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LEVEL UP!

Posted by Game MasterFor group 0
Game Master
GM, 1798 posts
Storyteller
Eclipse d20
Thu 22 Aug 2019
at 03:40
  • msg #1

LEVEL UP!

LEVEL UP

All, you have achieved 2nd level. Congrats!

I will be working to compile your characters into a nice looking PDF.

As the character creation guidelines, everyone should have a base of 30 CP this level - Level base 24 + Bonus Feat 6 = 30. Please don't forget about duties or restrictions which add or subtract from this total.

You are required to have:
  • 06 CP | BAB of minimum of +1 (Min +1 at level 2)
  • 03 CP | +1 to a Save (+2 Points Minimum by this level)
  • 02 CP | +2 Skill Points (If you have Fast Learner for 2 Skill Points this is covered, or have at least 4 Skill Points purchased.)
  • 00 CP | d4 HD


If you meet or exceed the minimum required you can ignore that.


You automatically get a d4 HD which you may upgrade up to a: d6 (2), d8 (4), d10 (6), d12 (8), or a d20 (16).
John D'Oh
player, 103 posts
Chemist and Forgemaster
Thu 22 Aug 2019
at 15:48
  • msg #2

LEVEL UP!

Are we buying +1 BAB for 6 cp, or a level of Warcraft for 6 cp? Are they the same?
Gerad Waelhlem
player, 138 posts
Channeler Of Mysteries
Occult Dabbler
Thu 22 Aug 2019
at 16:26
  • msg #3

LEVEL UP!

In reply to John D'Oh (msg # 2):

They're the same.

And even I cannot think of another fifty words on that!
John D'Oh
player, 104 posts
Chemist and Forgemaster
Thu 22 Aug 2019
at 16:56
  • msg #4

LEVEL UP!

At level 2, we are capped at 5 levels of Warcraft?
Gerad Waelhlem
player, 139 posts
Channeler Of Mysteries
Occult Dabbler
Thu 22 Aug 2019
at 17:09
  • msg #5

LEVEL UP!

I think so - that's the general (Level + 3) cap on most things - but only the game master can say for sure.
Game Master
GM, 1800 posts
Storyteller
Eclipse d20
Thu 22 Aug 2019
at 20:36
  • msg #6

LEVEL UP!

Hi,

Yes, I'm following the Adventurer's Framwork design that is meant to keep more "traditional" power curves in line with more typical D20 style games. So, the weakest characters at level 20 will have +20 to Saves (60 CP), +10 Warcraft (60 CP), and 40 Skill ranks (40 CP). How you choose the spend the remainder is up to you.

The cap is per the framework - Nothing can be higher than Level +3 unless you speak to me about purchasing the cap breaker. But in all seriousness, your points are spent wisely in other categories. You don't need raw Warcraft to get better attack bonuses.

Thanks,
John D'Oh
player, 105 posts
Chemist and Forgemaster
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 02:56
  • msg #7

LEVEL UP!

Are the Weapon Specialization, Cleave, and Leap Attack Feats purchasable with Eclipse? 6 cp for each?
Raven
player, 65 posts
Dark Stranger
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 02:59
  • msg #8

LEVEL UP!

They are, other than leap attack they are largely less effective than things you can do with Eclipse.
Gerad Waelhlem
player, 141 posts
Channeler Of Mysteries
Occult Dabbler
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 06:46
  • msg #9

LEVEL UP!

Well...

Weapon Specialization: +2 Damage with a particular weapon. Feat (6 CP). Or Improved Augmented Bonus (Adds (Att Mod) to (Str Mod) for melee combat purposes, Specialized in a particular weapon type (6 CP), or use Martial Arts to raise the base damage of our weapon, or Augment Attack or any of several other ways.

Leaping Attack: Doubled Damage (When Charging, 6 CP), Corrupted for Increased Effect (Triple Damage) / only applies to the part of the damage derived from Expertise (6 CP) - or you could just inflict double (all) damage on a charge (6 CP).

Cleave is generally built with Reflex Training.

There are, indeed, lots of ways.
John D'Oh
player, 106 posts
Chemist and Forgemaster
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 07:55
  • msg #10

LEVEL UP!

Most of what you just wrote is gibberish to me.
Improved Augmented bonus is adding a secondary attribute bonus to str bonus when determining weapon damage? Specialized to a particular weapon makes it 3 cp?

Leaping attack is NOT double damage when charging, sir. It adds +100% of damage done by Power Attack under two conditions: you must travel at least 10' with the jump, AND you must land in a square that threatens your target. Only then do you get increased damage. So what are the mechanics and the cost?

What the hell is Expertise and Reflex training?
John D'Oh
player, 107 posts
Chemist and Forgemaster
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 08:22
  • msg #11

LEVEL UP!

If I want to emulate the Tome of Battle maneuvers that allowed Concentration checks in place of Will or Reflex saves, can I do that in Eclipse? Since I don't see Concentration as a Skill, what skill would be used as the faux SAVE?
Game Master
GM, 1801 posts
Storyteller
Eclipse d20
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 08:35
  • msg #12

LEVEL UP!

Endurance replaced Concentration, and that's accomplished by Finesse (Swap something for something else). Probably specialized for reduced cost (Only while in a specific stance) and maybe corrupted (Stance are limited). But I'm not up on Tome of Battles so would have to review it. But the price difference is only 1 CP.

Does it fit the concept of your character though?

Expertise and Reflex Training are both Eclipse abilities.

Reflex training allows you to take an additional action or actions under a certain circumstance. If an opponent triggers an Attack of Opportunity, then I can take another attack (Combat Reflexes).

As long as the GM allows for it.

In my high powered game, I allowed any enemy dropped by an attack to trigger a psychic skill use of Teleport to short jump to another opponent to finish off an attack sequence or gain a free attack up to DEX MOD times in a given round. Ah, the fun days with Kleptomaniac Rednecks...

Point is John, chances are with a good explanation, it can be built in one or more ways to get the desired result.
John D'Oh
player, 108 posts
Chemist and Forgemaster
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 08:48
  • msg #13

LEVEL UP!

In several 3.5 games, John is a Fighter with the Dungeoncrasher ability. Since I don't think you can do that with Eclipse, I'm settling for ToB to fill out his repertoire without his gaining actual MAGIC.
Game Master
GM, 1802 posts
Storyteller
Eclipse d20
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 09:05
  • msg #14

LEVEL UP!

Uh, you don't think you can?

Well, if that's a self-imposed limit you wish to take, then sure, John can't have Dungeoncrasher cause of a psychological block... But for anyone else, you just need to build it as long as it's appropriate to the game and the GM approves it.

What does it actually do?
Game Master
GM, 1803 posts
Storyteller
Eclipse d20
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 09:40
  • msg #15

LEVEL UP!

Dungeon Crasher - replaces the feat at level 2 and level 6 for a fighter...

For the price of one feat you get:
+2 Competence Bonus to AC and Saves vs. Traps
+5 Competence Bonus to Break Doors, Walls, or other breakables
If you bull rush an opponent into a solid surface (Wall) you deal 4d6+STR damage

At 6th level you sacrifice another feat to essential double the bonuses above.


Sounds like HULK smash... The entire package will be specialized and corrupted (Only limited circumstances with limited application).

06 | Innate Enchantment w/ +5 Competence Checks vs Structures (1,400), Replicate Greatsword for 2d6 damage (1,400) only for bull rush and only if the opponent stops at a wall, +2 Competence Bonus to Saves (1,400) limited to Traps only.
06 | Double Damage specifically for the Greatsword damage and only for Bull Rush Maneuver ending in the wall.
---
12 CP total, dropped to 4 CP after the Specialized and Corrupted modifiers.

That's with my brain shutting down for the night, so it might be possible to do that differently.

For another 6 CP, it'd likely be a 2-3 CP immunity against stacking those specific effects and applying them again for the doubling effect. So again, within the realm of possibility.
This message was last edited by the GM at 09:41, Fri 23 Aug 2019.
John D'Oh
player, 109 posts
Chemist and Forgemaster
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 16:11
  • msg #16

LEVEL UP!

Almost the same. At lvl 2, damage is 4d6 + (2× STR). At lvl 6 it is 8d6 + (3× Str).

Seeing as I already have something like 8 cp invested in Innate Enchantments, can I still do what you've stated at the same costs?
This message was last edited by the player at 16:12, Fri 23 Aug 2019.
Game Master
GM, 1805 posts
Storyteller
Eclipse d20
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 18:18
  • msg #17

LEVEL UP!

It's a 4 CP package. You'd just buy the package.
Gerad Waelhlem
player, 142 posts
Channeler Of Mysteries
Occult Dabbler
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 18:46
  • msg #18

LEVEL UP!

Well lets see...

Augmented Bonus (6 CP) adds a second attribute modifier to a particular value in a specific situation. "Improved" (+6 CP) makes it apply to a fairly common situation - such as melee combat. Since you only want it for a particular weapon, the 12 CP cost is Specialized in that weapon - reducing it to (6 CP). Flavor text might be "with canny insight you seek out weak points in your opponents defenses" (use Int or Wis Mod), "Your mighty endurance lets you put the maximum effort into every blow" (use Con Mod), or whatever you like (for Cha or Dex mod).

Martial Arts is the usual way to represent skill with particular weapons - whether armed or unarmed. Since it's a skill, it doesn't have to cost CP and can be made even cheaper with Adept.

Expertise allows you to take a pair of values and shift bonuses back and forth between them. For example, reducing your Attack Bonus to add to Damage or vice versa (Power Attack), or your attack bonus to add to your armor class or vice versa (Combat Expertise), or Reflex Saves to add to Int-Based Skills or vice versa (you get distracted and aren't paying attention when you concentrate - or can focus on evasion and forget about thinking).

"Leap Attack" lets you combine a jump with a charge against an opponent. If you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, you deal +100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat. If you use this tactic with a two-handed weapon, you instead triple the extra damage from Power Attack."

So the Eclipse version uses Double Damage when Charging (Eclipse generally doesn't care how you move, so you can presumably make Charging attacks by running, leaping, flying, or even by diving onto something) (6 CP), which would double all damage when you use a charging attack. We're Corrupting it for Increased Effect (Triple Damage) / effect only applies to the extra damage from Expertise. Except for not caring if if you're using a two-handed weapon or not (this version triples the damage either way) the net effect is identical to Leap Attack.

Honestly, however, what you want is probably just <i>Expertise </i>(Attack Bonus and Damage), Specialized and Corrupted for Triple Effect / Only in Melee, only with your Chosen Weapon (6 CP) - which lets you trade in up to +5 worth of attack bonus for +3 Damage per point of Attack Bonus traded in. If that's what you want, there's no need to fool around with Leap Attack or prerequisites to get it.

As for concentration checks in lieu of saves... the quickest and easiest way is to take Luck with +8 Bonus Uses, Specialized and Corrupted / only for Saving Throws, only to "take 20" in advance rather than rerolling, effective result is only what you get on a skill check, not an automatic success (6 CP). Now, admittedly that's limited uses - but it doesn't call for being in a particular stance or having a particular maneuver readied and nine times a day ought to be enough for any given saving throw.

Reflex Training and Opportunist are the general "I get to do something out of the normal sequence of events" powers. For example, "Great Cleave" can be built as "Opportunist / I get to make another attack on any target within reach when one of my attacks drops an opponent" (6 CP). There are no prerequisites, and you can make it cheaper = although since you will almost always be using your chosen weapon, "Only with my chosen weapon" would probably only count as a Corruption.

Dungeon Crasher can be built in various ways, the cheapest is probably as a Martial Art:

Dungeon Crasher Style (Str-Based):

Requires: Str 16+, BAB 2+, Desire to smash stuff.
Possible Basic Techniques (may take all of them):
  • Defenses I-IV, Specialized for Double Effect and Corrupted for Increased Effect (Applies to Saves too) / Only versus Traps.
  • Power I-IV, Specialized and Corrupted for Triple Effect / only to add +3 per level to the damage from Bull Rushing someone into a wall.

Possible Master Techniques (4 picks Maximum);
  • Breaking (Add your Dungeon Smasher skill total to your rolls to break things).
  • Improved Bull Rush: You no longer suffer an Attack Of Opprotunity when you Bull Rush and gain a +4 bonus on your strength check to push back a defender.
  • "Sneak Attack" variant I-III, Specialized and Corrupted for Increased Effect/only with a successful Bull Rush maneuver ending in a wall to smash the opponent into.
  • Mind Like Moon, Specialized for Increased Effect / if the user is Surprised, he or she may roll initiative normally, but the only action they may take in the surprise round is to attempt to Bull Rush an opponent. If all opponents are too far away to be Bull Rushed, the effect is up to a full move towards them.

Possible Possible Occult Techniques (4 Picks Maximum):
  • Inner Strength x2 (Provides 6 or 12 (if taken twice) phantom "constituition points" to power other occult abilities with.
  • Light Foot, Specialized for Double Effect (Spend 1 Con to gain a +60 to Leap or run across water, grease, or other difficult terrain without difficulty) / only to Bull Rush a target.
  • Ki Block (Spend 2 Con to try to completely negate an incoming attack, requires some checks though).

So, if you have a Str Mod of +4 (guessing from the Combat Thread) spending 5 SP or CP on the "Dungeon Crasher Style" would get you a total of +9 and five techniques.
  • Defenses I gets you to +2 on AC and Saves versus Traps. (Can go up to +8 with three more picks).
  • Power II gets you +6 on damage from smashing someone into a wall. (Can go up to +12 with two more picks).
  • Sneak Attack I gets you +3d6 damage when Bull Rushing someone into a wall. (Can go up to +9d6, with another two picks).
  • Breaking.

This doesn't precisely match of course: the bonus damage for smashing someone is +3d6+6 rather than 4d6 and your ability to smash stuff gets a +9 bonus rather than a +5 - but both of those are improvements. Another +6 Skill Points or Character Points while going up in level (plus any improvements in your Strength Modifier) will get you at least three more techniques. If you invest them in +2 dice more Sneak Attack and +1 Defenses, your total bonuses become:
  • +4 to AC and Saves versus Traps
  • +15 (or more) to Break Stuff.
  • Bull Rush into Walls for 9d6+6 plus Strength (Could be +12 if your Str has gone up enough to get another pick).

Plus, of course, there's room for further expansion with more skill points.

Now there is a small limitation; you can only use one Martial Art at a time - but switching is a free action and that can be gotten around with an Immunity anyway.

In general, Eclipse gives Fighter-types a variety of upgrades on their toys.
John D'Oh
player, 110 posts
Chemist and Forgemaster
Fri 23 Aug 2019
at 20:09
  • msg #19

LEVEL UP!

I got a couple of takeaways from that.

Martial Arts are skills, like Gadgetry. The final bonus of +9 from 5 ranks and Str 18 gives +9 bonus to 5 maneuvers (one for each cp invested). Each maneuver is a single tier of a technique, which can be stacked.

At 1st level I took Power Attack for 6 cp. It would have been better if I had taken Expertise because that covers PA, combat Expertise, and similar swap-bonus feats. But if I made the exchange in Feats, how do I account for the double damage effect for using my 2h weapon? Buy Expertise for 6cp, then buy it again, corrupted/specialized to give a multiplied effect under special circumstances?

What does Luck do, because I dont understand how it subs for saving throws?

What is the cost in cp of a Martial Arts style? Am I limited to 5 techniques/tiers due to the level +3 cap?
This message was last edited by the player at 23:40, Fri 23 Aug 2019.
John D'Oh
player, 112 posts
Chemist and Forgemaster
Sat 24 Aug 2019
at 01:27
  • msg #20

LEVEL UP!

For the occult techniques, are you actually taking Con damage to perform them, or do you have a ki pool equivalent to your Con score?

I'm thinking to spend 5 cp on Dungeon crasher Martial technique, maybe 4 cp on a martial stance or maneuver.

 The Luck thing costs 6 cp for 9 uses, correct? What does 4 cp get you?

Can Leap attack as you present it, be bought for only 4 cp since it is Specialized for favored weapon, triple damage used in conjunction with Expertise (Corruption)?

What does Light Foot do? Add movement? Can it be specialized/corrupted to offset Armor penalties, or does it go beyond that?
Gerad Waelhlem
player, 143 posts
Channeler Of Mysteries
Occult Dabbler
Sat 24 Aug 2019
at 01:56
  • msg #21

LEVEL UP!

Well, Martial Arts aren't occult skills - any combative character can take them without extra cost. You get a Technique at every odd rank. So with a +9, you'd get a technique at ranks 1, 3, 4, 7, and 9, for a total of five.

Expertise does require that you pick a pair of values. It's just the generalized "I can trade bonuses around between two items, pick them" effect. Power attack is the equivalent of one version. The Eclipse version isn't limited to weapons - a mage might be able to decrease Dex to increase Int by intense focus or something - so it doesn't distinguish between weapons. You can limit it to either decrease the cost or increase the effect you get though. Power Attack only goes one way - it doesn't let you reduce damage to increase your Attack Bonus - so it's Specialized (only one way). That could either reduce to cost from 6 CP to 3 CP or double the effect, so it's +2 damage for every -1 on the attack regardless of weapon type.

Luck can be used in two ways: you can either "take 20" on a roll in advance or reroll a roll you don't like. At base it's once per day. Bonus Uses adds +4 more uses per time its taken. This version is restricted so that instead of "taking 20" on a save (and automatically succeeding) you have to settle for a skill check result instead (since that's what you asked about).

Martial Arts styles are just skills. There are a bunch of predefined ones, but you can make your own. With predefined ones - or ones you can convince the GM are reasonable enough that someone else invented them and so there's been time to polish them up - you add an attribute modifier. You are limited to (Level + 3) skill points unless you take skill boosting feats or abilities (like any other skill).

The Inner Strength Occult Technique provides the equivalent of Ki Points (which is why it's commonly bought first). You can also buy Mana to power them with, or use Body Fuel to power them with hit points, or various other tricks. For most characters Occult Techniques are a fairly limited resource unless they invest more than a few skill points in Martial Arts.

4 CP of Luck in that combination would get you Luck with +4 bonus uses - so five times a day.

That version of Leap Attack could be specialized to work with a single weapon, in which cast it will only cost 3 CP.

Light Foot - as specialized in this instance - can either give you a +60 bonus to a Jump or let you perform a Bull Rush over unsuitable terrain - such as water, grease, or rough terrain. It doesn't offset armor penalties though. The base version has an option to boost movement, which would probably offset armor penalties to movement, but the ability to Bull Rush over a lake, or by hopping from boulder to boulder across a field of jagged rocks suited this style better.
John D'Oh
player, 113 posts
Chemist and Forgemaster
Sat 24 Aug 2019
at 04:05
  • msg #22

LEVEL UP!

Martial Arts is a technique at every odd rank? At level 2, I can only have a max of 5 ranks, which means 3?
Gerad Waelhlem
player, 144 posts
Channeler Of Mysteries
Occult Dabbler
Sat 24 Aug 2019
at 04:07
  • msg #23

LEVEL UP!

In reply to John D'Oh (msg # 22):

It does include your attribute bonus if one applies - thus the note that I guessed your strength bonus at +4, giving you a total score of 9 and five techniques.
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