I considered that as well. What I am going with is that is a different 'genre' and the players will be catering to people who want the experience of a James Bond sim.

In reply to serrasin (msg # 10):

Yeah I buy that. I'll have to look and see what Shadowrun stuff I have, I'm not sure I have the right Edition.

[Amazing parkour escape from an explosion. Still running:]

"Thank god I've got skills! Speaking of skills, let's take a moment to talk about our sponsor, Skillshare..."
This message was last edited by the user at 17:38, Wed 22 Mar 2023.

Hmm. I hadn't even thought about getting sponsors. I was just thinking about recording runs and selling them on the BTL market. I could imagine that pushing ads in a BTL might ruin the experience, but then there might be some missions which are streamed live with ad support and others which are recorded as pure BTL? Could add some variety in the structure.

My two cents, if you run them as being streamed live with ad support your game might become metacommentary on youtube and similar video sharing services, which I personally enjoy metacommentaries or I wouldn't write all the games I write.

But if it's something you don't want, might want to steer clear of it for the most part if not at all. That being said, it could also be a separate metacommentary on the nature of corporate owned cyberware.
This message was last edited by the user at 18:24, Wed 22 Mar 2023.

Live with metacommentary would personally be more interesting, as you're trying to keep engagement up.

Or have it where you are torn between options, and play up getting the audience to vote.

"Do I sneak inside, or blow my way in with explosives? Just 1¥ to vote, but you only have 2 minutes! Vote now!"

Well it would certainly have an impact of the feel of the game and would probably push the game further into pink mohawk style gameplay. Once we get into the realm of driving up the side of a skyscraper with gecko-grip motorcycles in formation, then we've gone off the reservation a bit.

Then I guess the apt question here is what sort of reservation borders so to speak are you looking for?

There's also the "artifice" thing. Like, if I was part of a company doing live-action epic stunt scenes, and there was nothing particularly actiony going on at the Space Needle or the Burj Dubai or something, I would probably expect part of my fight team to act as "opposition" and stage something there, eventually.

The idea of, say, a completely fake "heist" taking place in Stuck's Carnival casino (and the management finding out about it, and not being happy about it) would be different.

All that to say that the audience might want to see that drive-up-the-skyscraper stuff and the problem becomes more 1) logistical/technical (how do we do it?) and 2) extralegal ("We didn't actually have a permit. Book it!")
This message was last edited by the user at 19:28, Wed 22 Mar 2023.

That is the question.

When I originally pictured the concept, its more or less normal Black Trenchcoat or Mirrorshades, with more vivid colors with stunts and novel action being encouraged. The content would be scrubbed and sold after the fact as BTL so the misison itself wouldnt be impacted nor would there be direct interaction with the customer/user.

At the other end of the spectrum where the concept is taken to its logical extreme would be a live stream event with sponsor callouts and viewer voting. However, we all know how that would play out; stream viewers would always vote for explosions over guile and stealth. On top of that, security teams might check in on the streams and we get situations of when Asmon played Final Fantasy Online.

I am intrigued with the idea of being able to have a variety of missions. Some more for recording BTL which are a bit more serious. However, between those jobs the team could stream some jobs which dont require as much professionalism and they can let loose a bit more.

One does not simply stream their way into Ares.  Right?

And, weirdly, this ties into a film essay I watched today, where they made the point that when one production does a new technique, there's an inevitable pile-on where people do similar things faster, louder and cheaper. That probably also means "more risky".

Actually, it's entirely possible that some of the work the team is doing would be similar to White Hat work; where you're testing for flaws in a friendly system, and where the bosses consider any losses as acceptable collateral.   In this case, you could easily do a live-stream event; but also move the team to different locations around the world.

"And in this week's event, we're in sunny Rio de Janeiro.  It's bikinis, tan lines, and guns! guns! guns!"

It also depends on how close to the script the team would be expected to follow.  Maybe they're expected to sneak in through the sewers, or blow up one of the buildings.

Not everything has to be the cranked to 11,000 BTL.  It would make sense that there's a market for live/"improvised" sim sense and such which may be more staged, sponsored, or commissioned.

Might even be interesting to have the PCs have completely different personas.  Ones they adopt when it's very underground/serious/black market BTL runs and ones that are more "public" that create content that's for a wider audience and/or takes jobs that can be a bit more free wheeling.

Ultimately serrasin, it seems there is interest in this style of SR5 game.

The question is, where on the Black Trenchcoat to Pink Mohawk do you want it to be, so prospective players know what they would like to apply with, if they lean that way?

I agree. I honestly wasnt expecting this much discussion, but I'm glad to have received so much feedback. It will help me better define and concept the game a bit. I think that I would be open to having new players with the expectation that they understand/read enough of the rules to pilot their own character. I dont mind working with people, but I just wont have the mental bandwidth to also be a mentor or teacher.

I do still think that starting as prime runner character generation is the way to go. Nobody is going to pay to watch some gutter punks knock over a Stuffer Shack. Also, some of the fancy gun play and such may require deeper/varied skill pools.
This message was last edited by the user at 20:49, Wed 22 Mar 2023.

Whichever shade you go, you're going to get interest. However, considering the baseline concept, you don't want to go full Pink Mohawk, and I can't blame you. An excellent way to describe it would be to liken it to a style you're looking for (Like the Bourne Identity, the Gray Man, Equilibrium, etc.) because I'm guessing the Matrix is too far.

A few sources of potential inspiration.
Bourne Identity
Shoot Em Up
Atomic Blonde
James Bond
Matrix Lobby Scene
anything Jackie Chan
Triple X
Oceans Eleven (because if you cant do it with style, then why do it at all?)

Ok, I think that puts me out, but I understand. I'll have to look over it again to see though. Never actually played SR, but I have some SR stuff.

In reply to serrasin (msg # 26):

I was actually thinking more like Gamer or Death Race.   There's also the whole Desert Wars thing, so there's already precedent for what you're thinking.

In the case of Gamer, there's the thing where someone could pay a bit more (in addition to paying to watch the whole thing go down) to "jump" into one of the team's direct feed.

Personally, I think the threat is less "Oh, no, the viewers are making us do stupid drek!" and more "Oh know, corp security has turned in, and know literally every move we are making before we make it because their decker is the one doing all the votes because he's hacked the system." I can't imagine this would make for a very believable game.

stream sniping is one of several potential threats. The simple fact of the matter is that any team who tries to get past a half competent corpsec squad while running a digital tether with enough bitrate for a stream is going to have a very short broadcast.

Hence why, recording them, then selling them as BTLs makes a lot more sense

While we're discussing inspiration: *Strange Days*.

With this many posts in the thread, it should be clear by now whether, or not, there is sufficient interest in this idea to warrant developing it into a game.  Please save all further discussion for the game itself, created by serrasin (should they decide to go ahead with it), and linked to in the post immediately following this one.

Thank you.

link to another game

Lets see where this goes. I am still working on the game preparation, but may as well let players start contemplating their concepts.