Sorry

Char if you ever feel uncomfortable about something being discussed here, just say so.  I don't think anyone would continue the conversation after that.  One of the purposes of this place is to be an accepting outlet away from real life, and it doesn't succeed at that if you feel that uncomfortable.

I don't recall anyone except Kagura requesting a subject change.

Even so, I don't accept "let's change the subject" as an excuse to not back up a statement that was made. Sorry, but I don't roll like that.  I make people uncomfortable for a living.  It's how I get them to think about what they are saying.

And you'll also come to realize that I make arguments for the sake of a robust debate.  I do not make arguments to attack people or hurt feelings.  It is all to make you think about what you believe before jumping on one bandwagon or another.

I am still totally unclear why a debate about one of the most popular and controversial subjects of our time would impact the health of anyone who is reading these posts.

This is a very touchy and controversial topic though.  Could you and Kagura continue the discussion through private messages?  That way you can have the debate without upsetting anyone.

In reply to jioan (msg # 930):

Well, except that the Lounge is an "anything goes" board.  We've had this discussion in previous years, and so long as it is not hurtful or adult in nature, all these topics are fair game in the lounge.  I don't think anyone here wants to attack anyone else or hurt feelings, but we also can't walk on eggshells with everything we say.

To that point, I would think that my arguments that rejoice in life and seek better lives for young babies is the happier of the two sides of the debate, compared with the argument of not letting them live.  With that line of thinking, I would think it would be Kagura who is being insensitive.  :)

In reply to jioan (msg # 932):

I'm not continuing it further, I suppose, but we can't have this problem affecting the posts in the Lounge in the future either.

I am not on a band wagon
I never stated an opinion about pro life I just said that the hole being pregnant topic upset me because o I can't take a baby to full term with out dying at the moment
And for a young women who are expected to have children at some point in their lives because society see you as a failure if you don't that is something I don't want to talk about

The stuff about who should have kids and how to prevent child abuse or in force laws I am really interested in discussing

But the pro life stuff was upsetting kag and makes me depressed because if I get pregnant the chances of me misscarrying are so high the topic scares me
However it is obvious making abortion legal has not helped reduce child abuse by any grate amount
So it's not really relivent to the child abuse topic at all

My personal belief is people dicerve the right to choice what is best for their health and wellbeing with out judgment or criticism if you must know

But you have to stop upsetting people

Ignoring the personal attack on my character, we've had similar lines of discussion about what is and is not appropriate in the Lounge in the past, Heath.

My desire to not continue the discussion was first because I hadn't wanted to get into it in the first place (which is why I had said to not get me started - I knew it would end up escalating if someone did) and second because I did take note of Char's request for hugs, which I've noted she does when she's upset about something, usually in her real life which we have discussed in some significant detail to this point.

I believe the decision made in the past was that if anyone felt uncomfortable or upset by about a topic, it was to be discontinued with all possible haste, and to make attempts to stay away from polarizing topics as much as possible.

jioan was correct when he said that this is meant to be an accepting community. That includes attempting to be aware of what OTHER people are sensitive about, and knowing when you've gone too far. Heath, your excuse that you "make other people uncomfortable for a living" comes across as just that - an excuse. This is not your job. You are not obligated in any way, shape, or form, to make people uncomfortable here.

jioan, I'll note to you that I have said, multiple times at this point, that I have absolutely no interest in continuing the discussion with Heath, on or off this board. Having butted heads with Heath on many topics, I recognize when he will not back down from a position and have decided to cut my losses and agree to disagree with him, since we will clearly not come to a conclusion which satisfies both of us otherwise.

Now. What should we talk about that won't get people worked up?

Come on, I wasn't attacking your character.  I put a smiley face there because I found it ironic that my character was being attacked by Char and not yours.  If she had been a strong pro-life person, then she probably would have gone after you.  That was my point.  I wasn't saying you were insensitive, but just using Char's arguments as to what constitutes insensitive, then it could go both ways.

You may not want to continue the discussion, but you started the discussion.  You can't lay down a controversial position in a controversial topic and then tell everyone else not to comment on it.

And being "sensitive" means being reasonably sensitive, which means not expecting everyone posting on this board to know you have some sensitivity to some particular topic and to avoid all conversation with everyone else because of that sensitivity.  That is an unreal characterization.  Char should also be sensitive to the issues we want to discuss.  Just like you should be sensitive to the positions I laid out.

Also, "Making people uncomfortable" means making people think outside their comfort zone, not hurting their feelings.  I'm sorry if you took that to mean that I condone being mean spirited. I don't.  But if you ask me to never challenge people's assertions or to use the kind of debate I use each and every day all day long for my job, then I can't do that -- willingly or even unwillingly.

I don't know why you guys are trying to make me look like the bad guy here.  I never attacked anyone personally.  Char actually did that.  And I didn't bring up the debate topic.  Kagura did that.

The year 9 science class I taught almost completely on my own today?
The weather?
Hugs?
What I should do about the new social worker and the new way she has found to ruin my life?
Favourite teddy / soft toy?
How to make heath shut up before he upsets someone?
Hugs?

Your the bad guy you fall in the same group as my dad
Men
Also you don't share enough to be trusted and are pushy and inconsiderate
If kag wants to be pro life or anti pro life that is her choice and any decent human would respect that choice with out question
That's what the right to choice is

Yes everyone is the bad guy till they prove otherwise with me
It's a self preservation thing

Char,
While I can appreciate your sensitive situation, please refrain from attacking people on this board, myself or anyone else, even if they are, like me, MEN.  You don't know me, and I don't know you, so let's keep the judgments out of the picture.

Of course Kagura can believe what she wants, but if she posts something here about her logic behind something, we can debate back and forth with logic.  That is the nature of a debate.  It is not an argument.  Kagura and I have been debating long enough to know that and still respect each other.  You are new here and probably didn't realize that.

...also, everyone here is a good guy.  Except for powerisall, but that is another story for another day.

To put the above another way, I debate with my wife all the time, and we've been happily married for over 20 years.  Difference of opinion does not make people good guys or bad guys, and neither does debate.

To expand on the idea of a debate, I will agree with Kagura that I typically don't change my opinion when I am debating her.  That is simply because changing her mind or my mind is not the object of a debate.  You pick an issue and a side and debate it.  The "audience" includes those who are not participating.  Those are the people you are addressing.  (For example, it's not like two politicians debating are going to convice the other one they're right or wrong; they're trying to get voters to agree with them.)

Wait, wasn't powerisall killed in a car crash?  I remember him even having his own In Memoriam post but it's gone for some reason...

Or am I thinking of someone else?

EDIT:  Nevermind, I found that line in the hall of fame about it being a hoax.  That's pretty messed up.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:15, Sat 01 Feb 2014.

I've got to agree with Heath on his response to this, Char. Not all men are bad people. In fact, the majority of my closest friends (and some of the people who I would swear would… maybe not die for me, but would definitely fight for my honor if it came down to it) are male. Heck, there's a man I've known almost my entire life who I call my "brother". We're not related by blood, but he treats me as his little sister. He's frustrating sometimes, in the way that all siblings are, but I know that if anyone ever tried to hurt me, he would go after them with no hesitation.

It's a bit unfair to accord me the right to believe what I want to while denying that same right to anyone else. I don't expect anyone to accept my beliefs unconditionally (especially not Heath), although I do expect them to give my arguments as much consideration as I give theirs (and on that particular subject I've given the other side a great deal of consideration since it's one of the subjects that's so common in the media)

Considering everyone to be guilty until proven innocent is a horrible way to live. I makes existing in society at large a terribly stressful place, even worse if you already have anxiety issues. It means you can never fully trust anyone. Self-preservation is all well and good, but self-preserving to the point of denying yourself trust in anyone is lonely.

Heath and I may have our disagreements, even come almost to the brink of all-out verbal warfare, but at the end of the day, we're still… I don't know if "friends" is the right term, since we only know each other through this board, but we're certainly civil enough most of the time. Even respect each other. I say what I do about him because I've gotten to know him through his posts over the past several years, in which time we've both shared many things about ourselves. He's not a villain. Yes, he can be pushy when he goes on a tear, he could even, reasonably, be called inconsiderate.

Heath might irritate me to the point of insanity at times, but I don't think I would ever call him a "bad guy".

*hugs Char* I still care about you too. I don't know what your dad did that would give you such a horrible opinion of men as a species. You've been through way more in your relatively short life so far than anyone should have to go through in a lifetime. But I can't and won't back you in an opinion that I don't agree with. Instead, I'll do as I would for any of my friends and tell you that you're wrong, and why you're wrong. I'll give you the information you don't have, or that you've misunderstood so that you can revise your point of view accordingly. I'll do it as gently as possible, because I don't like seeing other people in pain, but I'll still do it. Because if you're my friend, so is everyone else here. And I will defend ALL of my friends fiercely and without apology.

Except 'kimi. Because she's actually my sister, and that's different.

Sorry

Who are you apologizing to? Don't apologize to me. I don't need an apology.

What are you apologizing for? Are you apologizing because we made you feel bad? Or because you actually mean it?

Char, we like you. We don't want you to just be a passive member of our community who apologizes when she's told she's wrong about something. We want you to be our peer. Someone who fights back when she has an opinion that she believes in strongly. That's why I scolded you.

Now. Let's try again to change the subject to something happier, shall we?

I always say sorry when I am upset or feel threatened.... it is the only way I know to stop people hurting me
It was the only way to get my dad to leave me alone


what are you up to today?

I don't want you to be scared of me. I'll never hurt you intentionally. I want you to be able to stand next to me as an equal.

ANYWAYS. To answer your question:

Well, I slept until 12:30 or so, which was AWESOME (I love being able to sleep in). But now I'm awake, and messing around on the internet.

After this, I'll watch the most recent episode of Log Horizon, an anime series about people who are stuck in the world of an online game. This is an increasingly popular genre of late, with the popularity of Sword Art Online, another series about people stuck in the world of an online game, but with an entirely different premise. Where SAO focuses on the players' fight to return to the real world (If they die in the game, they die in real life. The only way to leave the game is to defeat the final boss on the 100th floor of the world.), Log Horizon implies that returning to the real world may not be an option for the players trapped, and focuses on a player called Shiroe who was known as a top strategist in the game before "the Apocalypse" (the event that trapped everyone in the game) and his efforts to create a governing structure for the game city where he's based and to negotiate with the People of the Land, the original inhabitants who were NPCs when the game was just a game. I moves slowly, but I LOVE the characters.

When I'm done with Log Horizon, I'll get on World of Warcraft and either level some of my characters, or run content with my friends on there for the rest of the day.

How about you? What will you be doing with your day Char?

trying to not look like the worlds most messed up kid
listening to programs on my laptop
and trying to do school work

1. You're not the world's most messed up kid.
2. What programs will you listen to?
3. School work. I hated doing homework. I did it as little as possible, and with the least effort I could.

1. I feel like I am
2. mostly stuff on BBC iplay just so its not siolent in my room
3. if I did that they would have kicked me out of school by now
I want to go to universaty and stuff
I also belive if you start something, you one have to finish it and two have to do it to the best of your abilaty

Yeah, not doing your homework at all is bad. And you sound like you're actually a good student. I wasn't, really. Having a good work ethic is important in life.

Me, I'm a slacker. If I can avoid doing something, I will, for as long as possible.

I think most of us are slackers here at least to some degree.  After all we joined a game called A Serious Waste of Time.

Amen, jioan.

Although there are those of us who take than moniker as a tongue in cheek thing and really don't think it's such a waste.  ;)