God is mighty confusing because there are times when I simply don't want to hear scripture.

Random distraction, has anyone checked out the brick testament?  Some guy remade several books of the bible using legos.  Very well done, very funny.  Go to www.bricktestament.com

That happens to lots of people, not just you. You're supposed to read even when you don't want to. It's not because you are what makes the word work, it's the word that works on you.

I do like the lego bible stories. Very cute. I see a lot of star was lego figures being used. :)

*Bump*

Rouge, under this acceptance of what makes you Christian, Mormon's are also Christian. Mormon's do what Christian do... is it too much to ask other Christians to accept Mormons as Christian? Is doctrinal difference really that much of a hindrance, to call someone Christian or not?

What would Christ think?

Well, I would say that being Christian requires a few things.

I would say these are central to becoming a christian.


Accepting that we are sinful.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

That the price of that sin comes with a penalty.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death

But that Jesus paid the price of our sins for us
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

A common thought here is that one has to be good to go to Heaven, but Jesus took our punishment for all of our sins, not just paying the price of some sins

That salvation through Jesus is free.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.

That you need to Recieve Jesus
John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

So that would mean praying to Jesus, who can forgive all sins, to forgive you your sins, and to recieve him, which means you will follow Jesus, and sin no more.

Becoming christian is quite easy. However, many people get fooled into thinking that some sins cannot be forgiven, or that some sins are too sinful, and are not paid for by Jesus. For example, some people think if you murder, hat it is too much to forgive by Jesus.

The price paid by Jesus is for all of our sins, past present and future, and is complete. It's not a partial forgiveness, or something that says one needs to earn their placefor the rest of the trip to heaven.

I've seriously done all of the above, do you consider me a Christian yet? Not that I should care, for really all that matters is that the Savior acknowledges me as his disciple.

It just that it is really funny how Christians in general don't consider Mormons Christian.

Deg, I cannot say that LDS leads to the same Jesus I follow. LDS just has too many issues that are not in line with the bible that Jesus told us to follow to get to God.

Would you say it's ok for someone to leave the mormon church to head to an evangical church to find Jesus?
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:13, Thu 05 Oct 2006.

I think that is taking out of context the term being Christian non-denominational. I wouldn't refer someone to another church for salvation, but I consider people of other Christ centered faiths to be Christians even when they don't share the same beliefs.

When you speak denomination, that suggests similar ideas. LDs and Baptist are not similar.

I think you're suggesting that any description of Jesus Christ, regardless of how He is defined makes one christian. And that is what the "typical" christian is disagreeing with.

How many different descriptions of Jesus do you know are out there? When we say that we believe in the Jesus Christ described in the bible. How different can that be? Seriously, even Jehova Witnesses are to be considered Christian. Intead they say they are Arians. Arian was an early Christian too... to bad he was encarcelated and hindered in his atempt to spread out his doctrince, but it does show that there were difference's amond early Christians as well.

My point, LDS are Christians too... for we believe and follow Christ. If that is not considered to be a Christian, then I don't want to be a Christian and just called a follower or disciple of Christ.

I am tired of trying to make my point on this, so I will leave it at that.

No I understand what you're saying. But hopefully, it is now more clear why the "typical" christian does not feel the two groups are the same. It's the same reason you cannot feel ok in telling someone to leave the LDS for a non LDS chruch. It's a huge difference. If someone were to leave a baptist church, and go to an evangical church, people would say the only difference is likely the music, and maybe not even that. Few people would say that leaving the baptist church to go to an evangical church is not ok.

But you do realize there is a large change if you say you cannot recommend leaving the LDS church for another.

However people may say leaving a Catholic church to go to a Baptist church is NOT okay, and we're still the only true Christians (;P)

edit:  Missed the single most important word in the entire sentence.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:13, Thu 05 Oct 2006.

I take issue with this.  The LDS church follows the Bible, but perhaps just not your interpretation of the Bible.  There is a huge difference there.  We follow everything Jesus tells us to do.  He is at the head of our church and guides it today.  I don't think that other Christian denominations can make that bold statement...

LDS follow the bible, except when the other doctrines disagree with the bible.

Examples would be:
That the Bible says God is eternal.
LDS says God was once man.

Bible says Jesus was from the virgin Mary.
LDs says that Jesus was born of natural sexual activity from Mary with God(Holy Spirit?), plus previously with a goddess, and God.

Bible says that Jesus is God
LDS says that Jesus is a seperate god.

Bible says that satan was an angel
LDS say that satan is a brother to Jesus

Bible says that Jesus paid for all our sins in full.
LDS says that some sins were not paid for by Jesus, such as murder, or adultery.

I don't see that as misinterpretation.



And that's where we disagree as well.

LDS says that God is eternal.

No, it says Jesus is the only begotten son of God through Mary...it does not discuss sexual activity.  Also, we had a discussion before about the virgin issue, which may be a biblical problem, not LDS.

First, where does it say that "Jesus is God"?
Second, the LDS position is somewhat different than you represent, as described in the other thread.
Third, the words used in the Bible are the same words as those used for husband and wife to become "one."  So clearly the Bible does not say that they are one being.


LDS says that Satan was an angel.

This is not what the LDS believe.

There are many above.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:12, Thu 05 Oct 2006.

For crying outloud Rogue, where did you get your facts, from your Anti-Mormon stories that your pastor told to you? Most of the things misinterpreted above are quoted from personal beliefs from some early church members.

This is precisely the reason the Church discourages preaching personal opinions on the subject. They are not official doctrine. I strongly suggest that you pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ that he clear up your misunderstanding of the LDS Church. Tell him in prayer that you concluded that the LDS church but that you are willing to accept the answer that He has for you.

Will you do that?

Actually, I guess what I meant to say was that God has always been God, and not a man at some point in the past.
Brigham Young was a prophet of the Mormon church, and he said this,

Also, Deg agreed already that God and his goddess wife did have Jesus as a spirit child.



John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Who is the word?
John 1:14
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

To confirm this, Here's God calling Jesus God.
Hebrews 1:8
8But about the Son he says,
   "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
      and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

Maybe not so clear. I am not sure what you mean by the same use of one. It's a number.

An angel that is a brother to Jesus.
Which sins weren't paid for in full by the death of Jesus then? The bible says the debt is fully paid.

Colossians 2:13
13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Deg, these early church members you refer to were prophets who are able to change doctrine. However, all are still current, such as God not always being God, or Jesus was born from a goddess and God, or Jesus being a seperate god, or Jesus and satan being brothers, or Jesus having not paid the sin debt in full.

The bible says we should compare against scripture to verify truth.

And where does it say this in the Bible?

So you're saying Mary did not go through childbirth when he was born?

Yes, we are all spirit children of God and physical children of our parents.  There's nothing that says that spirits engage in intercourse though...
(I'm not saying yes or no to this issue, just that it would be presumptuous of me to say one way or the other.)

Ran out of time to continue...I'll have to get back to it later.

What about what Christ said? He introduced new doctrine, would you be among the Jews not to accept his revelations on the grounds that it isn't in the scriptures?