This thread will function much like the lounge, for general discussion, but regarding TV shows. WARNING: This thread will contain spoilers, so if you have not seen the tv show or episode in question, be warned you may get more than you wanted.

I have a feeling this thread will be dominated by Dr. Who talk for a while, but other shows will be welcome here as well. I suggest that each poster modifies the Subject line with what tv show they are talking about, to prevent confusion.

So what does everyone think of the new V remake?

And to start things off...

What are all your thoughts on the newest episode? The Doctor hinting at Rory by accident, Vincent mention Amy crying, and so forth?

Or what about the fact that in the episode when Rory was lost, the Doctor was able to reach into the Crack and not cease to exist himself. Is that because he's a time lord himself, or that somehow since he was involved in the Crack's creation it could not therefore destroy him, or it would destroy itself and then would never have existed at all?

Oh I love that show. I watched the original when I was a kid, and the new one is well done. I haven't seen the latest couple of episodes yet, but all I have seen has been good so far. I like how they modernized it and applied the original concept to our 21st century world.

Oh I know... when they were talking in a the first few episodes about how it was such a shame we poor eathlings didn't have universal healthcare, I was like, YES! They are doing modern political commentary! I love all the intrigue and schemes the V have their hands in, and the fact they've apparently been here for years just makes it all the creepier!

Well, maybe she does remember Rory on some level. It was very nice byplay, for sure, and the whole Amy crying and her "I'm not the marrying type" line are perhaps indicative of Rory not being completely erased from her memory. Especially the crying bit.

As to the second question, I never even thought of that. How could he reach into the light without it destroying him, because he tells Amy with surety that anything the light touches cannot escape it. Your theory that he is himself involved in the Crack's creation presents an interesting potential paradox. Maybe it's something that will be explored in the next few episodes leading up to the finale.

Has anyone heard of the show Misfits? I'm thinking of watching it and I am wondering what others thought of it.

@CL: I haven't seen it, but from the name it sounds like something you'd fit into watching just fine. :p

@Kimi: Is it just me, or does this season seam particularly short?

Yes, but I think that's only because I live in the States. Compared to the other seasons, it's the same length. I think 13 episodes is a full order for a BBC show, as compared to the 22 or so that we give our shows in the US.

This may be a dumb question, but does Britain have any other tv channels other than the BBC? I'm sure they do, but it's like that's the only one you ever hear about. Kinda interesting how it's become one of the most famous world wide channels of all time.

BBCkids, Bio, Bravo, CBS, Challenge, Comedy Central, Controversial TV, Quest, Sci fi Channel, Sky, and a bunch of others.

Most of those are American channels. I'm talking about actual British channels...

No, they are the same name but produced by different british broadcasters. Sci-fi, comedy central and others do share the name, but most of the content is different.

Of course they have more than just BBC... they have BBCOne, BBC2, BBC3... ^_^

Lol, they have those too.

What's this new V thing?

It's this show about aliens who are trying to take over the world (what else?). It's a reimagining of a series from the early 80's (kind of like BSG was a reimagining, I guess). Basically, they're called "the Visitors" and they seem all happy and cuddly and friendly-like, but they have a plot to take over the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visitors_%28V%29

a good summary of both the original and modern tv shows and miniseries.

That's pretty good for a wiki article. I'm constantly surprised by how in-depth they can be.

Did anyone here watch lost? I was a Lost skeptic and I have seen a liberal amount of episodes. I'm not a fan, but I do not dispise it. What did everyone think of the ending?

The ending was all I saw, and that was only because my mother insisted on watching it. Still not sure why.

I was there too. Same situation. Never saw a single episode, but then watched the finale because mom wanted to watch it. Something about wanting to understand the zeit geist...

I was not very impressed overall. I didn't pay attention to the hype and the series never gave me a reason to care about the characters.

I rarely pay attention to hype related to reality TV shows. However, I am into anime, and speaking of anime...

Has anyone heard about the 3D Yu-Gi-Oh! movie that's coming to the States soon? I don't know if the plot will be that great, but it's still gonna look good!
This message was last edited by the player at 01:40, Sat 12 June 2010.

No... but I also don't care. Yugioh the anime series got way too campy way too quickly after the first series. Basically I have no respect for anything after Yugi/The Pharaoh and their merry band of card-playing crime-fighters vanished from the series.

I agree with you on that! Seriously, Jaden and Yusei are nothing compared to Yugi and the Pharaoh!

That's why I'm excited for this movie- Yugi and Pharaoh Atem are in it! YAY! I can endure seeing Jaden and Yusei if it means Yugi's there! *huggles Yugi plush toy* What I do know of the plot is that it's a time-travel deal so all three can exist at the same time- and team up to beat a bad guy in a children's card game! :P :D

It always baffled me that they could construct an entire world in which every problem, from schoolyard fights to corporate takeovers, could be (and was) solved using a children's card game.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind a world like the Pokemon world where every problem could be solved by battling with adorable fuzzy animals that you store inside disproportionately tiny capsules for just that purpose, but at least that's a little more realistic... :P

I would have a jolteon. He rocks socks. Anyone excited for pokemon black & white?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, words can't describe the awesomeness.... Next week's episode is going to be epic.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:50, Sun 13 June 2010.

In reply to ChaosLord (msg #28):

Yes! I've been watching the CoroCoro leaked updates on Serebii.net... I'm pondering whether or not I should bother buying a Japanese copy when it comes out... I probably won't (although I have done that in the past... I have a Japanese copy of Pearl) but I also don't really want to wait until next spring to play it...

In reply to Dragon (msg #29):

YESYESYESYESYESYESYES!!!

So, yes. Doctor Who. Brilliant.

Did anyone else aside from me and 'kimi think that he was describing himself when he was saying what was inside the Pandorica in the preview for next week? Because he totally was. Definitely.

Now for some sleep.

Omega.

So, what if he doesn't send a note back to himself?

The Pandorica.  Pandora's Box.  The worst things released, then the barn door was shut after the horse left.  But when she opened the box again, hope came out.

So, what in the world is up with him and sports?  "Can you play football?"  "I don't know, let's find out."  But then he turns out to be some sort of savant?  What?

That was just awesome. The doctor playing soccer. Loved it. :D

Apparently Matt Smith used to play soccer when he was younger.

You're right: http://blog.zap2it.com/fromins...ers-and-us-fans.html

The trailer for Pandorica reminds me of this picture:



...though the tech looks slightly prettier.

Yes... but with more recent series' villains. The only repeats are the Daleks (who are now significantly taller) and the Cybermen (who got appearance upgrades).

You didn't notice the fat Wookies, the guys in the bad rubber suits, and the Nomad wannabes?

It reminds me of this picture:

Nothing says lovin' like something in the oven... and there's already a wedding ring.  I don't know what that means, by the way.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:00, Mon 14 June 2010.

Ooh, what an interesting thought.  Amy pregnant by a man who never existed.

I wonder what recipes they have in that cookbook...

Unfortunately, unless you buy the book, you'll never know... although a few are found at http://outlandinstitute.wordpr...doctor-who-cookbook/

Speaking of kitchens, did anyone else notice the Van Gogh flier/mini poster on the refrigerator at the beginning of the episode?

Upper right hand corner, I didn't notice.

In reply to Kagura (msg #30):

Well if you can (which you can) read japenese then go for the Jap copy. I know I'll go for white. Did you see the new white legendary?

I did see it! And the new black Legendary. They are Dragon/Electric and Dragon/Fire-types respectively.

I'm definitely going to get both games (I always get both of the basic games for each set) but I think I'm going to get Black first. It definitely looks like there will be some awesomeness going on with the new games. I really really REALLY hope that they make it so you can go to at least Hoenn and Sinnoh and collect their gym badges... adding in Johto and Kanto (with the Sevii Islands) would be a super extra awesome bonus if they did that too... I'm one of those people who just hopes beyond hope that one day they'll come out with a game that will let the player travel to all the areas of the pokemon world, crushing Gym leaders along the way... and maybe forcing the player to only use a starter from that region and any pokemon they can catch there... because then you'd be able to get all those. ^_^

Which of the starters do you think you'll start off with in Black/White?

Lol, as much as I don't care, the new Pokemon game sounds racist. I mean, Black and White? Either racist or old-fashioned.

Nah, I think they just ran out of pair-able colors to use, I mean look at all the versions they have out already!

Red/Blue (Green)/Yellow - primary colors
Gold/Silver/Crystal - gold and silver ALWAYS go together
Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald - cabochon stones
FireRed/LeafGreen - I was just surprised that they didn't do "WaterBlue" or something
Diamond/Pearl/Platinum - again, diamonds and pearls are always associated... and platinum is up there in value
HeartGold/SoulSilver - gold and silver revisited... with a little heart and soul

I mean honestly, if they do an "extended" game in the series it will most likely be Grey... and what they'll do for colors after that... well, they can always remake R/S/E, and D/P/Pt while they think about it, I guess...

Mijumara is going to be my starter.

I'm thinking Smugleaf Tsutaja for my first starter. Normally I'd go with the Fire-type, but I'm not really sold on Pokabu... it isn't cute. :P

I really like the Toranaga Pokemon that pretends to be a Happiny until all the other Pokemon are dying -- then it reveals that it's actually a Metagross.

Huh? Which pokemon now?

The Toranaga Pokemon that was first introduced in the Shogun Pokemon release.

Lost is worthless, considering the ending is 'Then everyone died, and nothing matters anymore. Lets all hug, smile, and roll in the credits.'. A WASTE OF MY TIME!!!

How should they have ended it?


This message was last edited by the GM at 23:48, Tue 15 June 2010.

*laughs* I love you FL. :D

Now THAT would have been a good ending. Would have redeemed the entire show. But the way they did it ... its like the writers just got bored of writing, so they decided to bounce ideas off of a slightly retarded four year old with a bad case of ADD, and ended up with the failure that is the 17th and 18th episode of Lost: Season 6. Which reminds me, I just had a delicious portabello mushroom panini with olives, and my cat just took a dump on my carpet. Why am I telling you this? Because I'm too lazy to open facebook, thats why.

Being too lazy to open Facebook is all well and good, but this is the Spoilers thread, not the Lounge, and is therefore not the appropriate place to inform us of such things...

What are you talking about? Lost or Pokemon? Please remember to change the title header so people can keep up.

Wouldn't it be easier to just NOT change the header at all? I mean... does anyone even really pay attention to the headers when they're reading through the posts? I know I don't...

I do if it's a topic I am not familiar with. Like Pokemon, and Lost. I don't watch either one, so I won't have a clue if someone is talking about collecting pocket monsters who got stuck on a desert island along with a bunch of random people who keep disappearing or having wierd things happen so they use their magic to kill each other and save the world... or something.

I thought Pokemon were an quitenssenial part of Lost and Dr Who.

http://www.thedailydust.co.uk/...le-of-the-milky-way/
And you thought it was all just a TV show.  Silence will fall.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh!

You were right Kagura, the whole season centers around Amy, or at least to an extent. Rory returning as a Roman, the Pandorica (which seems to have been empty after all, until they put the Doctor in it), Stonehenge. This whole season has been one big roller coaster ride. Next week, super climax. :D

Of course I was right. :D

But seriously, I've watched enough shows and read enough books that I'm very good at reading the common patterns... and no matter how skillful and/or creative the writing for any book or TV show is, the same kind of themes always make an appearance. You just have to learn what details to look for and take into account the clues left by the writers and it can be very simple to "read" the future of a show. Some shows are more difficult than others though, and it helps to have people to discuss possibilities with as the series progresses.

Totally did not expect the pandorica to be empty though and the doctor to end up being put inside it... that's very odd. I can't wait to see what they do with it next week.

If you'll recall, we were predicting the opposite to be the case when we were talking about it last week...

Isn't it fun being wrong?

Technically speaking, we weren't. We said that we thought the Doctor would be inside the Pandorica... and he was.

... just not when it was FIRST opened. ^_^

See, I knew Rory was coming back.  Ok, so it's not "really" him, but his death was too quick and meaningless for a main character (not enough melodrama) for him to never reappear again.

How much do you want to bet that Rory, who has been fighting his "programming" and isn't hanging out with everyone else, just hangs about for the next couple millenniums and builds himself an Amy, then assumes his place in the village to meet the Doctor as he first comes to the village, explains what happened and changes everything?

I don't know if I'm a fan of this ending.  Just like Lost, everyone dies?  Pfeh.

Also, who's taken control of the TARDIS?  Omega?  The Master?

Oh gosh, where to start.

When I was watching the episode just now and the Doctor was describing what the Pandorica was designed to hold, my thought from last week that it would open and the Doctor himself would be inside it was sort of (technically) right. Except that they put him in instead of him already being there. That was a surprise, especially since historically the Doctor's enemies have been less than willing to work together.

As for Rory, building himself an Amy and waiting for the Doctor to come, I'm not so sure. I mean, Amy exists, in the sense that she will be born in the late 1980s so that she can meet the Doctor. But Rory has to grow up alongside her in order for the whole thing to work out. I think it's going to be up to little Amy, who the Doctor initially meets, to save the world. But it certainly is a time loop, isn't it?

Also, I'm wondering where River Song is going to come in with this. Obviously, the events of "The Time of Angels"/"Flesh and Stone" occur after the events of this episode, because she already knows about the Pandorica in "Time of Angels" and warns Amy against spoilers in this episode. So how can she die now in the explosion of the TARDIS and yet still be alive for the events on the Byzantium and, eventually, "Silence in the Library"/"Forest of the Dead?"

Oh, and Bart? This isn't the ending. There's still another episode to go, next weekend. Remember the date that River Song is at? June 26, 2010. In other words, next Saturday. I suppose whomever is controlling the TARDIS will be revealed then.

EDIT: Actually, I'm thinking the voice in the TARDIS might be the Dream Lord. He did say he'd be back.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:36, Mon 21 June 2010.

When the Doctor jumped up on the rock and gave The Warning to everyone up in space, I just had one thought, "Hubris". :p

Didn't River have a Time Manipulator thingy when she went back to leave the message for the Doctor?  Does it still work or was it a one-shot deal?  Can she use it to get out of the TARDIS?  Did she give it to anyone else (the Doctor, Amy, Rory)?

Maybe Rory built a few Amy's.  I mean, presumably he knows the visits that the Doctor made.  Amy did go on and on about the Raggedy Doctor and his visits (for the longest time I thought they were saying the Rabbity Doctor and I suppose he is a little jumpy but he doesn't have buck teeth or anything).  And even if Rory doesn't have Rory's memories, he has Amy's memories, which is probably even better for knowing when the Doctor came to visit.  Amy moved in after her parents died, right?  What if she never had parents?  What if she was built at 5 by Rory, then placed with her "aunt" who was also built by Rory?  A semi-reclusive life, an Amy at 8, 10, 14, 18?  If she doesn't get out much, spends most of her time out visiting "psychiatrists" in a long-term care situation or "boarding school" (both of which were periods of deactivation) then I think Rory could get away with it.  But why?  If he really was going to build himself an Amy, why not right then?  Maybe he needs a few centuries to build up enough money (compounded annually) or for tech to reach the right level?  And why not just talk to the Doctor when the Doctor comes to visit?

So, maybe Rory really does just build himself an adult Amy.  They live like kings in Patagonia for the next few millennia, give or take a few centuries, then appear to wave at their past selves in that lizard men episode (which solves the problem of where the future Doctor was then, he was in the Pandorica).

RoboAmy and RoboRory then nip over and steal the Tardis.  They take a few centuries learning how to fly it (having all sorts of fun adventures which could become their own spin off TV series), then go back to free the Doctor, somehow.  I haven't worked that part out yet.

Then they go, I don't know, the Doctor apparently thought he could stop the TARDIS blowing up, so they go do that and get River and the future TARDIS and return the past TARDIS and everything goes on like clockwork.

Oh, maybe the lizard people!  The guy narrating it, the wise councilperson, I'm sure he's going to be coming back somehow.  I thought it would be the next week, but it didn't happen then so it must be this next coming week?  I don't see how he could help, but he has advanced tech, perhaps he can unlock the Pandorica.
This message was last edited by the player at 05:25, Mon 21 June 2010.

I'm telling you Bart, the lizard-guy won't be coming back. Why are you so sure that he will? How long have you been watching Doctor Who for? If it's more than just this season, I'd think you'd be able to recognize a MotW by now...

Also, I'm not sold on the Rory building an Amy thing. The centurion Rory is a construct built by the Nestene Consciousness (as seen in "Rose") with either real-Rory's consciousness or Amy's memories of Rory imprinted into him. Therefore he can't possibly have the know-how (or the planning abilities for that matter) to do such a thing as complex as you suggest.

No, I think the answer will be much simpler. A message left behind or perhaps an unexpected ally to re-open the Pandorica (because, as the story goes, once all the evil was let out, the only thing left inside Pandora's Box was Hope).

As for who's controlling the TARDIS... the Dream Lord was my first thought as well, 'kimi, but then I wasn't so sure. The Dream Lord didn't seem like a "destroy the multiverse" type so much as a "destroy the Doctor" type. Remember, he's the part of the Doctor that hates himself a LOT, and while destroying the universe is a very good way to get at the Doctor, making the Doctor doubt himself/isolate himself is a MUCH better way. Also, I was trying to think about which of the Doctor's enemies would have that line - "Silence will fall." but it doesn't seem to fit with any of his current enemies very well. Davros/the Daleks want to destroy all other forms of life, but that wouldn't be "silence", likewise for the Cybermen, and all of the others are either warlike species (Soltarans) or types that depend on other species being around for trade (Slitheen) or because they're mercenaries (the rhinoceros-looking aliens), or they just want to take over other planets because their own can't support them anymore (Nestene). Even the Master didn't want "silence", he just wanted to be Emperor of the Universe or whatever.

Well, whatever, I guess we'll see next week...

The rhinos are called Judoon, and it's Sontaran, not Soltaran.

The Doctor is locked in the Pandorica. The Doctor = Hope.

The Homoreptilia weren't MotW; they were there, part of the alliance that put the Doctor in the box. But I don't think that the Homoreptilia councilperson is the voice in the TARDIS -- he was peaceful, remember? It was the soldier part of the species that wanted to take over the world.

Because it had a lot of unresolved plot points.  Even if it's not going to be brought back right now, it will be coming back, perhaps next season, or as a spinoff.  I still think the Indian woman will be a future Doctor Who Companion, somehow.  Also, the wise council guy has "already" woken back up (or never went to sleep) because he was narrating from the very beginning and at the very end, including parts that he "shouldn't" have known.  I think there's something fishy with that.


Who else would be so anxious to have Silence Fall than the guy who's been driven insane by the constant coded drum beats of war that have been sounding in his head for untold millenia.  That's my hypothesis, anyway.

No, it really didn't.



No. She's more like the one-shot companions that the Doctor has had in the past. And he HAS had one-shot companions. Jenny, the nurse from "Human Nature"/"Family of Blood" that John Smith fell in love with, not to mention the "multi-shot" companions - the individuals who recurred in the series like Wilf and River Song. Companions that show up every now and then, do the companion thing, then vanish off, never to be heard of again until they're needed.



What? No. Just because he was the narrator does NOT make him relevant. It just makes him a narrator for two paired episodes. There aren't usually narrated episodes in Doctor Who, but that doesn't make the single narrator ever important in the slightest. It just means that someone new was writing the episode with a slightly different style (and it was a new writer).



Again, the Master DOES NOT HATE THE DOCTOR. Not really. If you read their history more carefully, you can see that they were friends before they were both taken to look into the Untempered Schism. The Master is JEALOUS of the Doctor, because the Doctor is everything that the Master cannot be, and has everything that the Master wants. The Doctor, from whom forgiveness was the worst and last thing the Master wanted to hear. The Doctor who finally heard the "drums", who finally believed the Master, and whom the Master worked TOGETHER with when it mattered the most because they trusted each other. Trusted IN each other. They're really more like... brothers. Without the blood relation.

Also, the Master has a better way of hurting the Doctor as well. He proved it in "Utopia"/"The Sound of Drums"/"The Last of the Time Lords" when his wife shot him and he refused to regenerate. He knows that the Doctor is lonely and that he just wants companionship from another Time Lord.

Not to mention the fact that, for all intents and purposes, the Master is dead... or locked inside the Time War. That wasn't really clear at the end there. One way or the other, he won't be back in the near future. It's too soon for him to be the "big bad" again.

... hmm... now THERE's a thought... which of the Doctor's nemeses haven't been the "big bad" since the original series? We've had Daleks (series 1), Cybermen (series 2), The Master (series 3), and Davros (series 4)... did the Doctor have any other major enemies than those? He must have, right? Who are we missing? Can't be the Time Lord Council since they (technically) don't exist anymore. And it's unlikely to be anything that's just been MotW, so that leaves out pretty much everything else that we've seen in the past five years except for, hmm, the Sontarans, the Judoon and -maybe- the Slitheen... but the strategy isn't direct enough to be Sontaran, the Judoon have been said to be mercenaries and to work for the Shadow Proclamation, and the Slitheen... well, I don't think that they have the technology to hack the TARDIS from the outside, seeing as the one who was Lord Mayor of Cardiff had to trick the Doctor into attaching her tech to the TARDIS for her to hack the TARDIS's systems...

No.

I never said that he did. :)  I said he's had this incessant noise in his head all his life that's basically driven him insane and he wants it to stop.  Getting rid of the Doctor is just a byproduct of that, basically -- if the Doctor is going to try to stop the silence, then the Doctor has to be eliminated, I guess.  I never said that the Master hates the Doctor.

I thought that the Master couldn't regenerate because he'd used up all his lives escaping from the black hole that the Doctor had put him into earlier.

Unless you see a cold dead body, nobody is ever really permanently dead (and even then sometimes they still come back).

Is this still a dream?  Could the "Time Lord" be behind this?  We had a dream within a dream, has all of that been within another dream?

It could be Omega.

No, if you watch the very end of those episodes, when the Doctor is begging the Master to regenerate, the Master refuses to regenerate. Also, in the original series it was mentioned or hinted that the Master had somehow found a way to circumvent the 13-regeneration limit cap, or that he'd gotten a new set for doing something for the Time Lord Council. Either way he's got MORE than enough regenerations left.



Yes, that's why I included the possibility that he's trapped inside the Time War.



Did you mean the "Dream Lord"? That's certainly not outside the realm of probability since the "Dream Lord" did show evidence that he would return at some point in the future. Unlike the homoreptilia.



Who?

He was some powerful evilish guy from an antimatter version of our universe.

Omega? Lol, like O'malley from Red vs Blue? Now that would be an interesting combination of shows...

Hmm. Yeah. If he was a big villain from back in the good old days of Doctor Who, then that's a definite possibility. Plus, it makes sense with everything that's going on.

Okay. My vote is for Omega. ^_^

Omega would be a grand BB, just not for this storyline.  I could see him wanting to destroy the Universe, and perhaps rebuilding it in his image.  But wouldn't it be a odd twist for folks who started watching with the new series and aren't familiar with him?  With most of the other BBs, The Master, the Cybermen, the Daleks, etc., there was some build up.

I'm betting that it has something to do with Prisoner Zero, the big floaty eye thingy, and the mysterious absence of Amy's parents when she was a little girl.  (Perhaps she really is Patient Zero?)

No, because Prisoner Zero delivered a cryptic warning about the events to come, meaning that it CAN'T be the BB for the series. It's the "fortune teller" for the series. The one MotW-type character that gives the big hint as to what's going to happen. Like the Ood calling the Doctor and Donna the "Doctordonna" or Bad Wolf appearing throughout the entire first series (as well as an episode of Torchwood).

And actually, The Master wasn't really explained before he just showed up in "Utopia" and then we got explanations on who and what he was REALLY in the season finale episodes "The Sound of Drums"/"Last of the Time Lords". I mean, even though whenever they returned to contemporary Earth during that series and we saw or heard about Harold Saxon and the election for prime minister or about the Archangel network (yes, it was mentioned once - I think it was in "The Sontaran Strategy"), we didn't really realize that they had ANY importance until the finale. The Cybermen didn't really get much build up either. They just sort of appeared as ghosts before manifesting properly and being Cybermen at Canary Wharf.

The Daleks got an explanation ahead of time because there was more to them than just themselves. Davros didn't get an explanation when he was the BB though. He just showed up.

Ok what the heck's BB? Big Boss? And while we're on the subject... what exactly is MotW? Monster of the week?

BB stands for Bnai Brith and MotW means Marigolds on tiny Wings.  I hope this clarifies things.

Don't confuse the boy... dragon... whatever, FL. It's not nice. :P

Dragon, BB stands for "Big Bad" and yes, MotW does mean Monster of the Week.

Oh I got one right? Wow! I was just randomly guessing...

Does anyone here watch true blood? Is it worth netflixing?

'kimi watches it. I read the books that it's based off of, but I won't watch the show.

Unless you're a girl, Power2, you probably won't like it.

I dunno, my friend and I never read the books and (according to our birth certificates, at least, our girlfriends might disagree) are men and we both enjoy it. It's a guilty pleasure, I guess. Season 2's DVD is actually on my desk, literally three feet from me, right now.

... really? There are guys who watch TrueBlood? Weird.

The books are basically supernatural romance novels. And when I say "romance novels" I'm referring to those works that you find in the Romance section of bookstores with the lurid covers and a plot that you aren't really reading the book for. The ones that are designed for lonely, bored housewives. >.>

I don't read romance novels. Really.

*shrugs* Like I said, never read the books so I can't comment on them, but the show is good. Geared for women, but still plenty there for us guys to enjoy.

I almost phrased that last "...to sink my teeth into," but the pun police in my head just wouldn't let me.

I'm glad that the pun police stopped you from actually using that in a sentence... but why didn't they stop you from even mentioning it?

All this talk of supernatural romance made me want to go read one of the raciest Labyrinth fanfictions that I have bookmarked... very racy. It's a guilty pleasure. ^_^

Kagura, that's just gross.

What? The fact that I read Labyrinth fanfictions that are essentially dimestore romance novel wannabes? Isn't it better than actually spending money on bad romance novels?

"Fanfiction in general gets a thumbs down, because of its badness."

You've obviously been reading the wrong fanfictions then. You just have to find the people who can write well. It's difficult, but not impossible.

"The people who can write well are already artists writing or not old enough to have been taken in by the biz."

Not true. I can prove it.

First, allow me a little vanity and read the one and only fanfiction that I've ever written: http://www.fanfiction.net/~shiroikami

It's not awful. Then, go and read some of the Labyrinth fanfictions that I've favorited. All of them are of reasonable to high quality. Also, for a really interesting and well-written crossover fiction, read Bobcat's "The Ballad of the Physics Police". It's hilarious and involves making fun of pretty much everything it touches. :D

You're mostly just being deceived by Sturgeon's Law (or Sturgeon's Revelation, as the man himself calls it), CL - "Ninety percent of everything is crud." It's just that most of that 90% (the worst part) is hidden from consumers in published materials - the editors (poor suckers) filter it out. With fanfiction, it's all right there.

I will admit that the percentages might be worse for fanfiction (95% or more is probably crud) because it amounts to a shortcut in many cases - lazy writers take it as a way to avoid having to build a world or characters. But that last 5% can still be absolutely awesome.

Yes, it's incredibly difficult to separate the good stories from the bad, but I have standards to what I will read. No short chapters, nothing with low readability due to poor spelling or grammar (there is one story that I've taken on to beta-read whose author, I'm almost certain, does not speak English as her first language, so while the story itself has potential, the readability is almost zero... I do hope to fix that)

"Thanks for that Germ. Some fanfics are fine, a few are good. It is not incredibly difficult to separate it. I would first need to find a good fanfic, then all the others would be compared to it. The grammar would be the first thing I would look at (readability), followed by rhetoic and more complicated literary aspects."

There are some good fanfictions out there, but I have to avoid most fanfictions, especially ones that delve into yaoi. Man, I dislike that stuff... I'm actually a fanfiction writer myself - on fanfiction.net, my profile is Mew Universe (in case anyone is interested...).

Germ - fanfiction may be a way some writers write without making their own worlds. I see fanfiction as a way of perfecting my writing. If I can write well for characters other have made, then I can write well for characters and worlds of my own creation. It's basically my way of practicing using my talents.

It can be more challenging to write for a character who was created by another person, which character has an attitude and desires and habits that you didn't create and that you can't really change.  When you're writing for something that you created, then you have a little more freedom.

And since this is the spoilers thread...

ROSEBUD IS HIS SLED!

What fandoms do you write, Dawna? And on top of that, do you consider your stories to be any good? (There's a reason I've only actually posted one story in my entire 10 years or so on ff.net...) ^_^



True and yet not. Take the Labyrinth fandom, for example. Jareth, the Goblin King has a basic template that everyone works from (he's David Bowie if David Bowie were a magical otherworldly king) but aside from basic appearance (and to be honest, people can't even agree on THAT... it's about the eyes ^_^) he's got more personalities than a politician. One particular writer, Subtilior, consistently writes him as otherworldly evil. The Devil. The Erlking. While others will write him more human in his emotions. Sometimes he's mad at Sarah for beating his Labyrinth and rejecting his eternal love and wants only revenge, sometimes he's forgiving. Sometimes he has family (most often his parents are the High King/High Queen of the Fae - Oberon and Titania) other times he sprang, fully formed, from the void or whatever.

Of course, he gets a grand total of about 20 minutes of screen time for us to figure out his personality in the movie, but that's TOTALLY not the point. :D

Mew Universe: "Author has written 6 stories for Legend of Zelda, Sailor Moon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pirates of the Caribbean."

Not a hard search.



I certainly never said those using it as a shortcut were in the majority. Simply that they're there, and in greater numbers than is possible in published literature.



For the good fanfic writers, that's certainly true. However, there are plenty who take the easy part (readers already identify with the characters - no need to make them interesting yourself) without taking on the hard part (making sure the character acts and thinks like the canon character). This results in bad fanfic.

"The Erlonkonig is not a devil. He is a fey king who steals children to live with him and play with his daughters for eternity... Labyrinth was such a let down."

"Still agreeing with Germ about the fanfics. The internet has given rise to many easy ways to make people accessable to a lot of writing, but most of it is poor. I have found some good writing online, but it is mostly archived from the Victorian era on a University website."

Yes, I know. But he's also a spectre of death. If you don't believe me, read the poem "Erlkonig". Subtilior's version of Goblin King-as-Erl King is true to that vision... and makes for a damn creepy and very well-written fanfic.

Here, have the url: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3509200/1/Erlkonig
This message was last edited by the player at 17:58, Fri 25 June 2010.

"I have read the poem Erlkönig… where exactly do you find that he is a specter of death? He is the elf-king and a siren like figure who kills with his touch."

Germ basically answered the first question, lol. I've posted a LoZ story, two Sailor Moon stories, a Sailor Moon/Yu-Gi-Oh crossover fic, and a "trailer" of sorts for a Yu-Gi-Oh/PotC idea I have. Mostly I write for Sailor Moon and Yu-Gi-Oh!

Do I consider my stories good? Well, I like my ideas, and a lot of people say my writing is good. So, probably yes. (Oddly enough, my most popular fanfic is the SM/YGO crossover called "The Moonlight Warrior of Egypt). What's your ff.net username, Kagura?



Yeah, ain't that the truth... I run into that so much it bothers me. One Yu-Gi-Oh fanfic I came across wrote in Tea (the canon girl) as a complete jerkette, when in the show she's kind and supportive of her friends. The rest of the story was hilarious, but I hated how OOC Tea was in it.



I wish I knew Labyrinth well enough to appreciate the fic... I've never seen the movie.

How do I love Doctor Who?  Let me count the spoilers...

1...

...2...

...3...

...4...

"Trust the plastic!"

Gotta love Rory. :D

For a moment, I thought that they were going to put a piece of fairy cake into the Pandorum.

"You are LATE TO MY WEDDING!"

"Do you ever feel like you're forgetting something really important?"
"Yep."
"Are you just saying "Yeah" because you're scared of me?"
"Yep."

SO good. I wish the seasons were longer than 13 episodes. Now I can't wait for Christmas!

I posted a link to my ff.net profile a little while ago. I think it's about at the top of this page or the bottom of the one before.

EDIT: Yep, this page. Post #100



Well THAT problem is easily rectified... get it from Netflix and watch it. David Bowie and Jennifer Connelly with muppets. It's awesome. And the pants are criminally tight. ^_^

ON the note of Doctor Who now... how awesome was that? And with that lead in, I can't WAIT for the Christmas special!

Steven Moffat is god. His writing is so brilliant. I can't WAIT for the next season when they go chasing after the "Silence will fall" voice (which I'm still betting on being Omega... even moreso now since they now have an entire 'nother season to make him the BB). *sits and waits impatiently for it to be Christmas*
This message was last edited by the player at 02:27, Mon 28 June 2010.

I am now willing to believe that it is Omega.

And River Song is...?

Dead. If you saw "Forest of the Dead".

Other than that... I don't think she's a Time Lord. Unless she's the Master regenerated. The Doctor -has- implied in the past that it would be possible for him to regenerate as a female, so it's not outside the realm of possibility. But I still kind of doubt it. I do think that she's human. And definitely special since she's the only person that the Doctor has ever told his true name to... and names have power... Of course, it could just be that she's a very talented con-artist, which we know she is. We also know that in the recent times she's been visited, she's been a criminal, and that when we saw her in "Silence in the Library"/"Forest of the Dead" that she was a professor (or at least she'd convinced the group she was with that she was), which indicates a career change of sorts. We also know that she keeps a "spoilers" diary to keep her meetings with the Doctor straight. She can be at least as frustrating with her answers as the Doctor himself.

One possibility is that she has a grudge against the Doctor that she hides VERY well, knowing that the event for which she holds a grudge against him hasn't happened yet... for him. Again, I think this is unlikely, but it is a definite possibility.

According to Confidential, The Silence and River Song will be explained in next year's series. I am intensely interested to know about both of those things, especially River Song and how she fits into the Doctor's life. It is exceedingly frustrating that they keep meeting out of time order. But then, it wouldn't really be Doctor Who if they didn't.

What did we decide Omega was again? *goes to look it up*

... because that wasn't apparent WITHOUT watching Confidential? I had kind of already figured that out...

Don't you use your sarcastic voice on me, Kagura.

No, what I meant is, They were planning on keeping The Silence and River Song for next year anyway (curse you, Steven Moffat and your cliffhangers -- no, I'm kidding, I really don't mind...much), so now we get a full 9 months or so to speculate on them. I don't think that the Christmas special will have much, if anything, to do with either.

No, I agree with that. I think that the Christmas special will have something to do with an Egyptian goddess loose on a train. It will be brilliant, as usual. ^_^

Ok so who is this Omega character you brought up? I don't recall anyone by that name in any of the new seasons, and I'm not familiar enough with the old to know if he's from there... and if he is, why bring him back as a villain here that nobody's heard of before?

He's a Time Lord. More specifically, he and Rassilon worked together to make Gallifreyans the Time Lords. But Omega got caught in some kind of singularity, and went crazy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_%28Doctor_Who%29

As someone else pointed out, a completely new villain is, well, completely new.  For the new viewers, an old villain is also completely new.  So, really, the only difference between bringing back an old villain and bringing in a new villain is that the old viewers get an extra kick out of it.  So, why not bring back an old villain and give the old viewers an extra treat?

Anyway... I thought that RoboRory would fly the Pandorica out.  He's not "supposed" to be there and he can't compete with the new Rory and would be completely erased anyway.  I thought he'd go rip the time bracelet off the doctor's arm.

So... Amy Pond finally snapped, eh?  She's sitting there, twitching, in a lunatic asylum and the Doctor (and the rest of the show) is a figment of her imagination.  That's the only thing I can figure that would explain what happened there.  Bloody deus ex machina.

Edit: What must have "actually" happened to Amy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHQqcSIc5mM

Further Edit: By the way, who else clapped their hands when the doctor rolled down the stairs dead?  http://www.elook.org/literatur...f-peter-pan/216.html  That's right, it was my clapping that bought him enough time to make it to the Pandorica, to hook everything up, then to have one final speech before he warped himself into the TARDIS.  Well, me and everyone else who clapped.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:45, Mon 28 June 2010.

Oh so NOW you think that keeping the show the way it is is just fine, hm?



Don't be silly. Didn't you pay any attention at ALL? The Doctor, by flying the Pandorica into the explosion of the TARDIS, made it so that the explosion of the TARDIS never happened, and Amy, by sheer force of will, made it so that Rory and her parents DID exist. Plus, Rory just isn't that heroic.



What do you mean?



I didn't because he couldn't really be dead... Time Lords REGENERATE when they're about to die, and The Doctor likes living too much to not regenerate. At the time I just figured that he would do something to change that bit of timeline when he got so badly burned...

Chough...cough...The Rani...cough...cough...Romana...cough...cough...Susan...cough...cough...Jenny...cough...cough...
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:35, Mon 28 June 2010.

No, I really don't think she's Jenny. He never told Jenny his real name, and Jenny, being his daughter, wouldn't call him "my love". That would just be creepy.

The other three... mmm, maybe, but again, the chances are low for those as well... I guess we'll just have to wait until next season.

Incest has always been a selling point to audiences that enacts horror. Jenny could be his daughter lover.

Susan was his granddaughter. I don't think she'd be calling him "my love" either. Maybe the Rani or Romana, but somehow I don't think so. Romana in particular was a companion of the Doctor's, not an enemy like the Rani.

I'm sure there will be some kind of preview-type thing at the end of the Christmas special in 6 months.

Rrrgh! Six months!! I don't want to wait six freaking months for the next Doctor Who!!!

I was just joking about Susan and Jenny, but I wanted to make a point about the presence of female Time Lords (Ladies?)

Romana is also pretty unlikely as I got the impression that the as yet releaved truth will put the Doctor on the wrong side of the River Song. (That's in China, right?)

I'm not pleased with myself for jumping on the "if she is a strong female character in the new Doctor Who series, she must be The Rani" bandwagon, but The Rani is the most likely change of face for (Ms.? Mrs.? Dr? Prof.?) M. Song. Though her eventual, (and very human,) death does put that whole train on thought into doubt.

@FL: Yes, it is always good to keep in mind that there are female Time Lords (I don't think they're Time Ladies, since the race is the Time Lords).

There's a bandwagon that says that? I think I missed that memo.

@Kagura: No one does. But we do it anyway because we don't have a choice in the matter.

I'm ok with a six month wait for the Christmas special.  It'll make season 6 seem that much closer.

Though it would be nice to have two specials, one in three months and then the Christmas one.

Does Children in Need count? They always do something for that. That's in November.

In reply to FourLegged (msg #132):

Really? Because I thought the bandwagon was "if she's a strong female character in the new Doctor Who series she must be a Tyler or a Noble"...

I can't, in good conscience add the Jones ladies in there because the only one of THEM who was really strong was Martha... her mum and sister were complete twits except in "The Last of the Time Lords"... and then after that Martha had to stick around to take care of them because they couldn't handle remembering all those things that happened...

Ok, maybe I'm about to be too technical, but the whole premise of that last episode seems very illogical to me...

Ok so the Pandorica was going to set the universe back to the way it was supposed to be by using the exploding TARDIS to permeate all of space-time through the cracks in the universe. That much makes sense. What does not make sense, however, is the part where the Doctor, in so doing, would never have existed at all. How can the Doctor never have existed if the universe was set back the way it was supposed to be? The Doctor is an integral part of so many events, for him never to have existed means that the things he did never happened, so how could the universe be 'normal' without him having saved it from destruction because he never existed?

I refer you back to the episode 'Turn Left' to see the drastic changes in the time line if, because of Donna never meeting him, the Doctor dies, and all of history from then on changes. With him not there to make the difference so many people die and everything is ruined. So in this episode, if the doctor is erased from history, everything he did never happened, therefore how could the universe be 'normal' without him? And furthermore, how can 'remembering' someone who never existed force reality to bend around you and make them come back? How does that make sense? It's like one of those mind-over-matter things where you can imagine you can walk through a cement wall and then try to do so... unless you're really though that's not gonna happen.

Anyway, I love Doctor Who, always have. But this episode made about as much sense as the endings to most anime series...

Okay, first, I agree, the universe without the Doctor is a paradox, but we have to assume that it would have been compensated for.

Second, I thought it was made pretty clear that only Amy, the girl who had grown up with the entirety of time and space pouring into her mind through the Crack, could bring back an existence by remembering it. Nobody else would have been able to do it, not even the Doctor himself. Point and fact - even though the Doctor remembered Rory, plastic Rory didn't become "real" Rory until Amy remembered him.

And third... what do you mean most anime series endings don't make sense? You must not have seen very much anime. Probably only like, Eva and Lain... the ones that don't make sense to ANYBODY... but there are plenty of series whose endings make perfect sense. I mean, have you seen the ending of, oh, Ouran High School Host Club? How about Kyou Kara Maoh? Angelic Layer? Hikaru no Go? Kage Kara Mamoru?Kaleido Star? Princess Princess? I could keep listing titles, you know.

... as I was looking through my DVDs of anime though, I realized something: I haven't finished many of the longer series that I have, nor a handful of the shorter ones, and most of what I HAVE finished, the endings are pretty complex because the entire story was a little hard to follow to begin with. In other words, I don't exclusively watch the kiddie shows... although my broken external hard drive DOES have the entire series of Megaman NT Warrior on it... I need to re-download that at some point...

.... Wow, I wish I watched more Dr. Who, now...

No you don't. It will suck you in until you snap and go find the producer to threaten him for new episodes.

Eh, my current obsession is with Yu-Gi-Oh anyways, and I wish Takahashi-san made more episodes featuring Yugi and his friends.

"Yugioh? I remembered when I actually played the card game. In the show they rarely follow the rules."

'I summon THREE blues eyes white dragons!'
"He didn't even sacrifice a single creature, and since when can you play 3 at once?"

Later on they started following the sacrifice rules and so on. After the Duelist Kingdom arc ended.

I actually run a Yugioh game here. It's just straight up dueling, no silly roleplaying or whatever. It's a good way for people who will otherwise never meet to play around and test deck ideas... or dream decks. Of course, our players tend to have a problem with real life... it interferes quite often.

*fix'd
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:37, Tue 29 June 2010.

Yeah, the sacrificing rule didn't come into play until the Battle City arc, but yeah, they did mess up most of the other rules. For example:

- You can never play a monster in face-up Defense position; either it's face-up Attack or face-down Defense

- Certain Magic cards in the show are treated as Quickplay cards when they aren't

- Kaiba does manage to summon 3 Blue Eyes in one turn several times (when you can only Normal Summon one monster at a time)

- In Duelist Kingdom they kept calling Monster Reborn "Reborn the Monster" (which still bugs me without end!)

- It's never clear when a player's turn ends.

Uh, I think I'll stop my prattling there... I'm already enough of a freak... But, here's something about YGO you probably didn't know:

When it was still a manga, Yu-Gi-Oh! was never intended to focus on the card game. It began as the story of Yugi, a shy game-loving high school student, who after eight years finally solves the Millennium Puzzle. After that, whenever Yugi or his friends are in trouble, he would transform into Dark Yugi and challenge villians to a Yami No Game (Shadow or Dark Game). Most of the time the games varied, ranging from piecing together a broken mirror blindfolded to not holding the last rose of a bouquet to stabbing a stack of money on your hand with a knife without stabbing your hand (yes, they're uuber twisted). Then, Dark Yugi would inflict a Penalty Game on the loser; this game was actually either a twisted illusion or some other mind-altering experience, usually one that would stick with the loser for life. [I got all this info from snippets of volumes 1-7 of the manga and Yu-Gi-Oh season 0 (which was never dubbed into English)]

Why did the focus change to the card game? Apparently in Japan, the manga publishing company got so many letters from readers asking how to play Duel Monsters, Takahashi-san decided to focus more on the game and define its rules. If only he'd seen how much of a phenomena it's become... *sigh* Anyways, I like the show more for the characters, anyways!

What's that about?
What was that about me saying that I like it fine the way it is?


Yeah, I just find that highly, immensely, incredibly, absolutely implausible.  Yes, I accept fire breathing dragons, a beneficially radioactive man, a fairy, an intelligent koala, a chaotic Lord of Ferrets with a white Leopard sidekick, a floating radioactive brain and a, I don't know, whatever Germ Ant is (as well as all the other people that I'm just not happening to mention at the moment).  But I draw the line at a crazy girl from Leadworth who's dreamed all her life of a time traveling raggedy doctor who suddenly snaps at her wedding, jumps up, starts screaming and carrying on... and apparently flees reality to enter into her own dream state where she has magically brought back a time traveling alien while she visits all sorts of wonderful and exciting places.

Obviously it is nothing more than pure wish fulfillment and she's retreated from her otherwise dull and ordinary existence into this imaginary land of fantasy.  As she joyfully called out at the end of the episode, she has said goodbye to the world and has happily retreated into the warm comfort insanity, ignorant of what is actually going on around her and how her twitching physical body has been strapped down so that she doesn't harm herself -- ignorance, after all, being bliss.

And the Doctor doesn't court paradox -- if he knows that he dies, then he can't come back and change it or else how would he have known to change it?

From a meta standpoint, I think the final episode this series was written to be the last episode.  Doctor Who's been limping along for a long time now -- canceled a couple of times.  I think this was his last hurrah, but then it took off so well this year and people would rather work and keep making the show than all go look for other jobs, so they had to rewrite it so that it all just keeps going.

Seriously?

Are you kidding us here?  Is this some kind of joke?

You cannot honestly expect us to believe that load of complete nonsense.

I'm shocked and stunned at the audacity of such a ludicrous claim.

An intelligent koala?!

*FourLegged shakes his head in disgust and walks out of the thread*

In reply to Dawna (msg #144):

Yeah, Season 0 was awesome. I downloaded it from the only group that did subtitle it. It's really awesome. My favorite bit was the one game where he made the guy who was all obsessed with watches think that his watches were growing into his arms... that was awesome. ^_^



Cite your source.

Dear Bart
If you really don't like Doctor Who that much, why do you watch it?

I usually really like it.  I just really didn't like the last part of that last episode, though.

Are you kidding? I loved it. Probably my favorite part. Especially when Amy says, "I remember you, raggedy man, and you are LATE FOR MY WEDDING!"

It makes perfect sense. She has the power to bring him back because of the crack that in her wall/the universe. Like the Doctor says, she's the girl who had the whole of the universe pouring into her mind when she was a kid, which gave her the power to bring him back after he told her the story about his old/new/borrowed/blue TARDIS. She just needed the trigger of the phrase.

Except you've been saying things all season that make it seem like you just don't like the series... also, I'm still waiting for you to cite your source for that information that you imparted on us...

In reply to Dawna (msg #144):

I saw some of Yu-gi-oh Season 0. I thought it was the best one. I also didn't like it how stuff like this happened in the show, but not in the card game:
I play Dark Magician! _{Without sacrificing a creature.}
I shoot your floating castle causing it to fall and crush all of your monsters!
I make a billion Kuribos that can be fired from Catapult turtle, defend me, or cause your monsters to be outnumbered and cry.

Don't need a quote for that, it's my opinion.

1989's decision by Jonathan Powell where Doctor Who ended up going off the air (except for a movie, which didn't do too well) until 2003, then the hiatus from the air in 2009 as well (except for some short movies).

My opinion again. :)

I have said in ASWoT that I like the series.  I think I've only argued with you about Rory coming back (since, from a meta viewpoint, I felt that he "had" to come back as his death was far too quick and meaningless for a "main character" in the first season of a series revamp).

Also, I wasn't so much a fan of the ending of the second to last episode, but mentally I'm bundling that one together with the last episode and just mentally sort of ignoring both of those episodes.

OOoooo, that one was soooo creepy awesome! My younger brothers were watching it over my sister when I was, and they were all like, "That's scary!" and "That's gross!" and "What the heck?!" My personal favorite was the rose-picking Yami No Game, although I also loved the first one (with scaling up and down based on face cards) and the mirror one. Oh, heck, I love all the Shadow Games from season 0!



I remember the floating castle thing! I was confused by that, too... Aw! The millions of Kuribohs are my favorites! It's like "FURRY WALL OF DOOOOOOOM!!!"

I wasn't asking for a citation on THAT...



Okay, first, it wasn't actually cancelled in 1989, it was a "suspension of production". And second, the reason that it went on hiatus in 2009 was because pretty much the ENTIRE crew was changing. David Tennant was leaving. Russell T. Davies was leaving. But the four specials thing WAS planned ahead of time. Viewers KNEW that 2009 would only be four specials leading up to the regeneration... or they did if they paid attention to things like Doctor Who Confidential, BBC's website and the fan sites...



Actually, that's technically a real thing, the launching thing. Catapult Turtle is an Effect Monster whose effect is "You can Tribute 1 monster to inflict damage to your opponent equal to half of its ATK." Of course, using "Multiply" doesn't exactly work that way, so the effect wouldn't be the same, but the shooting things at the floating castle, that could -almost- work...

I'm always amused when Bandit Keith takes Pegasus hostage with his angry words and his pointing finger of DOOM! ^_^
This message was last edited by the player at 02:35, Wed 30 June 2010.

LOL! Keith is so dumb - I love that scene!

Keith: Oooh, I'm mad! I'll take you hostage with the tip of my finger!

Pegasus: [yawns] Really? [pushes button] Goodbye.

Keith: What the- [falls through hole]

That's the one time I've really like Pegasus the entire series!

Hmm, any of you know of any English fansubs for that?

In reply to Dawna (msg #156):

I was actually mocking it because in the original version, before 4Kids got their hands on it, Keith was holding a gun... but guns are BAD, and kids should NEVER know about them ever in ever... so they edited the gun out... -.-



Yes. TVNihon (a fansub group) did the first 27 episodes (or maybe it was the entire series, but I don't think so) plus the one movie for Season 0. I don't know how good the seeds are anymore, but here's the link to their tracker page for it. http://tvnihon.com/tracker/browse.php?cat=28
This message was last edited by the player at 13:45, Wed 30 June 2010.

The same thing happened with pokemon to the point that the show has almost nothing to do with the card game or videogames.

Are you kidding? Aside from the fact that it's about fighting with animals that you keep in scientifically unrealistic capsules and traveling the world as a little kid, the show has NEVER really had anything to do with the video games or the TCG...

Up to the episode where Ash aimed for the horn and scored a critical hit on a ground type pokemon with an electric attack it was fairly accurate with the videogames.

The castle was my favorite moment in the show, other than the Kiba dark clown they fought on dualist island.

So far as I can tell none of that stuff happened in Doctor Who. Don't forget to change your title headings here people. Even if you don't use them yourself other people do. Try to be considerate...

Explicit defiance.

Uh, no it wasn't? The main character in the video games never overslept, didn't have to start with a Pikachu (until Yellow) because they had done so, never stole a bike because their Pikachu got sick, etc. etc. etc.

Outside of the VERY basic plot (fighting monsters, Team Rocket = evil organization, gotta catch 'em all, get 8 gym badges and get to the Indigo Plateau) there was absolutely nothing the same between the plots of the anime and video game. Even the basic plot points differed, and here's how:

Team Rocket - in the video games, Team Rocket NEVER actively attempted to steal the main character's pokemon, whereas in the anime an (admittedly dense) team of Rockets doggedly chased after the main character and his team for the sole purpose of stealing the main character's starter pokemon. Even in Yellow, that didn't happen.

Going to the Indigo Plateau - the Pokemon League isn't topped by four (five if you count the Champion) super gym leaders in the anime, it's a tournament. The E4 don't exist. At all. Although the League Champion (Lance) does.

Everything else, well, the gotta catch 'em all thing... Ash keeps letting his pokemon go, so I don't think he really wants to catch everything... plus, up until VERY recently he really only used Pikachu unless there was some major type-advantage to be had... and even THEN he used Pikachu when all else failed.

I know that - it was pretty obvious when I was watching it. It was also obvious in an earlier episode when Pegasus's goons went after Kaiba.

Now this makes me think of one Yami No Game from season 0, where Yami Yugi challenges a criminal (who's holding Anzu at gun point) to a game with only one rule. Now that one is for sure my favorite!!!

Sorry I didn't clarify earlier but I meant the combat was accurate until said episode.  I agree, the story in the game is nothing like the story in the anime.

I'm waiting for a pokemon game with the following aspects:

The Pokemon League is a tournament against randomly generated Trainers/Teams with a starting number of 16 and in which if you win then you get to face the Champion.

All of the known areas of the pokemon world (including the new area in the Black and White games which are due to release in Japan in September) are accessible and playable. That is to say, you can challenge all 40 gyms AND visit add-on areas like the Sevii Islands, and Underwater, as well as have the potential to catch all known pokemon either through events (for certain legendaries) or by owning both of/knowing someone who has the other games.

Lets you choose which region to start in, and obtain at least one starter for each region as you progress and reach the various Professors' homes.

------------------

Those are my basic requirements for the "ultimate" pokemon video game... with luck Black/White will at least allow the multi-region travel (there's what Serebii -thinks- is an airport)... but we'll have to wait another three months and see...

In reply to Dawna (msg #166):

Do you remember Magic and Wizards?

Yes I do, CL. It wasn't really called that much in season 0, though- the term Duel Monsters was used more often.

And Capsule Monsters too... that came BEFORE Duel Monsters did, unlike "Dungeon Dice Monsters" ^_^

I actually played Dungeon Dice Monsters. That game worked exactly as it did in the show. The labyrinth epsidoes were fantastic. I wish there were real rules for that.

Capsule Monsters looked really fun- too bad it was never made into the real world. (Although the game was modified heavily for that YGO Capsule Monsters season made by 4Kids).

I never played Dungeon Dice Monsters. It never interested me much.

Two words for you two: Yugioh Abridged.

Two words for you: Already Watch.

Screw the rules I have money!

In America!

BY the way, has anyone other than me noticed the retcons imposed on the Weeping Angels from "Blink" to "The Time of Angels"/"Flesh and Stone"? If you think about it, it might come to you... maybe.

Yes, yes. But only because we talked about it.

Oh yes! That stuff has gold in it! However, there are parts of it that bug me, like gay comments and swearing and such, so I haven't watched much of it.

This is my favorite scene from it, though (and yes, I transcribed it I like it so much):

Kaiba: I've placed my faith in the heart of the cards, and without your Exodia you have no chance of overcoming my unstoppable Blue Eyes White Dragons!

Yami: Well, at least I'm not adopted.

Kaiba: What did you just say?

Yami: Sorry, did I touch a nerve? Why don't you go home and cry to Mommy? Oh, that's right, you don't have one!

Kaiba: Yugi, I respect you as a duelist, but if you're going to continue acting like a petulant child then-

Yami: Hey, everybody, look at me! I'm Seto Kaiba! I have a dragon fetish, and I sound like Brock from Pokemon! "Screw the rules, I'm in love with Nurse Joy!"

Kaiba: That's it, Moto, you're *BLEEP* dead!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...&feature=related

I'm not even sure what 'retcons' are...

A retcon is a retroactive change to continuity.  For instance, Han shooting Greedo being retconned to Greedo shooting first, missing, then Han shooting Greedo.

I don't know what changes they're talking about -- I haven't seen Blink.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:05, Sun 04 July 2010.

In "Blink," the main character, Sally Sparrow, takes pictures of the Angels at Wester Drumlins (this old house where they caught the Doctor and Martha and sent them back to 1969 so they could get the TARDIS), and ultimately gives them to the Doctor at an earlier point in his timeline. However, none of those pictures become Angels themselves -- they're just pictures. This is completely different from "Time of Angels"/"Flesh and Stone" where they state that "the image of an Angel is, in itself, an Angel" or something to that effect.

Yes, also Larry Nightingale looks directly into the eyes of an Angel, and yet suffers no problems because of it.

Ah yeah I hadn't thought about that, but you're right. Interesting changes to come over them... although it makes me wonder how accurate the 'image' of the angel has to be to then become the angel. Would a hand drawn image of an angel be enough to make a new one, or does it have to be a digital representation? Would a still image like a Polaroid be enough or does it have to be a video image like the one actually in the episode? Interesting thoughts there...

It's like someone saw Ringo and said, "What a great idea!"

Well, in "The Time of Angels" they mentioned that the reason there weren't any pictures of the Angels in the diary they had was because ANY image of an Angel would become one...

Not sure if anyone else here watches (watched) it but was anyone else bummed when heroes got canceled?

Watched it, but the show was dead long before it was cancelled.

True.  Season 1 was the best by far.

Still though the last episode is a major cliff hanger and I'll never get see how it all wrapped up.

I stopped watching about three quarters of the way through season two.

Good for you.  I kept the hope that it would return to the glory it once had.  It didn't.

Anyway at the end of Season 4 Clair showed on live television that she had a super power.  And that was it.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:40, Tue 06 July 2010.

*sighs* Yeah. Sylar was my favorite character when I stopped watching it though, oh and the technology kid, he was cool too. Claire was just annoying.

Yes, but she was necessary for the whole, "Save the cheerleader.  Save the world."

Although I liked Sylar it got kinda ridiculous after he "died" for the fourth time.  Micah (The machine kid.) wasn't used in season 4 and only briefly in season 3 after he took up the alias Rebel.  Which was cool but he didn't get much screen time.  You would probably like the scene where Micah and Sylar have to work together.

They worked together? That's incredible! ... but I won't watch it just to track down that one scene.

Here's a summary of the episode where they work together.  I'm sure you could find it hosted somewhere on the internet.

http://heroeswiki.com/Episode:I_Am_Sylar

Enjoyed the first season greatly. Watched the second, but it left me with little desire to watch the third. Watched an episode or two, dropped it.

Thought Sylar should have stayed dead the first time. He was a great villain in season one, but they kept him going after the end of his character arc by putting him on some sort of character rollercoaster because he was popular. He kept getting so called character development without actually developing for so long that I just stopped caring about him.

The Herrera twins in the second season annoyed me just by existing.

I was disappointed.  They should have had a chance to close their story lines.

See, by giving me an episode title, I can now go and directly watch that episode and only that episode. What I didn't want to do was watch through two entire seasons just to find one episode with a really cool thing. :D

But you'll miss the future where Sylar becomes the owner of Mr. Muggles.  That was my favorite part of the entire third season.

I did watch Heroes through to the end, and I agree -- I was kind of sad that it had ended, but only because I wanted to know what happened next. I mean, in a way, it was an okay stopping point, with Claire revealing that there are special people in the world and bringing back the recurring theme of her keeping track of how many times she's tried to kill herself. On the other hand, they always end with cliffhangers, which I despise more than any other type of device they use in films and TV shows. So while I want to know what happens, I did feel some sort of closure.

I thought they could have ended it with season 4.  Shown a short epilogue instead of the whole Clair shows the world her power thing and that would have been an ending.  What they did instead wasn't an ending but instead a desperate attempt to get another season.  Perhaps Tim Kring will come up with some fresh material now that he isn't doing heroes.

I suppose it will live on in fanfics.  Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is up to interpretation.

Depends on the writing. We've been over this.

Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker, I'm sorry, but the truth just wanted to be made known.

The thing is if you watch the prequels before the originals you already know it so its no big surprise when he says "Luke, I am your Father!"

Please, so long as you haven't been living under a rock for the past 40 years, you don't need to watch the prequels to know that. It's entered the culture.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmw...hp/Main/ItWasHisSled

You wouldn't know if you were a child who hadn't been told yet.  Also, I watched Citizen Kane for the first time about 6 years ago and had no clue it was his sled.  So I suppose I'm living under a rock. :D

For a few years now, this has been my favorite spoiler picture.  If I'd never seen it, I never would have gone out and looked up that Citizen Kane movie and all the other things I looked up in order to understand what the heck it's talking about.

I'm surprised it doesn't have a spoiler for Sixth Sense.  Something like:

He was dead the whole time.

It does. *points at the white bubble on the right that says "The kid's therapist is a ghost"*

Oh cool, didn't see that one.

Which is why I pointed it out for you.

There are only two of those that I don't recognize...

I'm stuck on the Kristin -> J.R. one. Anyone care to enlighten?

I'm lost on that one and "Verbal is Keyser Soze".

Kristin -> J.R. refers to the TV series "Dallas," where the character J.R. is shot by someone, and it is ultimately revealed to be Kristin.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristin_Shepard)

Verbal is Keyser Soze refers to "The Unusual Suspects" (1995). Soze is an underworld kingpin, and the viewer is eventually led to believe that Verbal, the narrator and a con man with cerebral palsy, is Soze.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyser_S%C3%B6ze)


No, I don't watch the shows. I'm just really good at Googling things.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:40, Thu 08 July 2010.

See, that's why I didn't know them. It's because they're television series.

Actually, "The Unusual Suspects" was a movie. My bad.

I knew all of them, including Dallas.

Spoiler:  J.R. wasn't killed; it was just a dream

Whatever. Still haven't seen those two things.

Bobby was the one that died in Pam's dream.

JR was back in 1980 (the year I was born).  My parents liked the name Jed Ray, but then there was that whole "Who shot JR" thing, so I got the awesome name of Bart (I was named after an older TV character -- Bart Maverick).  Then they thought about using it for my younger brother but settled on "Jed Erin" instead, as they though JR was still too fresh.  We all just call him Jed, although he sometimes tells people that his real name is Jedediah for some reason. ;)

I was named after Heath Barkley from the western The Big Valley...because my mom thought Lee Majors was cute.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Valley

I... wasn't named after anyone, although apparently the first letter of my name was because of my recently (at the time) deceased great-grandmother...

And the second letter in your name was because of... ?

*shrugs* I dunno. My mom just liked "Sharon" as a name after picking the first letter.

That's cool.  When I think about all the things my name could have been, like Ezrikanabezaulaonmosnuphter, I'm really happy that it is what is is.

I don't really like my name all that much, but at least it's not one of the top most common names of girls born in or around the same year as me like "Jessica" or "Rachel" or "Katie"...

Sharon actually peaked at the #8 most popular girls name back in the 1940's.  Names are rather cyclical -- they come, they go, they wax, they wane.  Unfortunately, no name that starts with "Kag..." has ever been in the top 1,000 girls names.

The interesting thing is that the list of top girls names is always longer than the list of top boys names, in any period.  I guess people just get more creative or are more willing to just make something up for a girls name than for a boys name.

I dunno, I've seem some pretty creative boys' names in my job as a batcher for emergency departments.

I was named after an actress in a movie my mom saw while she was pregnant. Yeah, my mom managed to emasculate me from birth with that little tidbit. And she loves telling that story when I bring a girlfriend home to meet the folks...

Ouch. That sucks.

I was given a very plain name because my parents hated their odd sounding names which were Selena and Leonard.

So your parents aren't into http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmw...hp/Main/AerithAndBob then?

Wow, sucked into TV Tropes again...

My first and middle initials are both for someone (two someones, actually), but the names are entirely my own.

Hmm, a lot of cryptic references have been tossed out lately and they really don't match up with the names I'm seeing for you in ASWoT.

Really? I thought that was my only cryptic reference.

It was your only one, but I was using the plural you to refer to Graham and jioan  as well.

Ah. I see.

I thought you might.  "Open your eyes and see, open your eyes, America, the future is... hmm, hmm, I don't remember the rest of the words to that song."

Yeah, Graham's just my screenname. My real first name is Brett, which is a boy's name, but also can apply to women. And sure enough, that's where my mom got the name from, an actress. And she is very proud about that fact.

Hey, Brett is also my uncle's name.  My dad liked the TV show Maverick -- Brett Maverick and Bart Maverick and since there was already someone in the family named Brett, I got the name Bart.

So, which actress is named Brett (although, according to the Screenactor's Guild actress isn't a proper word as all actors, male and female, should be referred to as actors)?  I've always thought of Brett as a totally masculine name.

Brett Somers is the one I'm named after, if I remember right. There's also Brett Butler, the comedian. If you Google, you'll probably find a few more. They're rare, but female Bretts are out there. It used to be more common, I think, but it's died off in the past century or so.

So really you have a manly name, since it's more common as a boy's name than a girl's....

Yeah, it's not quite "A Boy Named Sue" levels, just an example of my mother's twisted sense of humor. One which I'm sad to say I inherited. Or is it glad? Guess it depends on who the joke's on.

I'm named after my grandfathers. First name from my mother's father, middle from my father's father.

And Bart - no Beau? Perhaps your dad only liked the first three seasons?

My first name came from my father's desire for his children to have at least one French name, (nobody in particular,) and my middle name was from a character in a book that my mother liked at the time, (The Chosen.)

That's right, my full name is Kermit The Chosen FourLegged Composer.

How did we get to talking about our names on a tv show discussion thread?

Because some of us were named after TV show characters, like me.

Kermit? Like the frog? ... but you're a koala!

Kermit is a frog, the French are known as frogs, therefore Kermit is French.

I was going to go with Frenchie The Chosen FourLegged Composer, but Frenchie was a little too obvious.
This message was last edited by the GM at 06:34, Sat 10 July 2010.

Uh huh... you realize that now I'm going to be working through every possible combination to figure out what your name really is? It should be fun. ^_^

His real name is Pierre Reno (French, then the latter half of Reno Williams).

I dunno, he doesn't look much like a "Pierre" to me... I'd buy Reno though.

I'm eagerly awaiting a remake of Reno Williams, I'm hoping it goes on to become a series this time.  I just read the Destroyer 3 for the first time last month and... wow.  I can see why that book didn't go mainstream, it was, uhm, graphic.  They really toned it down for the movie.  Anyway, I think FourLegged is actually named Temujin, after Genghis Khan.

Be my guest.  I'll let you know if you get it right.

1 Jacob Isabella
2 Ethan Emma
3 Michael Olivia
4 Alexander Sophia
5 William Ava
6 Joshua Emily
7 Daniel Madison
8 Jayden Abigail
9 Noah Chloe
10 Anthony Mia
11 Christopher Elizabeth
12 Aiden Addison
13 Matthew Alexis
14 David Ella
15 Andrew Samantha
16 Joseph Natalie
17 Logan Grace
18 James Lily
19 Ryan Alyssa
20 Benjamin Ashley
21 Elijah Sarah
22 Gabriel Taylor
23 Christian Hannah
24 Nathan Brianna
25 Jackson Hailey
26 John Kaylee
27 Samuel Lillian
28 Tyler Leah
29 Dylan Anna
30 Jonathan Allison
31 Caleb Victoria
32 Nicholas Avery
33 Gavin Gabriella
34 Mason Nevaeh
35 Evan Kayla
36 Landon Sofia
37 Angel Brooklyn
38 Brandon Riley
39 Lucas Evelyn
40 Isaac Savannah
41 Isaiah Aubrey
42 Jack Alexa
43 Jose Peyton
44 Kevin Makayla
45 Jordan Layla
46 Justin Lauren
47 Brayden Zoe
48 Luke Sydney
49 Liam Audrey
50 Carter Julia
51 Owen Jasmine
52 Connor Arianna
53 Zachary Claire
54 Aaron Brooke
55 Robert Amelia
56 Hunter Morgan
57 Thomas Destiny
58 Adrian Bella
59 Cameron Madelyn
60 Wyatt Katherine
61 Chase Kylie
62 Julian Maya
63 Austin Aaliyah
64 Charles Madeline
65 Jeremiah Sophie
66 Jason Kimberly
67 Juan Kaitlyn
68 Xavier Charlotte
69 Luis Alexandra
70 Sebastian Jocelyn
71 Henry Maria
72 Aidan Valeria
73 Ian Andrea
74 Adam Trinity
75 Diego Zoey
76 Nathaniel Gianna
77 Brody Mackenzie
78 Jesus Jessica
79 Carlos Camila
80 Tristan Faith
81 Dominic Autumn
82 Cole Ariana
83 Alex Genesis
84 Cooper Payton
85 Ayden Bailey
86 Carson Angelina
87 Josiah Caroline
88 Levi Mariah
89 Blake Katelyn
90 Eli Rachel
91 Hayden Vanessa
92 Bryan Molly
93 Colton Melanie
94 Brian Serenity
95 Eric Khloe
96 Parker Gabrielle
97 Sean Paige
98 Oliver Mya
99 Miguel Eva
100 Kyle Isabelle
Rumpelstiltskin?

Checking list...

...um...

...no.

I'm afraid to post a really long list as you'd just respond "yes".

I'm surprised that you haven't tried anagrams of FourLegged

Anagrams are hard... especially if you don't know how many words your working with to begin with...

That's true.

Has anyone seen the latest episode of Eureka?

No. I never finished watching all the previous seasons...

I was about to copy/paste in every possible anagram of FourLegged but my curiosity has been woken.  What is Eureka?
This message was last edited by the player at 07:13, Sun 11 July 2010.

It's a show on SyFy about a government-created town called "Eureka" where the greatest minds live and work, and it's also about the completely ordinary (in terms of IQ) sheriff who always ends up having to solve the problems caused when one of these geniuses builds something that goes out of control. It's funny and serious at the same time.

Oh yeah. I started watching that show but them stopped for some reason...maybe it is my addiction to ASWoT that keeps me from the TV.

It's my addiction to video games that keeps me from watching TV... well, that and the fact that I just can't seem to motivate myself to pick up the remote and turn on the TV half the time...

And that is why we have computers.

Nope, can't convince myself to go into the other room and watch things on the computer either. :P

It's too bad we started this thread just as all the really awesome TV shows went on hiatus for the summer.  Now there's nothing to watch.

What are you talking about? There're PLENTY of good shows to watch. White Collar, Psych... I can't say anything about Covert Affairs because I haven't watch it yet. Not to mention the reruns of everything else...

I've been watching Firefly... again.

Season 3 was my favorite. How does Joss do it?

There was only one season.

I've been thinking about watching Firefly. Since it is only one season.

Oops!  Sorry, wrong reality.

I've been told many times that I should watch Firefly, and been threatened with being tied down/kidnapped for the purpose of watching it as well... but since the latter never happened, I've never bothered with the former...

You should watch it.  I don't want to spoil anything but it's awesome and one of my favorite T.V. shows.  It is in my opinion the best work of Joss Whedon to date.

Like I said, people have told me that I should watch it... I just haven't ever gotten around to it.

If you want to watch it, watch it.  If not, don't.

This is completely unrelated, but...

I was thinking about the fact that movies are no longer accompanied by short films any more. It used to be that a lot of movies would be preceded by some sort of cartoon, but in modern times Disney is the only film company to have really kept up this tradition. Personally, I think that's kinda unfortunate...

I have found that some of the few movies that do so, suffer from having the short before the feature be better than the feature.  My example being Men in Black 2.  It wasn't that the movie wasn't fair, it was that the short was much better.  Having an entire movie be the anti-climax from a cartoon is not a good thing.

Additionally, why did we decide to jettison the intermission from films?  Who likes to sit through a 3+ hour epic with a full bladder and numb butt?  Even baseball has a 7th inning stretch.  The last movie that I can recall having an intermission was Hamlet, and before that, it was Gandi.

Wouldn't the Lord of the Rings trilogy have benefitted from the intermission?  An hour and a half or two of film, fifteen minute potty/snack break, the rest of the film.

I don't know what your problem is, FL... I thought everyone knew that you have to go to the bathroom BEFORE the movie starts so that you don't have to go during! Plus, the seats in the movie theaters are pretty comfy... obviously they never bothered to add cushions to the ones in whatever theater you're going to. :D

@FL: My extended edition of LotR has a sort of intermission between discs one and two for each movie. Each disc has about 2 hours of movie on it, then the rest continues on the next, so just make your own intermission when you get up to change the dvd. :p

@Enix 18: I saw a movie recently that had an awesome cartoon short at the start... *wracks brain for a minute trying to think which movie it was* Oh that's right! The new movie Kagura hates. Toy Story 3! It was an awesome movie, for sure, but the cartoon short at the start was pretty epic too. It was a day vs night opposites thing. Hard to describe really, but pretty good. I love Pixar. :D

Kagura hates Toy Story 3?  Why!?

Who said she hates it? She just didn't go see it with me. She saw something else instead (and now I can't remember what it was).

@Dragon: I really liked the night and day short, too. All of Pixar's movies have a little short like that in front of them. But I don't think all of Disney's movies do, just the Pixar ones.

Yeah, I never said I hated Toy Story 3... I just never really got into Toy Story in general. I don't hate it, I just sort of have a general apathy towards it.

Wasn't Toy Story made by Pixar in collaboration with Disney?  I think that basically proves Enix 18's assertion that only Disney has shorts in front of its movies anymore.  Spoiler alert re: Toy Story.  It's about toys.

A lot of Pixar stuff has been done 'in collaboration with' Disney. But Pixar is not Disney, they are a separate studio.

Pixar USED to be a part of Disney, but after their first couple of films were such a success, they broke off and became their own studio.

'zactly.

Is it just me or do most of the best studios and movies seem to be coming from outside disney? Heh, along those lines I can hardly wait until December for the Voyage of the Dawn Treader. That was one of my favorite books as a kid and it's looking to be an excellent movie.

I just hope they go back and do a prequel film for the first book.  I really liked the backstory it gave for Narnia and the Professor.  (Not to mention it explained the wardrobe.)

Well, technically, the first book was The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe.  It's just that publishers nowdays are trying to put the books in chronological order instead of published order.  People get all upset about "spoilers" nbowdays and some people don't realize that the ending of The Magician's Nephew was sort of "spoiled" for everyone when it first came out.

I remember reading it many, many moons ago and thinking, "Oh!  That's where the lightpost came from."

"Oh, so that's why we never really saw other witches like her." ;)

"That's why the wardrobe was so special!"

"Nowadays"? I have a box set published in the early 1990s with The Magician's Nephew numbered as book 1...

In order of how much I liked them, this is my ranking for the Narnia books:

1. The Magician's Nephew
2. The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
3. Voyage of the Dawn Treader
4. Prince Caspian
5. The Silver Chair
6. The Last Battle
7. The Horse and His Boy

I had a set from the mid 1970's, it had The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe first.

EDIT: LW&W was published in 1950, Magician's Nephew in 1955
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:57, Fri 23 July 2010.

I was just commenting on Bart's use of the phrase "publishers nowadays" to refer to something that's been going on for about 15 or 20 years.

EDIT: I will also refer you to the original publish dates as listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Narnia

As you can see, there are some logical flaws in all previous arguments here...
This message was last edited by the player at 01:40, Sat 24 July 2010.

I believe that I just got called old.

If that's the case, I was also calling myself "old", so you're in good company... or bad company. Depends on what you think of me...

I couldn't think of better company.

Ah, The Horse and his Boy.  I don't think that book even deserves a movie.

Why not? All the others will (probably) get one. It wouldn't be fair to the horse or his boy if they didn't get a movie too, right?

I didn't like it as much as the other Narnia books.  I figure it'll get a movie if the series continues to be successful but I doubt it will be as entertaining.

Hey, I liked The Horse and His Boy. Probably because at the time I read it I was going through an obsessive phase that revolved around horses.

You'll notice it was the lowest on my personal list as well, but that doesn't mean that I don't think Hollywood will manage to squeeze a fairly good movie out of it.

We'll have to wait and see I suppose.  Hollywood can raise anything to greatness but the reverse is more common.

I disagree. Hollywood has done a very good job with many "everyone's heard about it, but nobody actually wants to read it" types of literature (like the Lord of the Rings trilogy - very good books, but very difficult to get through for most people) as well as "cult" types of things like comic book superheroes.

"nobody wants to read it" books?  Maybe for children, but anyone with who graduated middle school should have no trouble reading LotR and understanding at least the most basic level.  As far as comic book adaptions go it depends on the specific movie.  I could name several successes and several failures but more failures.  Recently movie success tends to rely less on plot and more on CGI effects so the failures are still cropping up but look spectacular while doing it.  It does popularize the character(s) regardless.  I was surprised at how many people didn't know who Ironman was before the movie came out.

You'd be surprised how many people who graduated high school or college who either haven't read or couldn't get all the way through the Lord of the Rings novels. Personally, I read them in high school, not long before the first movie came out, but even then, they were VERY dense material. Basically, they're not written for a "casual" reader which, unfortunately, the majority of the population of (at the very least) the United States can be classified as.

As for the comic books... I will admit that, while I knew the name "Iron Man" I didn't really know much about the character before the first movie came out. My childhood superheroes were the X-Men. I didn't really care about any of the other ones.

I'm curious though, which comic book-based movies would you classify as "successes" and which would you classify as "failures"?

<quote Kagura>I was just commenting on Bart's use of the phrase "publishers nowadays" to refer to something that's been going on for about 15 or 20 years.
Hmm, yeah, I think I just got called old too. :p

The problem with Tolkien is that he's so very much like Stephen King (who is another author that I really like).  They both have verbal diarrhea.  I remember, in the paperback mass market version of IT, Stephen King spent seriously, honestly, a couple long paragraphs describing a single candelabra.  Describing what was on the desk literally took pages.  They both do a great job making something live in your mind, but sometimes Tolkien will go off on a page or two about Captain NobodyCares from Somewhere Far Away and his only relevancy to the story is that he fought in SomeBattle which in turn basically means nothing to the overall story.  Honestly, I love the book, but there just sometimes parts where you want him to just get on with the story.

I can easily someone who doesn't read as fast I do just taking the book, setting it down, then walking away from it forever because even as fast as I read it sometimes seems like it's taking forever to get through those parts.

Not to mention the genealogies of the dwarves. Every time you ran into one you got five pages listing every ancestor of that one dwarf and their major accomplishments in life...

Don't get me wrong, I really liked some parts of those books, but it took me nearly five times as long to get through each of them as it does to get through any other book of similar length just because of those uber-description pieces.

My favorite of Tolkien's books was definitely The Hobbit, though, with Riddles in the Dark (chapter 9, I think it is) being my favorite part of the entire story.

And the poetry, all the parts that turn Lord of the Rings into Lord of the Rings: The Musical.  They add so much atmosphere, but they basically don't advance the plot one bit.  You can skip every one and you won't miss out on what's happening "now", just the rich past that happened before "now".

Tolkien apparently didn't agree with Chekhov about the gun (or with Edgar Allen Poe).

Well you asked so here we go.  This list only contains live action comic book adaptions of super heroes.  I've forgotten some of the names so I'll just put the villians in the movie or a number.  Note that this is my opinion.

Success
Superman
Superman 2
Batman
Batman Returns
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight
Ironman
Ironman 2
Fantastic 4
X-men
X-men 2
X-men 3 (Greyish Area)
Ghost Rider
Spiderman
Spiderman 2

Failure
Superman 3
Superman 4
Superman Returns
Batman w/ Riddler & Two-Face
Batman w/ Poison Ivy & Mr. Freeze
Spiderman 3
Spawn
Hulk
Fantastic 4 2
X-men Origins: Wolverine
Punisher
Catwoman

That was all I could think of off the top of my head.
This message was last edited by the player at 11:34, Sun 25 July 2010.