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Portrait Submissions.

Posted by Shannara
Morgan Coldsoul
member, 284 posts
29+ years RP experience
I'll forget again later
Thu 26 Dec 2019
at 02:38
  • msg #227

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

Things are pretty much the same! See message #194 in this thread.
liblarva
member, 617 posts
Tue 31 Dec 2019
at 03:57
  • msg #228

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

So the cut off for submissions is the 14th of a given month, but when are the pics added to the system? There used to be an announcement post about how many were added to which category, but I haven’t seen those lately. I know it’s the holidays, so I’m no complaining or cranky, I’m just curious.
Morgan Coldsoul
member, 285 posts
29+ years RP experience
I'll forget again later
Tue 31 Dec 2019
at 04:12
  • msg #229

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

All portrait submissions accepted on the 1st-14th are intended to be uploaded no later than the last day of the same month, so the new cycle can begin on the 1st. Warrax has said he's going to make an effort to post announcements about the uploads, again, going forward, so keep an eye out!
liblarva
member, 618 posts
Tue 31 Dec 2019
at 04:50
  • msg #230

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

In reply to Morgan Coldsoul (msg # 229):

Cool. Thank you. And thanks to everyone working to keep this going.
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 184 posts
Tue 31 Dec 2019
at 05:15
  • msg #231

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

Morgan Coldsoul:
All portrait submissions accepted on the 1st-14th are intended to be uploaded no later than the last day of the same month, so the new cycle can begin on the 1st. Warrax has said he's going to make an effort to post announcements about the uploads, again, going forward, so keep an eye out!

What about portrait submissions sent in from the 15th through the end of the month? (I feel like those should be rolling into the following month, logically, but I just want to clarify since I'm concerned by the way that you worded it that submissions sent in from the 15th through the end of a month are just perhaps not being uploaded at all.) There hasn't been an update since the third week of October, and the October backlog update from post #206/208 still hasn't been uploaded it appears, so can we expect three months' worth of update when we next get one? Assuming we get one in January, that is.

I'm not trying to ride you guys, and I do appreciate all of the effort being put forth, but it's a little frustrating to keep being told 'yes, there is going to be an update' (as was supposedly the case for both the end of October and the end of November) when there aren't updates happening. I can speak only for myself, but I would rather hear 'We're swamped and probably won't make it, please be patient' instead of being told something definitive that then doesn't happen.
Morgan Coldsoul
member, 286 posts
29+ years RP experience
I'll forget again later
Tue 31 Dec 2019
at 06:15
  • msg #232

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

As I believe has been explained before, any submissions received from the 15th onward are part of the next month's batch. So, a December upload to the gallery (for example) would include any valid submissions received from the 15th of November to the 14th of December. The 14th of the month is just the cutoff point for the current upload for that month. Apologies if the wording in the quoted text was confusing!

As for updates, I just prepare the portraits and make them ready for the gallery; anything beyond that is out of my control, so unfortunately I can only repeat what I'm told. When someone asks whether there's going to be an update, and I've been told that there will be, that's what I say.

An enormous number of portraits were uploaded in October, that I know for sure because I've verified it by checking. If you're not seeing a submission you sent in November, all I can suggest is that you double-check the email to make certain you included your site username (we don't email back to tell you why your portrait was rejected, so make sure you check the gallery for existing portraits close to the one you're submitting, etc.) and/or rMail Warrax, who does the actual uploading step, sorry.
Visceri22
member, 471 posts
Tue 31 Dec 2019
at 06:26
  • msg #233

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

Yeah it does seem like there's a disconnect somewhere, as I'm sending it to the same saved email address I've had portraits uploaded to for nigh on a decade, but they've not been showing up since the October flood of portraits. I'm certainly willing to be patient though considering the amount of work that goes into the process by the volunteers. Any illumination from Warrax on his end as well would certainly be appreciated!
Morgan Coldsoul
member, 287 posts
29+ years RP experience
I'll forget again later
Tue 31 Dec 2019
at 06:34
  • msg #234

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

In reply to Visceri22 (msg # 233):

I can't remember which one it was, but I did process at least one that for sure had your username attached, so hopefully we're getting them all properly. Of course, if that submission was sent in as part of the November batch, and that hasn't been uploaded, then...

All I can say on that, at the moment, is to rest assured that we have all valid submissions still on file (with backups) even if they haven't made it to the gallery, so they will get there eventually.
Visceri22
member, 472 posts
Tue 31 Dec 2019
at 06:40
  • msg #235

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

In reply to Morgan Coldsoul (msg # 234):

If it was a very angry lizardfolk, then I'd imagine that's the one from November in question. Good to know it's at least made it to the right place.
Morgan Coldsoul
member, 288 posts
29+ years RP experience
I'll forget again later
Tue 31 Dec 2019
at 06:47
  • msg #236

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

I can't be certain which one specifically is yours, but there are several lizardfolk portraits processed and in a folder for gallery upload.
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 185 posts
Tue 31 Dec 2019
at 08:00
  • msg #237

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

Morgan Coldsoul:
An enormous number of portraits were uploaded in October, that I know for sure because I've verified it by checking. If you're not seeing a submission you sent in November, all I can suggest is that you double-check the email to make certain you included your site username (we don't email back to tell you why your portrait was rejected, so make sure you check the gallery for existing portraits close to the one you're submitting, etc.) and/or rMail Warrax, who does the actual uploading step, sorry.

Yes, I know that a lot of them -were- uploaded in October. I also know that three female portraits (listed in posts #206/208 of this thread per Warrax) apparently were never uploaded that month, nor were several Neutrals. (The female portraits are visible in that imgur link, and they're definitely not up in the galleries as of this evening.) That was supposedly backlog, as at least one portrait submitted for one of my games (per Locke1221's conversation with Warrax in this thread) prior to the 15th of October (but not backlog) didn't make it in that month. Nothing has been uploaded since then, despite Warrax stating in November that there would definitely be an update that month.

That was over a month ago.

Should we:

 A) Expect an update in January at all?
 B) Expect ALL of the portraits that haven't been uploaded since October in that update, if it comes?
 or C) Expect some number of portraits in between?

I realize that you can only pass on the information you've been given, Morgan, but Warrax has told us more than once that there would be updates by <X> date and those updates have never appeared, nor has any explanation for why that update didn't happen. It would be nice if we could stop being told 'Update this month!' if we're not going to see an update that month.
Morgan Coldsoul
member, 289 posts
29+ years RP experience
I'll forget again later
Tue 31 Dec 2019
at 08:25
  • msg #238

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

You'll have to take it up with Warrax, sorry; I literally can't tell you any more than I have, since Warrax handles the uploads. All I know is that if I personally say to expect an upload, it's because I've been told that you should, as of the time I say it.
bigdaddyG
member, 25 posts
Thu 2 Jan 2020
at 17:23
  • msg #239

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

Is it okay to still send submissions in. New here so wasn't sure. Did send one.
Morgan Coldsoul
member, 290 posts
29+ years RP experience
I'll forget again later
Thu 2 Jan 2020
at 18:25
  • msg #240

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

In reply to bigdaddyG (msg # 239):

Yes, absolutely! Just make sure to follow the rules and include your site username someplace in the email, and try to skim the gallery for duplicates before submitting.
Mahatatain
member, 221 posts
Thu 9 Jan 2020
at 21:19
  • msg #241

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

Does anyone know if the portraits submitted between 1st and 14th Dec have been uploaded to the gallery? I've looked and I don't think that they have.

I ask because I have another portrait to submit but I don't want to send it in if it's going to prevent my one from Dec being uploaded to the gallery.

Thanks again to all those people who voluntarily do this chore. Your efforts are appreciated by the vast majority of people on RPOL.
Morgan Coldsoul
member, 291 posts
29+ years RP experience
I'll forget again later
Thu 9 Jan 2020
at 21:24
  • msg #242

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

It doesn't look like he's got the December batch done yet. If you send a new one in now, though, it'll be part of the January batch, so that's fine.
Mahatatain
member, 222 posts
Fri 10 Jan 2020
at 00:00
  • msg #243

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

In reply to Morgan Coldsoul (msg # 242):

Thanks for clarifying. I'll send it in.
Locke1221
subscriber, 41 posts
Wed 22 Jan 2020
at 22:09
  • msg #244

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

December? What about November, or October?

I understand Morgan that you have no control on that end, and I equally understand that Warrax is not being paid for their work, but we're months on without portraits which just means the backlog is ever expanding.

Can I live without portraits? Absolutely, I use hosted portraits for my NPCs that I feel we need it. However, being told that there will be an update, and then there never is, just makes us all wonder what the heck is going on. It also becomes really frustrating.

If life matters and situations have made new portraits untenable, I think we would all understand. We dealt without new portraits once before, and we can again, but letting us know about a suspension of uploads for whatever reason would be nice so we can stop sending submissions that just make the backlog even larger.
evileeyore
member, 280 posts
GURPS GM and Player
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 01:25
  • msg #245

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

Locke1221:
December? What about November, or October?

There was an upload in October, it was huge, however it seemed to be missing about 5-8 pics, which were supposed to go out in the next upload.

Which has never occurred.  And Warrax does know the user base is frustrated and would appreciate any info, even "Still working on it", however the team doesn't care about "non-release updates".

So my recommendation:  Don't make any submissions.  Eventually, someday, the backlog will be cleared.  Maybe we'll get told, maybe they'll just sit back and marvel at the empty submission box.  Who knows, it's not like they'll bother getting in here and talking to us.
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 190 posts
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 02:09
  • msg #246

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

The upload in October didn't appear to actually include stuff (or at least not everything) that was submitted IN October. Most of it, if not all of it, appears to have been just the previous backlog, which is what Warrax stated during that upload announcement. So there's still at least some (if not all) of the actually-submitted-in-October stuff that needs uploading. There's November that needs uploading. There's December that needs uploading. And now there's January that needs uploading. At this point, we've just created a SECOND backlog.

It's great that Morgan is continuing to tell us to submit things, and formatting them and sending them on to Warrax for uploading, but the system appears to be falling down at that point. Other people have offered to join the team and assist (I'm not sure if they actually are, or not), and I know some other people (myself included) that would be willing to do so, but all the help in the world won't solve the issue which is that things appear to be sitting untouched on Warrax's desk after having been sent there by Morgan. Unless someone else can be put in charge of uploading the images, I don't see how more people working on Step 1 would help solve the issue, and having multiple people trying to upload the same images feels like the sort of thing that would create all kinds of confusion and/or double uploads, etc. Is it possible that someone else COULD actually be put in charge of handling the uploads, or does that just cause too much confusion with the 4+ months of stuff that's already been sent on to Warrax?

The crux of the matter is this: The more backlog we create without it actually being uploaded, the more difficult actually getting it uploaded is going to be. There's a jam-up in the system, and it needs to be cleared before we keep piling more things on top of it.
This message was last edited by the user at 02:12, Thu 23 Jan 2020.
evileeyore
member, 281 posts
GURPS GM and Player
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 03:37
  • msg #247

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

SunRuanEr:
The more backlog we create without it actually being uploaded, the more difficult actually getting it uploaded is going to be. There's a jam-up in the system, and it needs to be cleared before we keep piling more things on top of it.

Hence my suggestion:  Stop making submissions until the backlog gets cleared.
ladysharlyne
subscriber, 2515 posts
In Games you get out what
effort you put into it!
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 17:38
  • msg #248

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

I do agree with EEyore in that stopping submissions again until all the backlog is caught up and I do mean ALL.  NO matter who is doing the final inserting of pics it is all going to snowball effect on them and no hope in sight.  Those in charge of the gallery are working the best they can and remember, they all have real lives too that come first.  So there needs to be a stop point so that they can catch up and feel they have accomplished something.  Once it is all done then start the submitting pics again when we are given the go ahead but with it starting a 'clean slate' fresh beginning for the gallery team who work as best they can. Adding more and more gallery members to the pot would just make things worse in my opinion.  Everyone, almost, wants to help, but lets give those working the time to work that it takes them.  There are plenty of pics to use until the one you submitted shows up.  I pick ones out and every few weeks check through the gallery to see if one I sent or someone else sent has been uploaded for a particular character.  The pic does not make any difference either way when you are writing a post it is just nice to have a lookalike character.


Bottom line:  Let the Gallery Team do their job in their own time without 'pushing' them to get things done.  Its a big job and they know what they are doing so perhaps STOP sending in pics until this is finally TOTALLY caught up then everyone starts 'FRESH' and new after checking time and again for their pic they sent to be added.  Let's be glad we have a team working hard at helping all of us.

Just my two cents and not that of any of the Admin or Moderators

Morgan Coldsoul
member, 292 posts
29+ years RP experience
I'll forget again later
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 18:06
  • msg #249

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

The Oct-Nov '19, Nov-Dec '19, and Dec '19-Jan '20 submission batches have all been vetted for uploading and are sitting in the folder. That's all I can tell you.

As I said further up the thread, when I announce that an upload should be expected, it's because I've been told to expect one, or I wouldn't make such an announcement. If and when an upload subsequently doesn't happen, I have no control over that part of the process and am just as surprised as anyone else. Rest assured that, given I've also got submitted portraits awaiting upload, that I understand your frustration.

If you want to hold off on submitting additional portraits, you can; if you want to continue submitting, then as far as I'm concerned, that's also fine. My part of the job hasn't proven to be burdensome and I don't mind continuing to accept and prepare any portraits we receive. Since I don't do the final step of uploading, I don't know how difficult it may or may not be and won't put words in Warrax's mouth.

Whether or not the situation will change, how, or when, I'm not in a position to tell you or to make any promises. vOv If something does change, I'll try to communicate that when it happens, assuming I am in a position to do so at that time. Otherwise, there's nothing for me to do but to say "I've been told an upload is happening" unless you also want me to say "oops, looks like it didn't happen" after 5 days or a week, at which point I'm sure most interested parties will have noticed for themselves, anyway. That's the best I can offer, because when an upload isn't made on time, I find out the same way you do: By checking the gallery for new additions and not finding them.

In the meantime, as ladysharlyne basically said, I'll ask that you please continue to bear with us while we try and improve things. Again, I get where any irritation is coming from and I feel it, too; I wish there was more I could do, at the moment. For those of you genuinely offering well-meaning suggestions and potential solutions, your helpful spirit is appreciated.
SunRuanEr
subscriber, 191 posts
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 18:25
  • msg #250

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

I don't think anyone here is 'pushing' them to get things done, ladysharlyne. They are legit coming in here and giving the impression that updates are happening, either by Morgan saying things like 'it doesn't look like he's got the December batch done yet, so feel free to send one in for January', or by Warrax stating 'yes, there will be an update'. Updates aren't happening. Please stop giving the impression that updates are happening until/unless updates actually start happening. (Morgan, I understand you are only relaying what you've been told by Warrax, but I think at this point we can all agree that you've been told erroneous information.)

YES, I realize that we should stop sending in submissions until the backlog gets cleared. (I don't actually know anyone who HAS sent one in, since the October 'submissions are open again' that didn't have any of the new submissions uploaded, myself, so YES, we're taking that advice.) But by the exact same token, they should stop ACCEPTING submissions until the backlog gets cleared. Having one half of the team continuing to do things while the other half is doing nothing is what is creating the massive logjam... and while I certainly can't speak for Warrax, if he couldn't find time to upload the three leftover pics that he said he was going to upload back at the end of October, it stands to reason that he almost certainly can't find the time to upload the <however many but probably a lot> of pics that have been sent in since then. The more daunting a task is, the less likely anyone is to WANT to do it, much less find the time to.

As for this:
quote:
There are plenty of pics to use until the one you submitted shows up.

If there were suitable pics in the gallery, people wouldn't send in portraits. I like to think that everyone that plays knows that the portrait team works out of the goodness of their heart, and tries their best to not create more work for them just for the sake of creating more work. I realize, in practice, that some people ARE too lazy to check every portrait in the existing gallery before submitting one, but I also know that most of the players I know DO check literally every portrait to see if there's something suitable before they decide to submit another... especially with the current state of submissions. Sometimes, there simply ISN'T a suitable portrait to use that conveys the look/attitude/type of creature that is needed... and that is precisely why portraits get sent in.

And this:
quote:
Let's be glad we have a team working hard at helping all of us.

I am SUPER GLAD that we have a portraits team, but only half of it is actually working hard to help us. Let's not delude ourselves into thinking otherwise. I completely and totally understand that real life happens, and that RPoL is not a job, so there is no judgment in that statement - it's simply the truth. If the other half of the team is no longer able to do what they've come in here and said time and again that they are going to do, perhaps it's time to consider giving someone else the responsibility. Again, that's absolutely no judgment on Warrax at all. Stuff happens. People lose free time, or lose motivation, or whatever all the time... but be honest and say 'I don't have time/the fruits to give to do this anymore' instead of continually telling people you're going to do it and then leaving them hanging when it doesn't get done.

...and let's be clear, here. No one is being all 'Man, you said it would be done by Friday and it didn't get done until Monday!' here. It's been MONTHS. If a quarter of a year isn't a reasonable time to wait, I don't know what is.

@MorganColdsoul - Man, I totally know that you're doing your job, and you're frustrated by this too, and I'm sorry that it's the situation that you're in. I want to reiterate that  I am 100% willing to take over the job of uploading images if Warrax is unable to do it, but I don't think that having two people on the team handling updates is a good idea because of the potential confusion.  I work from home. I have free time. If you need a body to replace Warrax so that uploads get done, I'm volunteering. (Assuming it is something that my system is capable of handling, and I have no reason to think that it isn't, but I'm not 100% certain what requirements are necessary because knowing what the portrait team does feels like a secret recipe...)
Xenoviel
subscriber, 26 posts
Thu 23 Jan 2020
at 18:29
  • msg #251

Re: Portrait Submissions - On Hold Until Further Notice

I absolutely appreciate that life will rear its ugly head on the regular and step in to deny people the time they need to get things done. It happens to me and happens to all of us from time to time. I'm not here to pile on.

However, I feel the need to point out a stumbling block in the system: If this is being done entirely by volunteers (which is my understanding of the present status quo), and if we cannot hold any given volunteer accountable because they are a volunteer, we are left with a situation where a single person's entirely-valid real life circumstances can stop up the process entirely.

My suggestion is this: Allow an additional volunteer on the uploading end of things. Basically if whoever is in position to handle the initial monthly upload can't for whatever reason, the second person would take over after, say, two weeks without the upload happening. The second person then clears it out. This would work both ways, if both people weren't able to get the upload done in a given month, but the first one was good for the following month, there wouldn't really be a backlog.

All folks really need is some communication to set expectations, and for the system/process to work itself out before too much time passes. If we can get some extra communication and a little backup so that no single person winds up shouldering too much burden, I think things will work themselves out quickly enough.

---
If anyone wants a more specific suggestion for how to 'split' up portrait work. Give one person the 1st through the 14th of the month and the other person the 15th through the 28th. Both get exactly two weeks with no overlap and no one does any portrait work outside of their window. That prevents uploads from happening twice.
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