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23:18, 28th March 2024 (GMT+0)

Portrait Submissions.

Posted by Shannara
Shannara
moderator, 3865 posts
When in doubt,
frolic!
Thu 27 Aug 2020
at 15:24

Re: Portrait Submissions

A suggestion - when I moved portraits, what I would do is put up a placeholder PC  (ie, a silhouette with 'use FFD112' as text over the silhouette to direct users to the new pic') and then replace the placeholder eventually with a new pic so that there were no gaps in the gallery.

Of course, this will effect games that are no longer in use, as players have left the game or may never go back and change the portrait, but it IS a potential solution.

Just offering it up, should the current portrait editor(s) decide on reorganization.
Morgan Coldsoul
member, 313 posts
29+ years RP experience
I'll forget again later
Thu 27 Aug 2020
at 16:30
  • msg #353

Re: Portrait Submissions

Thanks, Shannara; that's a great idea, actually, should we need to use it.

WRT to moving portraits around: AFAIK, the system calls to file addresses by name, not to a location (or "slot") with variable contents. Warrax does the uploads and can correct me if I'm wrong.

WRT duplicates: Images are considered to be dupes when there's no real discernible difference between the two. Any portrait of the same person, character, object, etc. from a different angle, with different lighting, and so on is treated as a totally discrete entity. Dupes usually result from someone sending the exact same file in (typically one they've already modified, themselves, down to 100 x 100 and < 5kb) multiple times. Perhaps because they didn't see that their first submission was uploaded, or maybe because it wound up in a category they didn't check, they submit it again. Using that example, I might look at it and not realize I've already passed that exact picture along to Warrax the month before last, so it winds up getting added a second time.

WRT portrait gender: If we consider moving, for example, a feminine portrait out of a masculine gallery or vice-versa, then I assure you it's only to agree with a known gender identity. That is, if somehow a picture of person A, who definitively and publicly identifies himself as male, is spotted in female/modern/rugged and can be unambiguously recognized as that person, then we might conceivably move it out of respect for person A. That's why we might take a recommendation under advisement, but it's not something we're doing on the regular.
jase
admin, 3776 posts
Cogito, ergo procuro.
Carpe stultus!
Fri 28 Aug 2020
at 09:25

Re: Portrait Submissions

The saved portrait ("fmg123") relates to the image being use ("fmg123.jpg").  There's no mapping done as there's a direct correlation between the portrait name and the file name.  So moving images around messes with the reference.

Additionally remember that the portrait in use is saved as part of the thread.  When you view a character's post it doesn't look up their current portrait (bio or even posts) -- it references (within the data of the post) the portrait used at the time of the post.

This allows for characters to change/develop over time while not retroactively suddenly changing every single old post.  More importantly it allows for characters to be removed from the game without suddenly losing all the post information.
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 324 posts
Tue 1 Sep 2020
at 15:53
  • msg #355

Re: Portrait Submissions

*eagerly awaits August's portrait upload!*
Shannara
moderator, 3868 posts
When in doubt,
frolic!
Tue 1 Sep 2020
at 16:09

Re: Portrait Submissions

A small announcement, just in case:

The male portraits (at least) will be moving from my web hosting to rpol's in the next few days.  Hopefully the move will be done before my hosting expires, but just in case it doesn't ... don't worry.  The male portraits will be back up as soon as jase has time IF there is any downtime.

I've enjoyed hosting the male gallery, but I no longer need any sort of website myself, and I just don't have the desire to maintain it as any active site should be maintained for security purposes.

updated - the move is complete and there will be no outage
This message was last edited by the user at 21:55, Fri 04 Sept 2020.
Morgan Coldsoul
member, 314 posts
29+ years RP experience
I'll forget again later
Tue 1 Sep 2020
at 17:41
  • msg #357

Re: Portrait Submissions

Thank you so much for hosting it all this time, Shannara! <3
Warrax
subscriber, 279 posts
Tue 1 Sep 2020
at 20:42
  • msg #358

Re: Portrait Submissions

Quick update. We have all the portraits for this last cycle. I'm moving, so it's taking a touch longer than I'd like, but they will be up shortly, in case anyone was wondering.

Sorry for the delay!
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 325 posts
Tue 1 Sep 2020
at 20:56
  • msg #359

Re: Portrait Submissions

Sweet - thanks for the heads up! Have a safe move. =)
sacmarvelrpg
member, 4 posts
Fri 4 Sep 2020
at 19:47
  • msg #360

Re: Portrait Submissions

Looking forward to it-- and many thanks!
Warrax
subscriber, 280 posts
Thu 10 Sep 2020
at 15:31
  • msg #361

Re: Portrait Submissions

Just a quick update.  Our process is temporarily a little different now that portraits have been moved to a different location, so there will be a further delay for at least this month. That said, portraits are queued for upload and I'll let everyone know once that happens, and then again once things get back to normal.

Apologies for the delay, this won't last for too long.
sacmarvelrpg
member, 5 posts
Sun 13 Sep 2020
at 22:39
  • msg #362

Re: Portrait Submissions

In reply to Warrax (msg # 361):

No problem, thanks for the heads up.
drew0500
member, 200 posts
D&D Gamer
Eclipse Classless
Mon 14 Sep 2020
at 00:27
  • msg #363

Re: Portrait Submissions

Is it a simple ftp process or something far more complicated? I'd imagine ftp would be an easy upload and managing it would be simple. Especially if the portraits are already conformed to the specs.
Warrax
subscriber, 281 posts
Mon 14 Sep 2020
at 02:15
  • msg #364

Re: Portrait Submissions

The new portraits are now up!

Female
 - 1 Warrior
 - 5 Casual

Male
 - 1 Demihuman
 - 1 Rugged
 - 1 Sci-fi Human

Neutral
 - 1 Monster
 - 1 Demihuman
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 331 posts
Mon 14 Sep 2020
at 02:30
  • msg #365

Re: Portrait Submissions

Danke, sirs! =)
Sotalia
member, 189 posts
Mon 14 Sep 2020
at 02:57
  • msg #366

Re: Portrait Submissions

In reply to Warrax (msg # 364):

My friend sent in a portrait which didn't make it into this upload. If it was because she missed the deadline, does that mean it will make it into the next upload? Or should she resubmit the portrait?
Morgan Coldsoul
member, 315 posts
29+ years RP experience
I'll forget again later
Mon 14 Sep 2020
at 03:00
  • msg #367

Re: Portrait Submissions

If you miss the submission deadline, then your portrait will be part of the next batch, as long as there were no other problems with it (like leaving off your RPoL username, etc.).
Warrax
subscriber, 283 posts
Wed 30 Sep 2020
at 19:41
  • msg #368

Re: Portrait Submissions

Latest round of portraits are up.

Female

3x Casual
1x Sci-fi Human

Neutral

1x Demihuman

Male

1x 17th Century
1x 20th Century
2x Casual
1x Gangster
1x Sci-fi Alien
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 335 posts
Wed 30 Sep 2020
at 20:16
  • msg #369

Re: Portrait Submissions

1x Male Soldier, also. =)

Thanks for getting those in!
Warrax
subscriber, 284 posts
Wed 30 Sep 2020
at 20:18
  • msg #370

Re: Portrait Submissions

Ah yes, the Captain America portrait, thank you for catching that this was also added :)
tibiotarsus
member, 193 posts
Hopepunk with a shovel
Wed 30 Sep 2020
at 23:33
  • msg #371

Re: Portrait Submissions

Not to be a killjoy on the perfect portrait front, but maybe there should be some kind of notice somewhere to make sure newcomers don't think they have to submit their own specific portrait to play? Only the latest few casual ladies are really similar to the ones on the first page of the gallery in terms of "Hollywood average" mid-20s Caucasians rather than useful-for-everyone additions like girls, old shopkeep types and everyone we don't have already.

Could just be people who couldn't be bothered to check or who find a nose tilted a bit differently to be a dealbreaker, but eh...it's just vaguely frustrating as a GM when you have to make everyone's mothers have "a young-looking face", for instance, or not make proper NPC slots for some people who can't be represented by a pretty white twentysomething (and by the time an appropriate portrait clears the system the game might've moved on from their entire town). </ramble>

A related thought - Are users encouraged to submit tags with new portraits (as suggestions) so they could be copied over and searchable at once, or would that not actually help at all with how the upload system works?
Warrax
subscriber, 285 posts
Wed 30 Sep 2020
at 23:54
  • msg #372

Re: Portrait Submissions

People are encouraged to submit portraits for all different variables. We're not really selecting for what people want to submit on that front, nor will we begin to do so. Diversity has been something of a challenge over time for sure, but people will submit what they want to and that's what we've got to work with. There is also the fact that there are portraits scattered all about with what you want. The act of cleaning up the entire library of portraits isn't anything likely to happen any time soon, so ear-marking portraits for future use is of some value.

Good thoughts. Nothing we haven't run into before, but a perpetual trial for GMs and players alike, to be sure. The best thing is to just start submitting portraits of various sorts even if you don't need them for a specific character. Eventually, the selection will improve.
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 336 posts
Thu 1 Oct 2020
at 00:38
  • msg #373

Re: Portrait Submissions

If you're patient enough to dig through literally every portrait, you can find just about anything you might want. Just about.

...unless you want a specific person, because that's the person you envision for the character. It's shocking sometimes to realize just how many portraits there are of some people, while there are none (or practically none) of others. I can't vouch for why other people submit portraits, but if I'm submitting one it's usually because I want Specific Person X and there's either nothing of them at all, or what does exist of them is the wrong look - by which I don't mean 'bad lighting' but something like 'wrong hair color or style for the character' (very common with female celebrities, given the frequency of hair color changes...) or 'obviously incorrect age for the character'. The racial and age-range diversity of the portrait collection has really started to grow since submissions started up again. Mixed-race are still a bit more scarce, but I have faith that will grow too.

With regards to NPCs, though, tibio... if you just need a quick reference portrait for an NPC and can't find one/don't have time to submit one, it works pretty well to slap up a 100x100 image (that you host) with a left-align at the top of their posts. It's not a legit 'portrait', but it's close enough for government work. =)
Morgan Coldsoul
member, 316 posts
29+ years RP experience
I'll forget again later
Thu 1 Oct 2020
at 00:46
  • msg #374

Re: Portrait Submissions

In reply to SunRuanEr (msg # 373):

That's often what I do for temporary NPCs who don't warrant a persistent profile, or for people who demand a really specific portrait that hasn't made it into the gallery yet.
Warrax
subscriber, 286 posts
Thu 1 Oct 2020
at 01:09
  • msg #375

Re: Portrait Submissions

SunRuanEr:
If you're patient enough to dig through literally every portrait, you can find just about anything you might want. ...  It's shocking sometimes to realize just how many portraits there are of some people, while there are none (or practically none) of others.


Yup, that's certainly true. They do come in waves, too, based on what's popular at the time (on and off RPOL).

quote:
The racial and age-range diversity of the portrait collection has really started to grow since submissions started up again. Mixed-race are still a bit more scarce, but I have faith that will grow too.


Yeah, and we're quite happy about that, as it happen.s

quote:
With regards to NPCs, though, tibio... if you just need a quick reference portrait for an NPC and can't find one/don't have time to submit one, it works pretty well to slap up a 100x100 image (that you host) with a left-align at the top of their posts. It's not a legit 'portrait', but it's close enough for government work. =)


Yes, not enough people use the Description section to its best ability, and you can embed images directly into posts from time to time in order to reinforce a particular actor or visualization for your character as well.
tibiotarsus
member, 194 posts
Hopepunk with a shovel
Thu 1 Oct 2020
at 08:18
  • msg #376

Re: Portrait Submission

Ha! I talk about polite notices in case the problem isn't bias and y'all go straight for the elephant in the room. All right, I'm not saying to do this, but I will point out that the "super-similar portraits get rejected" rule could be used if the site wanted to trim the ratio of 10,000 blondes to 1 black teen (I'm not sure there is a younger black teen, unless that Indian-looking girl is one - certainly if you're out in Historical, you're stuffed). I assume that would be too much work per month and too much wailing from those who need the eyebrows "right", though, so that observation is just pointing out that a systemic solution is possible, in the same way you're pointing out that if the 2 GMs that aren't playing off-the-peg Eurofantasy do enough shovel work they could maybe catch up in a decade or so. Sure. Both these things are true, but we're both doing stuff voluntarily. I get it. Just saying. Not a dig.

Warrax:
Good thoughts. Nothing we haven't run into before, but a perpetual trial for GMs and players alike, to be sure. The best thing is to just start submitting portraits of various sorts even if you don't need them for a specific character. Eventually, the selection will improve.


This is allowed now? I always had the impression the rules meant you had to submit portraits for folk you immediately needed to play.

As for trawling the galleries, boy howdy have I done a lot of that, and can confirm for instance that we have one (1) teen girl of ambiguous long-haired brownness to be all your Native, Hispanic and Desi characters between 12-16. There is one (1) casual-looking young Desi guy, who might be Mexican. Most of our Aboriginal guys are out in the middle of Male Rugged, but if you want ladies there's a choice of my guide, I think an ambiguous older lady, and...no, that's it. Running a Western, you run out of the entirety of Native portraits with an average party and something like four NPCs, assuming you use that one First Nations lumberjack and say he's on holiday. Want to set something in the Pacific Northwest? Siberia? Well, there's three native Siberians now who can just about pass for Tlingit or something (you're welcome - the boy is stuck out in the modern female category, mind) but otherwise it's like something out of Cannibal! the Musical trying to get people with  the broadest phenotypic traits for the areas. Brought Masks of Nyarlathotep to Egypt? Better not interact with more than a handful of older male locals, or you'll have to talk to that blatantly-a-cultist weirdo out of The Mummy (which I love, but because it is a toasted cheese sandwich) *ahem*

@SunRuan - yeah, it is possible to make fake portraits for non-Young-White-Fashion-model NPCs, but that's kind of like "the back of the bus goes to the same stops", y'know? To reverse that suggestion, why not make Team Perfect Eyebrows use one of the many, many existing portraits and put their ideal version of standard-pretty white lady up big in the description doodad where everyone can see the specific variations of their nose or eyebrows or what have you? At 50x50, I assure you that even if I could tell actors apart...just go for hair colour. Seriously. We don't need the same celeb again with different hair. Not when you can't have anyone from the entire continent of Asia as a player in Kids on Bikes without a month-minimum wait.

There was indeed a little joyous blip of grandmas for everyone, and I was excited, but it seems to have dropped off.

Also, if the suite of NPCs just aren't there ready to grab because people are getting by with the second-class rig-up system and never getting round to putting those portraits in it discourages playing anything other than generic Eurofantasy (or putting anything but north-western Europeans in their Eurofantasy). The wait time for everyone to get portraits in (or the insistence on the copy-paste method) for something like Harlem Unbound would lose you players and maybe sink a game. Then other potential players look about and go "huh, guess they don't play that here" and donate their time/selves to Pathfinder.


Anyway, aside from the elephant - tags? Ease of finding would maybe cut down on the repeats, and if they were coming in with tags that'd make the backlog/effort to tackle same smaller, was my thought.


edit: dodgy descriptor changed for the results of my trying to find a British Asian-looking dude under 40 without a suit.
This message was last edited by the user at 08:28, Thu 01 Oct 2020.
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