This will be a catch all for the very initial stages of development.

So we have two temp names. I'll be glad to change them as desired.

I think right now Diamond and Ryu are uncertain of their role. I think a controller is the least necessary, at least in my typical campaigns, but certainly you won't be remiss to play one. I would suggest a leader and defender, but sub-roles may fit that well enough as well, if an attention to the missing roles is kept in mind during the stages of conflict.

I do not have an ETA for the game being ready. My first step is to write up the brief world information so if no one else, Diamond has an idea of the world's feel and position. I also hope this will be useful as the game goes on, to keep the germane facts in order.

That's the first step, for me. You three are welcome to discuss what ever you feel comfortable with, and I will attempt to mediate the missing parts of information as I see them called into question.

We will probably have a fourth join us in the future, but they are currently dealing with RL issues, and refrained from immediately joining, so as to not slow the game's progress.

Hey gang!  I'm inclined to play defender, and the primary plan I have for the character centers around a samurai theme.  The idea is to practice one cut a thousand times,  charging into the fray with Threatening Rush and then using Cleave constantly, using reaction/interrupt powers for everything else.

Highlights:
• Off-controller, with at-will Damage over Time or multi-target effects.
• Accurate attacks and high crit damage synergize with damage buffs
• Action economy maximizes benefits from continuous bonuses.

If that don't meld well but you are okay with me still playing defender, the other options are a dwarven were-bear made of angry bees that takes zero damage from anything and throws enemies off cliffs, or a tiefling Paladin who curses enemies with a whopping -10 to-hit and seven years of bad luck.

On the other end of the spectrum,  if someone else wants to fill the defender role I can go Leader.   Been really wanting to play a Pixie Warlord inspired by Ocarina of Time, too.

"Diamond?" Hmm, curious as to where that came from? I'm happy to just stay as "Ameena" until I have a character.

Just gonna throw it out there right now that I don't really care for meta-gaming or otherwise getting into heavy discussion of game mechanics and how our characters will work OOC. I hadn't even thought about my character in terms of role or anything else till I saw this thread - I'd just been thinking in story terms. That said, role-wise I tend to gravitate toward Strikers primarily (the four characters I have waiting to be played some day are all, in fact, Strikers, though none share a race or class with any of the others :D), with Controllers and Defenders kind of sharing second place, then Leaders last. And if I do play a Leader it's usually a Shaman because I like Primal classes, don't care for religion, and have never been too enamoured by the Warlord (no magic :() or the Bard (haven't yet had a concept where Bard would work) :D.

But I think of the character first, and their backstory. To roughly paraphrase Matt Colville, a character sheet is an imperfect representation of the character you have in your head. Something like that. The mechanics come second to me. And this is Fourth Edition, where I don't think it's possible to accidentally make a character that really doesn't work anyway :D.

Oh, and in other news, hi there:D.

Hello all.  I'm actually one of those guys who got into D&D with 4th edition so I like to play it whenever I can.  (Didn't actually join the initial discussion, but I did keep an eye on it)

The Character I submitted, Sir Snow, is fairly simple--Albino Dragonborn ostracized for being "white" accidentally murders one of his tormentors and is now in exile as a knight errant.

I submitted him as a Paladin (Defender), but I'm sure there are builds for him as a Warlord (Leader), or Avenger (Striker) depending on party composition.

In reply to Diamond (msg # 4):

Cool, I'll go ahead and try to stick to the story.  Even with our current composition,  I think we will be fine.   If not, I'll switch to another character when Ryu dies.

@Sir Snow, I think Ryu will get along well with your character.   He failed to protect his master,  and is lost in a strange land after chasing the killer through a mysterious portal.  He's searching for clues to the whereabouts of the changeling warlock who did it so he can bring the villain to justice.

"Metagaming" can mean many things, some of them good, so I'm not automatically against it, but I too don't tend to get too engrossed in the mechanics as long as they work. I submitted a half-elf vampire since I want to see for myself how it works. I don't normally go for strikers, partly because there are usually lots of them and I'd rather fill an empty role. So, I'd be willing to change to just about anything.

I tend to disagree with the idea of picking roles as "metagaming" as A. 4th edition expects a certain amount of variety in characters present (which means players need to plan somewhat during creation), and B. the specific classes of 4th edition have a lot of blending between them.

Take Snow as an example.  All he really needs is the Divine power source for his character arc to work (and that might be able to slide too--because Warlord).  His actual "role" in the party is more dependent on what we need than necessarily an expression of his character.  I've played characters that have switched classes because the team wasn't handling the monsters well as we were, and I am willing to do it again.

More to the point, based on the character concepts we DO have in this thread (Ryu's displaced samurai, my dishonored knight, and Winter's vampire elf) we seem to have a sort of "Ronin" theme going...and that might be worth exploring as to how we got (and stayed) together as an adventuring company.

Thoughts?

I'm with you there, there's a lot of really nifty synergies between certain races, classes, or even individual powers.   However, I also feel that we need to respect different player archetypes (Actors, Explorers, Competitors, Engineers, etc.) and what they may or may not enjoy from the game.  Personally,  I'm an Engineer; I love finding interesting mechanics and experimenting with them,  or taking loose concepts/pop-culture references and seeing what would happen to them if they lived in-game.  But even in that context,  I still want other players to feel like they have more to receive from my character than a scripted murderbot with a personality of cardboard,  so I'm willing to push back the synergy stuff until after the Actors and Explorers get to set the scene or make their discoveries.

That said, I'm totally down for taking that discussion to PMs if anyone is likewise inclined. :)

---

I do like the "Ronin", knights without a cause connection.   If someone saved Ryu's life or gave him guidance when he first arrived in this place, his honor would dictate that he owes a blood-debt (figuratively OR literally).  It could also be the reverse, that someone in the party had promised to help him track down the warlock who assassinated his lord after Ryu helped them.

I don't think he's adverse to working with a vampire, assuming the person in question was up front about their nature.   The only things he wouldn't tolerate are shapeshifters and Kenku, due to some personal experiences.

Yes, he's upfront about being a vampire. I don't think it's particularly easy for him to hide it anyway, but he doesn't really try.

Wow, I've just read through all the stuff for Vampire,  and the class is crazy strong.   With a paladin and a fighter watching your flanks, you're pretty much unstoppable and can full-heal after every encounter for free if you played your cards right.   Even in the worst case scenario,  we can donate one HS to full- heal you anyway.

On another note, I'm lamenting the lack of class skills available to the fighter.   Gonna have to get creative with feats to get the numbers that match my vision of Ryu.

In reply to Ryu Zaku (msg # 11):

Interesting that you'd say that, as the ckas is generally considered rather weak, due to its lack of feat support. But that's part if why I wanted to try it for myself.

The fact that he can hit any non-AC defense at will is pretty special, and the damage is up there with sorcerers and Blackguards.  Thankfully, there's a lot you can do with generic and/or racial feats.

---

Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
With Beguiling Enchantment, Unarmored Agility, Deadly Draw and Holy Symbol Expertise you could become an elusive seducer drawing enemies in towards an easy target only to find that they are tangled in a deadly trap.  Even if you were lying "helplessly" at their feet, you would have more defense than a Paladin of the same level and do not grant combat advantage, while they have a -2 to all attacks from being under your charm attack and grant combat advantage.

---

---

Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
On the other end of the spectrum, with Ki Focus Expertise, Superior Implement (Iron Ki Focus), Impending Victory and Crusader's Fury feats you embrace the violence of your bloodlust, getting attack and damage bonuses (doubly so against bloodied enemies), throwing your foes to the walls and ravaging enemies that try to flee when the blood of your allies fills your senses.

---

---

Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
If you embrace the power a vampire has to manipulate others to strengthen your leadership over your minionsparty members, you could fluff Group Vigor as "revitalizing your thralls", granting an additional 1/2/3 HP when allies spend healing surges in your presence.   The Dusk Elf Stealth bloodline feat likewise could represent helping your allies embrace the cover of darkness, and leads to some other vampire-esque feats like turning invisible at-will while concealed or cloaking yourself with shadows when bloodied.  The Light Step feat is great for making a getaway, hiding the footsteps of your allies and granting increased overland speed like ghosts in the night.  If you multiclass into Ranger,  the Group Quarry feat heightens the bloodlust of your allies against a chosen prey, and the Martial Vampire multiclass feat gives you a temporary healing surge the first time you hit with a Martial power that you can spend to empower your vampire powers.
 

---

And that's not even counting the Born in Shadow feat tree.  I'd say that's still pretty good.

Game mechanics aside, what would your character think of the rest of us?  Do you see us as useful pawns, allies of necessity, trusted friends, or something else?

So, I've been looking through paladin options and it seems like the best build for Snow (especially for this group as it stands) is a CHA-based Radiant Mafioso.

Is Lord Winter going to survive standing next to such glorious incandescence, or should I reconsider?

---

Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
Who would win?

• Immortal vampire, the bloodthirsty Lord Winter
• one glowy boi

---

This made me laugh waaaaay harder than it should have.  I just have this image of our resident vampire trying to seduce some villager,  and the paladin getting annoyed at having to listen to it and uses Divine Challenge on Winter so that when Winter slaps the villager on the ass he just starts f***ing smouldering and screaming "IT BURNS!!!".

But yeah, Charisma it up my dude.

Thanks. Of those suggestions, I had already been considering Group Vigor and the Born of Shadow feats, though I have no way to know how "shadowy" this game is likely to be. Other than that, I figured I'd pick up some of the good human feats. I'll never stop being rankled that most of the good elf feats require elven precision and that there's no way for a half-elf to pick that up. It really should have been an option for them, in exchange for dilettant.

I'm usually a fan of multiclassing, and there are some good synergies, I'm told, but I want to try an unadulterated vampire this time.

I never use Expertise feats, and I prefer not to optimize around not being hit.


I haven't written him up yet, but at worst he'll be unaligned (though I don't think going with "evil" would actually compel me to have him behave in an unhelpful or off-putting way. Evil amortized over immortality can easily come across as good for stretches as long as a normal adventuring career). He'll be grateful to have allies that see him as more than a monster and he'll be working not to drive them away or give them any reason to wish he wasn't around.

I have no intention of taking the healing surges of his allies, unless they demanded it for some reason. My hope is to get an extra healing surge from blood drinker early in any encounter, and rely on regeneration and temporary hit points rather than any surge-powered healing, until a rest, so that he can heal to full when the extra goes away. He can't bank extra healing surges from blood drinker, so as soon as he loses one of his starting ones he'll be in a less good position.

I think that, as long as it's functioning (i.e. he's not taking radiant damage), his regeneration will bring him back up from zero. I also believe that, even out of combat, his regeneration would bring him out of being bloodied, though no further. It would probably be good for those points to be clarified.

If anyone knows of any, I'd be interested in feats or items that:
Boost regeneration.
Spice up temporary HP.
Allow one to use their second wind for a different purpose, without spending a healing surge, since the normal use will usually be a bad deal.

This character shouldn't have any trouble "standing next to" a high-Charisma paladin, as long as they're not constantly spraying nearby creatures with radiant damage - in which case everyone would be in the same boat as him, just not as badly.

In reply to Lord Winter (msg # 16):

This might not be exactly what you're looking for,  but Disciple of Justice allows you to grant an adjacent ally the Second Wind HP instead of yourself (good for if you survived an encounter unscathed,  but don't want your extra Healing Surge to go to waste.

There's a level 3/13/23 Belt of Righteous Blood that increases the regeneration from Enduring Soul by 1/2/3, respectively.   Otherwise, you're kinda stuck waiting for Epic tier (Rapid Regeneration increases all regeneration by Con-mod).

As for THP, level 9/19/29 Bracers of Zeal allow you to expend up to 5/10/Any THP and deal that much extra damage on a melee attack 1/encounter.

Having difficulties here. i will post ASAP.

In reply to Just_V (msg # 18):

No worries, we're still just shooting the breeze and figuring out stuff.

In reply to Ryu Zaku (msg # 19):

It's a packed week until Friday at the earliest. I've got...about 20 minutes today and likely about an hour (site-wide) every day after that, so between playing and GMing until after the 18th, at the earliest, it's going to be difficult.

I'll try to make bite size posts, it's better than nothing.

Sure - at least we all know you're still here :). I posted to you in our PM thread a few days ago with some more stuff I'd been thinking about regarding my character, so there's plenty for you to read up on if you get the time :D.

Not sure if everyone has finalized character stuff yet or if we're still in limbo,  but with Sir Snow covering the defender role I think I'm going to sacrifice the ability to mark enemies for more mobility & damage.   With the Rogue (Thief Variant), I can start with powers that mimic the effects of Cleave and Combat Challenge to a limited degree, and gives me access to more skills so Ryu feels more developed out of combat.

Also, love the setting details so far,  J_V!

Do we know what level the game is going to start at yet?

Don't think it's been mentioned yet, no. The character I plan on using was originally made for a previous campaign (run by this same GM, actually, so technically she comes pre-approved :D) and I think is level two, but I have no problem just de-levelling her if need be. Also will need to find out if we're allowed to start with any magic items (and if so, how many) because that's something else I'm likely to have to edit/remove :D.

It will start at level 1.

I'm sorry I've been fairly quiet. Ive been active working on the campaign's quests, maps and areas. I'm not yet ready to present any of this though.

RL has more or less stabilized. Though it is a time of tumult.

I've got the mechanics of the character mostly figured out at this point.  Once we have access to character sheets,  I'll move it over but if anyone wants to review be my guest.

I really need to stop hovering over the compendium at 3 am.  I keep getting ideas for new characters that I'll most likely never play.

I could go with what I have now, I just need a feat and a racial power. Knack for Success is fine, but I always like being able to make Dilettante work, if possible.

It's probably going to take until Thursday to actually work on Snow.  Life got crazy stupid busy all of a sudden.

However, it's not going to stop me.

• If you want good dilettante powers to represent vampiric superhuman capabilities, the Monk powers Five Storms and Steel Wind give some Dex-based AoE attacks that benefit from your implement proficiencies, or you could take Blistering Flourish to cause Cha-mod extra fire damage with each melee attack as the enemy's blood boils through their skin.
• If you want to urge your allies to draw blood, the Cleric's Astral Seal has a built-in accuracy buff and heals the underling you sent after the target.  The Paladin power Ardent Strike could be fluffed as a curse, burning foes who dare harm your thralls.
• If you just want range, Sorcerer and Warlock both have a great range of single target and multi-targets powers.

You're also able to take advantage of theme abilities or powers.   Here's some fun suggestions:

• Brazen Ambassador (Dragon 408) grants a minor encounter power that prevents enemies of your level or less from attacking you.  At level 10, you can also sustain the power as a standard action.   The fluff could be that you bear the mark of your bloodline's leader whom none dare cross.
• Courtier (Dragon 426) enhances your persuasive powers,  letting you roll 2d20 and take the highest on diplomacy checks.  Higher levels let you substitute Diplomacy for Bluff and Streetwise tests, letting you focus trained skills elsewhere.
• Ghost of the Past (Dragon 430) is great for representing a true immortal vampire  who had slept away the ages long enough to see empires rise and fall.   You get history trained (or an additional skill), an additional language and an encounter power to roll 2 die for any attack, skill or ability check.  At level 10 you can use the power again whenever you spend an action point.
• Inquisitive (Dragon 426 again) gives you 3-5 NPC contacts in the background who you can call upon for aid,  so long as it doesn't require putting them in danger.  This includes conducting research for a +4 to a knowledge test, scouring the market for bargains of up to 10% on items, or direct tasks like arranging meetings and leaving doors unlocked.  You can pretend that they are your vampiric thralls!
• Yakuza (Dragon 404) embraces a ruthless,  oppressive nature.   The power gives ALL enemies a -2 to attack rolls against you after you bloody or kill an enemy,  which lasts until you get hit or the end if the encounter.   At level 5 you add your Cha-mod to opportunity attack rolls and damage rolls if you hit that enemy with Combat advantage.

In reply to Ryu Zaku (msg # 30):

I admire your willingness to reflavor things.

I'll be going with direct the strike, to reflect his past as a warrior and leader.

I prefer not to use themes.

Ugh...that took longer than I wanted.

But Snow is all done, and ready for final inspection.

Alright! I'll get the quests areas set now that I think everyone (?) is done with their first drafts of characters. I'll look them over, find ways to challenge and reward them, and then if anything seems incorrect I'll inquire about it.

The map will take some time to make, but I REALLY think it will be worth while, if this goes smoothly as I hope. Much work now, for very little post start. I don't have an eta yet, but I will probably have better idea after I get three or four areas done. I can estimate what the post char gen prep work time will be.

I'm looking forward to this!

I have a few changes to make to mine from the original version (mainly changing of gear) but most of the rest of the stuff is there. I see we now have actual character sheet pages so I'll copy my stuff into there once I've finished up :).

I would like to poll all the players on an introduction.

If the preparation stage of this goes well, I may do a diceless five/five post, where the players have solo introduction and we summarize the events (for expediency) in a total of five posts each. Certain prospects, such as imprisonment and death, will not be on the table, but may net some loss (such as damage or even healing surges) or some net gain (extra gold, possibly a single magic item, or a bit of secret information). Ultimately though, I want to focus on the core of the campaign which is with the group assembled.

This is diceless, but not statless. You'll have an open hand of "rolls" to be played like cards, and while you'll know what you "roll" before you take an action, rolls used cannot be undone, and modifiers may some degree of variation. This is what I mean by diceless. Conflict, of any kind, will have the toll on the entity involved that is at the disadvantage after every post you make. So a combat, for instance, will revolve around one 1 round of actions, your character's and the antagonists'. I will use the affects of that round to help determine the outcome. I will break my post into two parts, separated by an "hr" break. The first will be the resolution of your post, and then the introduction of the next scene. It will be a very short choose your own adventure type, will more limited actions than when the game fully starts.

I need to know if you all would be interested in a diceless introduction, which has the potential for gain/loss and will ultimately give us some useful preparation of getting to know your character's attitude, personality and approach to conflict.

This is something I encourage you to think about. I won't be ready for a week at the very least. I have some RL events, and want to be more thorough on the mapping.

Hmm, that's something I've not seen before. I'm not sure what I think of basically having a predetermined set of rolls to "spend" on seeing if bad stuff happens to my character before we even start. It also sounds like some kind of situation is gonna come up that requires that many die rolls to be made, rather than any pssibility of it ending up just as straight RP. I assume this would be a private thing, player-to-GM, for us to get ino our characters a bit before they all actually meet each other?

Overall verdict - undecided.

Oh, one thing I don't think I've asked yet - can we roll our own dice or do you have issues with players who cheat and so disallow that? I much prefer actually rolling a physical die - it feels more like I'm rolling it, and the few occasions I've been in a game that used the automated die roller here it always seems to go badly :P. But if we have to use the automated one, then, well, I'll have to use the automated one.

I am intrigued, I must admit.  It sounds like a great way to do introductions, and it could yield a lot of interesting character stuff.

However, it does throw some of my plans askew.  I was under the assumption that we were "established" already--a bunch dishonored types who have stuck together out of desperation, taking whatever work we could find etc. etc.

But if we're doing all that background stuff we have to answer the "why do all of these jerks hang around with each other?" question.  Which, with a vampire in the party, requires a little more explanation than normal.  And even with years of "ronin-ness" under his belt, Snow's first impression of a vampire is going to be to shove his sword down said vampire's throat and demand he Praise the Sun.

So that's a character interaction I was hoping we could "skip over" and get to the good stuff.

However, that awkwardness aside, I'm willing to try anything once.

Verdict: Tentatively for it.

I'm all for establishing some introduction, especially because of my unusual origin story and the non-standard setting; I'm intrigued to see how the two mesh together (although I do see some possible parallels already :D).

I've updated the character description,  and am eager to play this out!

Verdict: Yes, please.

Most play-by-post games don't last that long, at least not with the same players, so my preference is to start to play the game with the rules we signed on for.

Then since we aren't unanimously unopposed to the idea, I guess that's going to be a no.   Well, I'm still happy just to be playing so no complaints from me :)

Just for the record, I've made sure my character (who was originally made for a previous game with this same GM but it died after only a few IC posts, can't remember exactly why) isn't really bothered about who they hang around with. That is, I've seen the word "vampire" mentioned a few times here (presumably you mean vryloka? There isn't a race called "vampire" in Fourth Edition as far as I know...) but as long as you're not trying to suck my blood or that of some innocent creature, it's fine. But you can find out who/what my character is when you meet them, and I'll do the same with you :).

There was, apparently, a Vampire "class" made for a horror supplement that our good Lord Winter is trying out.  Due to the lack of supplement support, it's actually a little weaker than other classes but he's trying to make it work anyway. (and good for him, says I)

Yes, you can be "vampiric" in 4th Edition in at least three ways: a class (which I think is a brilliant approach, even if it's not terrifically made), a race, and a feat. My character is a half-elf vampire. His sheet is currently visible if anyone would like to look it over.

Usually, Vryloka is better used to represent those descended from vampires, but who aren't necessarily full vampires themselves.  You could easily visualize characters like Blade or Vampire Hunter D as Vryloka fighters or rangers.

Personally,  I think the vampire is really good.   It falls off a little bit in terms of damage at high tiers, but is GREAT in terms of survivability to get you there.   There's also some really cool powers that have a lot of use out of combat and for cinematic purposes.

Speaking of interesting powers, Dragon's Breath or Dragonfear?

Dragon Breath--there's a feat I'm going to take at level two that let's me Mark anything caught in my Breath hit or miss.  That's too good to pass up.

In reply to Sir Snow (msg # 37):

I'm totally for you all knowing and having worked together previously. Most players (like 90%+) I GM for don't like that. I MUCH prefer it, actually, and if you'd all be do that that would be great!

So it sounds like, from what I'm seeing, some (or all) of you will already know each other. I'll start you all in the same introduction, and you can PM each other or work in the new OOC thread (once the game starts!) to figure out who knows who. Either way, I don't want long solo introductions. It's either short and sweet, or nothing at all. I don't want to do a rolling system for the introductions. There's no point, seriously. If you roll bad, you'll be horribly punished. If you you roll okay, it will have zero impact, and other than a few posts of dialogue, you'll miss the objective. If you roll exceptionally well, you got very lucky, and I seriously doubt more than one of you would, so that person would have a huge advantage. Until all players are met, I prefer to keep an even footing.

As for roleplaying, no that actually the point of the introduction. It wouldn't be traps and zombies to survive, but things like overhearing a dispute between a drunk drwarf and an elven woman by a wagon. The dwarf would attack the woman, and you'd be there to interact. You'd have a number of ways to diffuse the situation. You'd just be guaranteed the same net effect, but it would resolve depending on what you did. Understand? And players would experience a toll of gain and loss, about equally. It's nixed though, which is fine. As long as you all can work together, and will start in the same mindset, that's 100% better. ;)

I've skipped over the parts where people have been describing their characters since I prefer to keep player and character knowledge as close together as possible, 'cause otherwise I risk getting confused and accidentally having my character act on information they shouldn't have (ie, meta-gaming). My intro to my character will likely be what it normally is - a physical description of what an observer will see, and a description of whatever they happen to be doing at the time. I don't plan on hogging half a thread with some epic long description of my character bursting onto the scene and taking over the action or anything :D.

Was that a yay or nay on the "rolling our own dice" thing, btw?

In reply to Diamond (msg # 48):

Believe me, I prefer to roll my own RL dice. I have three sets of metallic dice, not even plastic ones feel real to me anymore. I love my copper and steel dice set., and bought my best friend a set of brass dice. I have bucket list commission planned to eventually get solid gold ones if my financial situation ever has a windfall of success. Though the gold ones will probably never leave their crystal case. *chuckles*

For rolling your own dice, I'm perfectly fine with it on one condition. If another player really doesn't feel comfortable, then we'll all roll on RPoL.

Some people get squeamish by others rolling their own dice. I know enough about number grouping and statistics to tell if someone is cheating. I don't want anyone else to feel uncomfortable though, TBH. That's my only concern. I look at it this way, if I was at a face to face table, 97% of rolls I'm going to just assume the players are not cheating, since I won't be looking at the dice. If ever I need a specific roll to made very objective, I will ask that player to roll in front of me, and in this case on the dice roller with a label.

I deliberately refraining from answering before, because I wanted others to have a chance to say "sure!" or "Please, no." It's something that's not worth losing another player's trust, and thus engagement over. If after a few days there's no objection, I'll allow it until such a time as it becomes a problem.

Fair enough. I mean, if it's a tabletop I wouldn't expect everyone to be constantly leaning over trying to see what everyone else has rolled...well, maybe if it's a really important roll, like a Death Saving Throw or something, but that's more a case of "Omg what did you get?" than "Hmm, I am suspicious you might cheat". 'Cause if you're gonna cheat at a tabletop RPG, what's the point in playing?

My d20 tends to roll in phases...like, I'll roll low several times in a row, then it'll switch and I'll get a bunch of high rolls one after the other, then back to low again, with perhaps the occasional mid-range number every now and then. Running a session at tabletop the other week I kept rollng 8s for some reason, with the occasional 1 thrown in. I think it was during a fight so I suppose the players got off okay on that :D.

Exactly. :) I played several hundred table-top campaigns to say nothing of sessions, and seldom was a player craning their neck to audit fair rolls. Still people on RPoL have different standards. Which is fine. When in Rome.

No objections from me.   The only time I care to impose dice rollers is when there are competitive events between players.   Otherwise, do what feels the most fun.

Back when I used to be insistent on using rollers,  we had one occasion where a player was using a dice bot over a chat program and somehow rolled a natural 101 on a d100. The random number generator was supposed to churn out a random decimal between 0 and 1, multiply it, round down and add one.  Well, apparently the possible values INCLUDED 1.00000000, and so we had a good laugh about how he automatically succeeded at everything for the rest of the session,  and decided to let everyone roll regular dice if they wanted.

Fair warning, I'm going to go quiet for a few days. It seems like Caaru is the only one who needs my help right now, and so I'll probably answer their questions as I can, but I'm going to intently focus on the mapping and quest pins. Every post I have to read or reply to takes time from reading the sheets and my own notes, and also writing up the quests and NPCs and working on editing the map. So PM me if necessary, but I'll probably not check this thread for a few days. I want to get this part done, and it's involved. So it's going to take awhile even with focus.

Just for the record, the stuff I'm asking about isn't anything major, just tweaking a few final features :). My character is (and indeed already was before this game was set up) pretty much done. Note that I will be adding an avatar once we actually start and you (players) see what my character looks like - no spoilers ;).

Also, haha, that guy rolling a 101 on a d100 is very funny :D. Bet that put your group off using automated rollers (or at least, that automated roller) for your games :D.

What's the risk there, as you see it?

My view is that I don't care if anyone metagames, as long as they're making an effort yo make the game enjoyable for everyone. It's not worth the effort to police it, that I've ever seen.


There is actually an answer to this. There's a fundamental incentive that drives "cheating" in RPGs, as well as over-optimization and other mis-behavior. If the GM (ideally in cooperation with the group) takes steps to keep that incentive from being present, most of that kind of behavior goes away, or at least is less detrimental.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:25, Tue 29 Oct 2019.

I'm here for the RP, so I want stuff to make sense in-character. If you're playing, say, a dwarf who's spent all their life underground mining and stuff and has only recently set foot on the surface world, they logically should have no idea what a windmill is when they see one. If that character approaches a farm and says to another character "Hey, let's go check out that windmill", that doesn't make sense - their player may know what a windmill is, but there's no reason for the character to magically have that knowledge when their player has made a point of saying "My character has spent their whole life underground and everything on the surface world is strange to them". Similarly, if we meet, say, a black dragon and I know my character has never met or read about dragons before, I shouldn't then have them yell "Watch out! They breathe acid!" because how would they know that?

I'd rather keep track of all the stuff my character knows, and similarly only share with other characters knowledge that my character has. I've been in games where people for some reason post what their characters are thinking or feeling, for example. But I don't see the point - no-one can act on it...well, not unless they're telepathic or empathic or something and have ways of picking up on it ;). If you're just posting between you and the GM, fine, share whatever you like. Your character feels angry? Say they feel angry. But when any other players can see it, say instead that they fold their arms and scowl or something. It's...surely basic RP, is it not? And that's why we're all here, after all - it's in the name - "RPG" ;).

There are lots of ways for that to happen, including not taking things literally. That's how I watch Star Trek, for instance. Some people put in a lot of effort to make it make sense, but I just ignore the stuff that doesn't, because it's generally just an excuse for an interesting story.


Books? Stories? Similar contraptions used in inexplicably windy shafts underground? But it probably doesn't matter. The important thing is that the player is contributing a suggestion to the group for a way to proceed. The focus should be on that, rather than on who said what and why.


If their player was foolish enough to make an absolutely statement like that, then no, there'd be no reason. Fortunately, things like that are easily avoided.


Books? Stories? But again it doesn't really matter. The important thing is that the party is being attacked by a dragon, which has more ways to cause problems than just its acid breath. If a GM includes a monster that is made less challenging if a particular fact is known about it, then they're setting themselves up for conflict with their own storytelling abilities and the players. Better to avoid that, I find.


I don't see the point either, but mostly because I find that I'm not particularly entertained by reading about those things.


Whether or not someone can or should act on it greatly depends.


It's important to bear in mind that "roleplaying" means different things to different people. To some people it only means talking to NPCs. To others, it means emoting. To still others, it means drama. To me, it means anything the character does that it's even remotely plausible for them to do, so I'm roleplaying even if my character is in combat and not talking.

But my point was that there's a key reason people act on out-of-character information. If that reason doesn't exist, then they have almost no make the game less fun for anyone by acting on that information, and also everyone else has less reason to police such actions.

Even if that reason exists (which it probably will), I'm not going to devote a lot of effort to not sharing things about my character that other characters plausibly wouldn't know, nor calling them on it if they use that information.

It's also worth noting that when players know things the characters do not, there is potential for entertaining irony, or for players to otherwise enhance the game for everyone. "Metagaming" is not inherently bad.

Eh, I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. Just don't expect my character to act on stuff they have no reason to know about, or for me as a player to tell you stuff about said character OOC - if you want to know stuff about my character, don't ask me, have your character ask them. Roleplaying to me is...well, playing a role, ie my character. I'm not channelling myself through my character, I'm creating a person and giving them motivations, goals, a personality etc, and then seeing what happens when they set off interacting with whatever the world around them happens to contain :D.

Fair enough, though it seems as though some things might be obvious to a character, yet not to a player, and that giving the player additional clarifications would help them player their character more realistically.

If you want to know stuff about my character, ask me, the player. I probably don't know the answer myself, so that will be a good opportunity for us to collaborate and come up with something cool that makes the game more interesting for everyone.


Do you control the character? Are you responsible for its actions? If a player is bothered by something your character is doing (which, yes, some feel shouldn't be an issue, but can be, practically speaking), is the only recourse to handle the issue in game?

Thank you for discussing this, by the way, and for having an open mind about how others approach the game.

It's a funny one - I am controlling the character, but sometimes my characters say or do things I don't expect. I'm not sure quite how that works, but somehow it does :D.

If I was gonna ask a player something about their character it would probably be more along the lines of a rules/mechanics clarification - "How long did you say this buff lasts?", or "Which arm did you say your character had that creepy-looking scar?", etc. Stuff that my character should be able to remember but I, for whatever reason, don't, and it's easier to ask for a quick clarification/reminder than trawling through previous posts trying to find where it was originally mentioned :D.

That said, I plan on keeping notes on all things I deem significant to have notes made about them (so things like other PCs, locations visited, NPCs met, a timeline of events so far, etc), so hopefully I won't have too much trouble remembering narrative stuff that my character should know. Of course, I could decide my character forgets something (like, if they had low Wis or something, then I could logicise that that might be the case), but I suppose that'll depend on the thing they might've forgotten ;).

[Private to Just_V: Speaking of notes - while I think of it, could you do something for me? I've tried this in another game that started a few months back and it seems to be working nicely sof ar - could you add me to a group all by myself and create a new thread only visible to said group and called it "Caaru's Notes" or something, and then I'll use it to...well, make notes. It's easier to organise and has more space than the scratchpad, and is contained within this game part of this site so I don't have to open any other programs or anything in order to access it. If you wouldn't mind setting that up, that would be great :).]

Caaru has asked for a private group, that way she can both  make multiple threads for organization, and I can see them (versus the scratchpad).

This is a closed game, meaning this isn't a multi-game board. So I have literally a couple dozen groups to use, and so could easily make five groups for player discretion. If you want a private group, for whatever reason, just let me know. Lord Winter I know prefers a more open format, which I can appreciate, but each to their own.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:49, Tue 29 Oct 2019.

The reason for asking for it in the form of a private group was purely so that I can keep my notes, well, private ;). I wouldn't expect people to be trying to read my notebook at a physical table, so this is the same thing ;). I only plan on using one thread, just with multiple posts on different subjects. Not sure if there's a character limit on thread posts but it seems highly unlikely that I'll go over a thousand posts all by myself :D.

@DM: it's okay.  Take all the time you need.  The game will be here when you're ready for it.

Yeah, it's all good - it's been a couple of years since I first made this character and ended up not able to play them as much as I would've wanted due to the game closing down. I'm sure I can wait just as long again, if need be ;).

Let us know if you need to vent, too.  I don't mind being a sounding board for the people I RP with.

In reply to Ryu Zaku (msg # 65):

Much appreciated Ryu, but I tend to be far more vocal and share too freely with my RL affairs. I may take you up on that, but hopefully i won't have to. . Thank you all for the patience. I have some experience from corresponding with Lord Winter, that if the delay is an issue, he will certainly have none with waiting to let me know at a proper juncture--when I'm not so wound tight. Lord Winter is quite the pragmatic. So that clears any worry of a pile of trouble waiting for me.

Simply put, last time I GMed, and had a RL event, two of the seven players were quite ugly. It's made me jumpy. If it was painful IRL, seeing people (in that game) make it worse just put salt lemon juice and glass dust in the wound. It's relief to know there won't be any of that. :) It's always good to give people the common benefit of the doubt, but when you don't know people...wow...it floors you when they surprise you.

Anyway, I'm taking a few days to power down at the very least. I might pop on to the RPoL to read posts of games I play, but probably will just watch T.V. or play a video game in my free time. Otherwise just the necessities; chores, sustenance, and rest. Nothing strenuous, or even taxing. I'm on E.

He lives! :3

Woohoo :D.

Is there anything we can do to lighten the load? I've GMed my share of games and I know that it can be stressful trying to make everything mesh together with unassailable consistency and logic, and I also know that friendly players don't always need that and will happily go along with much less, especially if they've had personal input.

In reply to Lord Winter (msg # 69):

Actually, that last part is probably the only help I need. Most players, I find, can do that though. D&D has long since been a game where you bring your own pickax and shovel and mine for the fun in whatever situation you're in.

Right now my own literal OCD is working through the process, and setting a line of what's necessary and what's just better than enough. To be honest, it's relaxing to do this step, and it makes so much difference later. Once the map is done, it'll serve for a while. It's meticulous but rewarding.

No, I mostly want to shed the RL stuff and ease into this, rather than dive back in. Part of it is wanting to keep RL stuff out of the game, and part of it is being jumpy it'll interrupt again JUST as I'm getting into game.

Of my three games (on RPoL) this is the middle of the line in terms of ease. I run a game that's easier, and I run a game that's more demanding. 4e is actually only difficult in maintenance, and that I've already got Ryu to help with. If anyone else chooses to help with the maps you'll get XP and treasure boosts, but that's the best way you can help. You can't do that yet though. Obviously because we haven't started.

WHEN we start, the two things I find most helpful are updating battle maps, and writing synopses of events, for short hand. I started this process on table-top, as a player funny enough, and when I started to GM I found it a very good way to keep players' memory engaged.

Anyway, I have some more "work" to do, and then I'll comb over sheets for more specific details, and we'll start. Right now I've barely glanced at them; as I like to first make encounters irrespective of the groups' powers, and then fine tune it by going back and looking closely.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:40, Tue 26 Nov 2019.

I don't think that's what I meant by input, but I think your overall message is clear.

In reply to Lord Winter (msg # 71):

Well, what input would you suggest, specifically?
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:37, Tue 26 Nov 2019.

None, if they're not looking for any. If they are, then I couldn't be usefully specific without knowing what kind of input they want. To be clear I'm talking about creative input from players, not input in the form of PC reactions.

Oh. heh. No, creativity is never in short supply in my games. :) While I always encourage that, I never "ask" for it. It's a given. That's funny that someone would have to...like...ask for that. To me that's odd. As far as creativity goes, I don't ever ask for it. If anything I have to stop people from giving away too much, and even that's seldom. People here have already been giving me, what you might call creative input, Caaru foremost, but also the others.

No, my work is logistical. Matching monsters to areas. Matching conflict to imperative action. Matching areas to locations. Matching quests to locations. Matching backgrounds (soon, but not yet) to those locations then. It's all just reading, rereading and sorting. It goes with the territory. It's like making a TCG deck, most of the work is just sorting. While I'd love to share what work I can, this would require a Co-GM to "help" with. It just takes time. Just hours in and hours out. There's no shortcut to that. I suppose, sure I could have you guys plan an encounter, and if you (as whole) want to do that...um...okay sure. I rarely do that, but if that's what you all want to do, sure! Yeah, THAT will "help". But then, why am I here, is the thought that runs through my head. I'd be game for that. ;) Though I'm sure that would be worthwhile, for anyone. xD

That said, if you have an idea, just put it out there. Ideas, however, I have an abundance of. If you want to give an idea, I'll consider it. It won't help me get done any faster, but if you have an idea, by all means give it.

I'm not going to get hung up on it, but I'm baffled for an empirical example of what you call "creative input". Some time, when the time is right, I'd like to know.

Right now though, it's just packaging the world so navigating and resources are observable. Then quests in a way that's imminently available to both the character and players. It's just writing and reading. Nothing cerebral, just very much the "work" that goes into being a GM.
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:35, Tue 26 Nov 2019.

Are you open to explanation as to why it's not odd?


I'm not sure what you mean. Not all DMs approach things this way.


There are shortcuts, and there are ways to make more likely that the effort one is putting forth is going to be worth it.


If you're honestly asking it, there's an answer to that question.

Thanks for the invitation to some input. I'll move forward with it soon.


See, it's the "I'll consider it" that gives me pause. If I don't know how likely an idea is to be used, I'm not sure how much effort to put into it.


Alright, please ask when you want to know.


My point is that there are other approaches. If you like your way, more power to you. Just bear in mind that if you're dissatisfied with any aspect of it, there are other ways.

Consider also that you don't need to have all the world info right now - that seems like a lot of work. Especially as this is as forum-based game, and therefore will run much slower than a tabletop one. I feel as a GM that while it's okay to be active, there seems much more call to be reactive, responding accordingly to whatever the PCs might decide to say or do. No point in setting up some whole big quest line about one thing if it turns out the players find some other (likely completely random) thing far more interesting. Oh, there's a big spooky mansion on the hill? Hmm, yeah, we might check that out, but Bob the frog merchant, who sells edible frog tongues, is running out of stock and just asked us if we wouldn't mind going into the swamp and killing him some frogs. That sounds much more fun!

Disclaimer - Swamps are stinky, slimy, and generally icky. I would probably show symapthy for Bob's plight but otherwise look for other interesting stuff to do in town :D.

But I'm sure you get what I mean - don't worry about building all the world now - we're only gonna see the bits we're interacting with directly (or otherwise hearing about from NPCs and stuff), so we don't have to know the rest of it doesn't actually exist yet :D. And you might find you get some super cool plot idea from something one of our characters says or does - how we interact with each other, or with NPCs, little character traits we have and so on. Feel free to lay out the buffet and see what each of us chooses, then go out to the kitchen and bring out whatever complements that stuff :D.

I agree with this and everything else in that post.

Okay. This does not help me. From the moment I made this game, this has been the mission plan. It;'s remained unchanged. Read it here.Link back to this game.  It's simple guys. You're thinking there's a burden. It's not,  it only became that recently. So stop. If you want to play, focus on the only material I've given. I am making campaign setting. It uses a map. It's based on exploration. Ergo, I am making make to explore. That is literally as far as I've gotten. I tried to tell you this. Instead, I get this above.

So I'll open another thread and we can nitpick there. This has officially gone off topic. I'll open the discussion now.
This message was last edited by the GM at 09:29, Wed 27 Nov 2019.

Umm...what I meant was is it sounds like you're trying to build the entire world before letting us play in it, when you don't need to - you just need to build the bit that we're in, so we can start, and then do the rest in the background while we're busy messing around with whatever's in the area we've started in. Otherwise you might as well have just not bothered calling for players and getting us to join yet, rather finish up the worldbuilding and then look for people to play around in it.

Sorry life has hit you hard, J_V.  Just know I'm rooting for ya, and look forward to anything you do in the future.