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Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia.

Posted by HeathFor group 0
Heath
GM, 15442 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Sat 30 Apr 2011
at 00:23
  • msg #1

Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

This is your thread to discuss books, movies, and other FICTION media items.  Spoilers may be present, but please warn us since this is not the spoiler thread.

You may discuss favorite items, take votes, and even discuss other RPoL games that you really like.

Please do not engage in politics, religion or other inflammatory subjects, as this is meant to be a light-hearted thread ABOUT FICTION...

...where cujo still lives where the red fern grows, somewhere over the rainbow or over the cuckoo's nest, where red badges of courage are earned by fixing wounds with dragonlances or movie star wars are all the raging bull and there is, of course, one ring to rule them all.
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:43, Sat 30 Apr 2011.
Remi LeBeau
player, 110 posts
Sat 30 Apr 2011
at 01:01
  • msg #2

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

And out of the night, when the full moon is bright, comes the horseman known as Zorro.
jioan
player, 2295 posts
Sat 30 Apr 2011
at 14:52
  • msg #3

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Anyone read Wise Man's Fear (Kingkiller Chronicle Day 2) by Patrick Rothfuss?
jioan
player, 2334 posts
Sun 1 May 2011
at 23:48
  • msg #4

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

How about any Sandman fans?  I've been rereading some of them just to remind myself of the literary genius that is Gaiman.
Remi LeBeau
player, 145 posts
Laissez les bon temps
rouler mes amis!
Mon 2 May 2011
at 00:23
  • msg #5

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Haven't read that.  I've been busy reading Mercedes Lackey books right now, and eagerly awaiting the newest Dresden novel.  Harry!!!
Kagura
player, 13466 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Mon 2 May 2011
at 00:38
  • msg #6

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I've been waiting for the newest Dresden novel since a couple of weeks after Changes came out. Haven't read Side Jobs (I need to remember to borrow that from my friend who owns a copy...) but I can't wait to see what happens with Harry being, you know, the Winter Knight and dead and stuff...
Remi LeBeau
player, 147 posts
Laissez les bon temps
rouler mes amis!
Mon 2 May 2011
at 04:10
  • msg #7

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Oh, god yeah.  I so cannot wait!
FourLegged
GM, 38782 posts
Quadruped Phascolarctos
Cinereus Unsquisheus
Sun 8 May 2011
at 08:03
  • msg #8

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I just finished reading Fated.  It's a decent novel about the nature of fate.  Written by the same guy who wrote Breathers: A Zombie's Lament
jioan
player, 2446 posts
Sun 8 May 2011
at 21:03
  • msg #9

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Anyone else ready for the last Wheel of Time book finally?
Kagura
player, 13513 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Sun 8 May 2011
at 23:42
  • msg #10

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

You know, while I really like Brian Sanderson's writing (he co-wrote some of the Wheel books, if I'm not mistaken) I never really got into Wheel of Time... it's sort of like the literary version of Firefly or Battlestar to me - lots of people say it's awesome, but I just can't get into it. :D
jioan
player, 2455 posts
Mon 9 May 2011
at 00:10
  • msg #11

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

While Firefly and Battlestar are amazing, and I don't know how you can like sci-fi and not like them; I can see why you don't like Wheel of Time.  The story is extremely slow-paced (or inconsistent pacing) and uses very little realism but its the epic scope and creativity involved that makes it a good read.  Now I feel so invested in the storyline after reading 12,000 pages or so that I have to know what happens!
Kagura
player, 13517 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Mon 9 May 2011
at 04:30
  • msg #12

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

The extent of my liking "sci-fi" as a media (as opposed to literary) genre runs to three and a half of the Star Trek series (original series, Next Generation, some of DS9 and any Voyager episode involving Q), and Star Wars. Mostly what I like for television is the crime drama stuff.

When it comes to books, I generally like cloak-and-dagger fantasy and fantasy based in real-world mythology. I also read some supernatural romance (the Southern Vampire novels - that's True Blood to those of you who haven't read the books) and teen fiction (Tamora Pierce) and some Asimov when the mood strikes me.

ANYways, much of what I read in the fantasy genre is slow-paced to start (especially the stuff involving political intrigue, because they have to set up the court situation before they do anything fun :D) and, well, fantasy as a rule doesn't generally use much realism. That's just how fantasy IS.

No, I just couldn't invest myself in the characters within a few chapters. That was my problem. If I don't like the characters quickly, then I won't keep reading. In my opinion, a good author only needs one or two chapters to let you know everything you need to about the characters central to the plot. If they keep too much back, then you can't identify with them, and if they tell you everything, then there's just no reason to continue reading.
jioan
player, 2459 posts
Mon 9 May 2011
at 11:15
  • msg #13

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Kagura:
Fantasy as a rule doesn't generally use much realism. That's just how fantasy IS.


All books incorporate realism to a degree and frankly I have difficulty reading a book without realistic personalities and relationships for the characters.  Wheel of Time has several bland characters (especially early on) and many of the relationships seemed forced.  Also, most main characters are Mary Sues and there is actually a plot device where characters can be ta'veren or able to bend fate around them but have little control over their own fate.
Kagura
player, 13519 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Mon 9 May 2011
at 12:45
  • msg #14

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

*shudders* Eww. That's just shoddy writing, that is. How did the Wheel series get so popular with characters and weak plot devices like that?
jioan
player, 2461 posts
Mon 9 May 2011
at 14:36
  • msg #15

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

The books supply a good deal of very creative instances, there's a lot of action, it's easy to read, and the epic length is appealing.  The books have are odd because one scene will feel very polished and then the next three seem like they were just first drafts.  Those of us who grew up reading them also have a sort of nostalgic factor because we didn't know they weren't very well written at the time and some of us don't want to admit it.
Kagura
player, 13521 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Mon 9 May 2011
at 15:16
  • msg #16

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Haha, I see. How unfortunate. I think I'll continue to avoid them, then.

I might pick up Game of Thrones though. You know... because everyone's saying it's so good right now. :D
Heath
GM, 15490 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Mon 9 May 2011
at 18:33
  • msg #17

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I've never read the books, but the HBO take on Game of Thrones is pretty interesting, if not for children.  My favorite guy is the dwarf (I forget his name); that actor has come a long way to overcome the stereotype of a little person and does a wonderful acting job.
jioan
player, 2464 posts
Mon 9 May 2011
at 19:50
  • msg #18

A Song of Ice and Fire

A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones is book 1) is my favorite book series and I suggest you go read it as soon as you can. If you want to get into the series I highly suggest reading the series first because the books have so far been better than the series.  (Although the show is good.  It just spoils the plot in the books.)

Tyrion Lannister is the name of the dwarf by the way and he is being played by Peter Dinklage.
firelizardkimi
player, 1301 posts
Gravity is a myth.
The Earth sucks.
Mon 9 May 2011
at 20:08
  • msg #19

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

In reply to Kagura (msg #16):

I have all the books at home somewhere. Probably in my room? Game of thrones has a yellow/orange color with a rampant lion on it.
Heath
GM, 15494 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Mon 9 May 2011
at 21:36
  • msg #20

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Kagura:
ANYways, much of what I read in the fantasy genre is slow-paced to start (especially the stuff involving political intrigue, because they have to set up the court situation before they do anything fun :D) and, well, fantasy as a rule doesn't generally use much realism. That's just how fantasy IS.

The key is whether the writer can suspend the reader's disbelief.  Fantasy can do this if done well.

By the same token, it's often even easier in real world settings to fail utterly.  An example of this is "Double Jeopardy," in which the entire hook and premise of the movie is based on a completely idiotic and unrealistic interpretation of the double jeopardy clause, that even a 1st year law student couldn't get past it.  Yet there is Sean Connery pretending to be a law professor totally misinterpreting it and reiterating with passion that his interpretation is true.  I couldn't get past it and my disbelief was not suspended for even one minute (and neither could the critics).

Contrast that to the Lord of the Rings movie, which so involves you in the movie that you can easily forget it is a fantasy world.
Remi LeBeau
player, 190 posts
Laissez les bon temps
rouler mes amis!
Mon 9 May 2011
at 22:49
  • msg #21

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Kagura... have you tried Patricia Briggs?  The Mercy Thompson series?  Deals with a coyote skinwalker who is a mechanic... and is female.  There are werewolves, vampires, Fae... there's a companion series to that world called the Alpha and Omega as well.  Very fun series, very active.

Of course, there's also the Kitty Norville series by Carrie Vaughn, which deals with a supernatural nighttime radio show hosted by a werewolf named Kitty.  Yeah, gotta love the irony there! lol
Kagura
player, 13526 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Tue 10 May 2011
at 01:00
  • msg #22

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

firelizardkimi:
I have all the books at home somewhere. Probably in my room? Game of thrones has a yellow/orange color with a rampant lion on it.


Not blue? I thought it was blue. I could have sworn that the ones at the bookstore were blue.

I'll look if I'm interested.

Heath:
The key is whether the writer can suspend the reader's disbelief.  Fantasy can do this if done well.


Exactly. That's the whole point (in my opinion, at least) of fantasy - to enable the reader to be able to escape to that world and not have jarring contradictions/deus ex machina plot points thrown in their face.

In reply to Remi LeBeau (msg #21):

I haven't, and I probably won't. For the simple expedient that I just don't like werewolves (or shifters of any sort) that much. In my personal opinion, fae and REAL vampires (the ones that don't sparkle) are more interesting. I read supernatural fiction for the supernatural characters who are completely inhuman, not for the human characters who are more or less supernatural like werewolves.

It's nothing personal against werewolves, really, I just don't generally like human beings who aren't assassins, spies or dethroned princes in exile. :D
jioan
player, 2526 posts
Tue 10 May 2011
at 01:02
  • msg #23

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

A Song of Ice and Fire has all three! :D
Remi LeBeau
player, 274 posts
Laissez les bon temps
rouler mes amis!
Tue 10 May 2011
at 01:07
  • msg #24

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

They're actually quite good, and the vampire worlds are well designed in them.  I adore the Fae in the Briggs books... they've revealed themselves to the world to a degree, and there's actually an old Fae working with Mercy as a friend... one of the metalworking Fae.  He adores the name gremlin... lol

But if they're not your cup of tea, no problem.  What authors do you enjoy most, or did I ask and just forget already? *grins*
jioan
player, 2537 posts
Tue 10 May 2011
at 01:21
  • msg #25

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I'm not Kagura but...

Card, Gaiman, Rutherfurd, Martin, Tolkien, Rothfuss, Burlew, Lewis, White, King, Erikson, and Durham are all great.
Remi LeBeau
player, 280 posts
Laissez les bon temps
rouler mes amis!
Tue 10 May 2011
at 01:47
  • msg #26

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Heard of some, read some, no clue on the others.  For me...

Lackey, McCaffrey, Flint, Weber, Conan Doyle, Briggs, Vaughn, Feehan, Butcher(Dresden rocks!), Salvatore, Weis, Clancy, Cussler, Sagara, and Francis.  Of course, I'm forgetting tons of authors I love in addition to those.
jioan
player, 2543 posts
Tue 10 May 2011
at 01:48
  • msg #27

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Salvatore?  I mean the original Drizzt book was good and so were the prequels, but what do you really like about him as an overall author?
Remi LeBeau
player, 283 posts
Laissez les bon temps
rouler mes amis!
Tue 10 May 2011
at 01:52
  • msg #28

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I like the Drizzt storyline, mostly.  I've always been a sucker for the underdog.  I've never read anything else of his.  Really, I should sub Peter David for Salvatore, since I have read things he's done other than Star Trek, and died laughing each time.  It gets harder to rise up from death-by-laughter.
jioan
player, 2546 posts
Tue 10 May 2011
at 01:55
  • msg #29

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

If you haven't read anything else by Salvatore I suggest The Highwayman.  It's the best book of his I've read with possibly the exceptions of The Crystal Shard and Homeland.  (Although again that might just be Nostalgia talking.)
Remi LeBeau
player, 289 posts
Laissez les bon temps
rouler mes amis!
Tue 10 May 2011
at 01:56
  • msg #30

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I'll try that one.  Have you read David Weber or Eric Flint?
jioan
player, 2550 posts
Tue 10 May 2011
at 01:58
  • msg #31

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

No but a friend did recommend Off Armageddon Reef to me and I think I still have it "borrowed" around here somewhere...
Remi LeBeau
player, 292 posts
Laissez les bon temps
rouler mes amis!
Tue 10 May 2011
at 02:01
  • msg #32

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Haven't made my way to that one yet, but the Honor Harrington series is superb, and the book In Fury Born is fantastic, with scifi and ancient Greek mythology together.  Very cool.

And Flint's Ring of Fire series is wonderful alternate universe stuff, with lots of humor and grit.  West Virginia mining town gets sent to Thuringia in Europe in 1632, which is the title of the first book.  Nothing like having good ole Americans dumped in a war territory... and having modern equipment.  Oh yeah lol
Kagura
player, 13530 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Tue 10 May 2011
at 04:25
  • msg #33

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

In reply to Remi LeBeau (msg #24):

Who are my favorite authors? Hmm...

Rowland, Gaiman, Conan Doyle, Weeks, Harris, Sagara, Canavan, Peeler, Pierce, McKinley, Butcher, Collins, Duane, Haley, Lackey, Miller, Sturluson and Sweet.

Those happen to be the ones that I could think of right at this very moment. I'm sure there are more that I'm not thinking of. Feel free to ask for clarification on any one, since a least a few of those names are lesser known and/or generic.
firelizardkimi
player, 1302 posts
Gravity is a myth.
The Earth sucks.
Tue 10 May 2011
at 04:40
  • msg #34

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Kagura:
Not blue? I thought it was blue. I could have sworn that the ones at the bookstore were blue.


The blue one is the third in the series. At least, of the editions I have at home. Game of Thrones is yellow/orange, Clash of Kings is purple, Storm of Swords is blue, and Feast for Crows is Red. He hasn't come out with Dance with Dragons yet, but if it's the same type of cover, then I expect it to be green.
Remi LeBeau
player, 309 posts
Laissez les bon temps
rouler mes amis!
Tue 10 May 2011
at 04:40
  • msg #35

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I'm seeing ones that I forgot in my own list... though in my defense, I read so much it's often hard to choose favorites...

But I'm behind in my Sagara.  Is there a new book out for her Cast series?
Kagura
player, 13535 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Tue 10 May 2011
at 05:20
  • msg #36

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

That depends, what was the last one that you read? The most recent is Cast in Chaos, but Cast in Ruin is supposed to come out this September.
Remi LeBeau
player, 313 posts
Laissez les bon temps
rouler mes amis!
Tue 10 May 2011
at 05:28
  • msg #37

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I think I read that one... been a while.  Currently burning through Suzanne Brockmann's Seal Team Ten series, and Mercedes Lackey's Velgarth series.  And the Dragon Jousters series.
Heath
GM, 15498 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Tue 10 May 2011
at 16:38
  • msg #38

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Remi LeBeau:
Heard of some, read some, no clue on the others.  For me...

Lackey, McCaffrey, Flint, Weber, Conan Doyle, Briggs, Vaughn, Feehan, Butcher(Dresden rocks!), Salvatore, Weis, Clancy, Cussler, Sagara, and Francis.  Of course, I'm forgetting tons of authors I love in addition to those.

No one has mentioned Stephen R. Donaldson...his works are classic.  Orson Scott Card and Terry Brooks can be good at times too.
jioan
player, 2564 posts
Tue 10 May 2011
at 17:28
  • msg #39

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I forgot to put Brooks in but I listed Card although the only book of his I loved was Ender's Game.  I read the next couple and they just didn't have the same level of originality or suspense as the first one.
Heath
GM, 15499 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Tue 10 May 2011
at 17:47
  • msg #40

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I agree to some extent.  The next two books were pretty good originality wise but not quite as action packed.  The first book with Bean as protagonist was really good if you liked Ender's Game because it goes through the same events with a whole new twist and viewpoint.
Heath
GM, 15500 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Tue 10 May 2011
at 17:52
  • msg #41

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Stephen R. Donaldson is an unsung hero because his books are now older, but he pioneered an anti-hero from our world going into a fantasy world and doing...well, stupid things...because he didn't believe it really existed.  And then he comes to believe and become a hero.

Donaldson's science fiction series is also extraordinary.  Especially starting about halfway through the second book.  The action gets so intense it's hard to put down until the end of the series.  I really liked his singularity bomb idea and the method of creating a type of superhuman/supersoldier by controlling the brain, making the person (in this case, a murderer) a slave.  Definitely not a series for kids, though.  And the aliens remind me a little of the Borg from Star Trek, but creepier.
Remi LeBeau
player, 315 posts
Laissez les bon temps
rouler mes amis!
Tue 10 May 2011
at 20:53
  • msg #42

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Creepier than the Borg... oh nice.  I adore the Borg as villains.
Kagura
player, 13541 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Tue 10 May 2011
at 21:27
  • msg #43

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Heath:
The first book with Bean as protagonist was really good if you liked Ender's Game because it goes through the same events with a whole new twist and viewpoint.


Ender's Shadow. Yeah. I liked Game and Shadow the best. The rest not so much... although I thought Speaker for the Dead was okay.
Heath
GM, 15505 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Tue 10 May 2011
at 21:30
  • msg #44

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia


Here's from the Wikipedia about the aliens, though it doesn't really do the book justice:
quote:
Nick takes Morn to Enablement Station, a space station in alien-influenced space. The aliens are known as the Amnion and are masters of genetic manipulation. Where humans control space through physical, military and political means, the Amnion gain control by genetic methods — mutating non-Amnion life-forms into Amnioni. Only the technological and military might of the UMCP keeps them at bay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gap_Cycle
jioan
player, 2919 posts
Wed 1 Jun 2011
at 12:58
  • msg #45

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I recently obtained two Neil Gaiman books I had never gotten around to reading before.  I was wondering if anyone who has read them thinks I should start with Stardust or Anansi Boys?
jioan
player, 3636 posts
Tue 28 Jun 2011
at 13:34
  • msg #46

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Has anyone ever read Scott Pilgrim.  I've never seen the movie, but a friend of mine recommended the comics and is letting me borrow them.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:01, Wed 29 June 2011.
Heath
GM, 15657 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Thu 30 Jun 2011
at 17:47
  • msg #47

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire

jioan:
A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones is book 1) is my favorite book series and I suggest you go read it as soon as you can. If you want to get into the series I highly suggest reading the series first because the books have so far been better than the series.  (Although the show is good.  It just spoils the plot in the books.)

Tyrion Lannister is the name of the dwarf by the way and he is being played by Peter Dinklage.

Okay, so now I'm almost done with the first book (Game of Thrones), and as far as I can see, the HBO series follows the plot very closely.  It helps, I guess, that the screenplay is written by the author.  Although, of course, the HBO version is much more explicit and not for kids.

But it's not a fantasy book where I necessarily have these grandiose visions in my head that are ruined by watching the show, unlike perhaps Tolkien's works.  The books are almost more medieval drama than fantasy, with a few exceptions of course.
jioan
player, 3672 posts
Tue 5 Jul 2011
at 12:37
  • msg #48

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire

More fantasy elements continue to enter the series as it continues.  They tend to appear as divine intervention or miracles, but there are several supernatural creatures and peoples introduced as well as groups that appear to use arcane magic.
Vixcis
player, 4463 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Tue 5 Jul 2011
at 20:23
  • msg #49

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire

The Parasol Protectorate series by Gail Carriger is too die for!!!
jioan
player, 3700 posts
Wed 13 Jul 2011
at 18:13
  • msg #50

MOPI

I discovered and read the science fiction novella The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect a couple years ago, and I'm currently rereading it.  The full story can be found here to read for free:

http://www.kuro5hin.org/prime-intellect/mopiidx.html

The story is an interesting look at the Singularity and one the most extreme possible outcomes of it.  It's also refreshing because the AI doesn't betray its programming and try to kill people.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:15, Wed 13 July 2011.
Discreet
player, 2298 posts
Mon 25 Jul 2011
at 19:25
  • msg #51

Re: MOPI

Most of the fiction I read recently is from boards or side panels in phbs. But I enjoy an occasional graphic novel, like the Sandman, Mouseguard
jioan
player, 3739 posts
Tue 26 Jul 2011
at 04:39
  • msg #52

Re: MOPI

Sandman is awesome!

I find it interesting that they were part of DCU canon but Gaiman stopped DC from using his characters after he finished Sandman.
REkzkaRZ
player, 10 posts
Mon 22 Aug 2011
at 18:49
  • msg #53

Re: MOPI

"They Live" - I love this B-movie, it's a solid 10.  Why?
  1. John Carpenter directed this scifi B-movie ultra-conspiracy underground classic.
  2. Rowdy Roddy Piper (the wrestler) is the lead actor discovering aliens have secretly taken control of the world.  (Why didn't he get more movie roles after this?!?!)
  3. The dialogue is off-the-charts great.
  4. The effects are cheesy B-movie which is perfectly fine for this film.
  5. There's an extended wrestling fight scene.
  6. Gets better over time.
  7. The ending scene (I don't want to spoil it).

Heath
GM, 15791 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Mon 22 Aug 2011
at 19:24
  • msg #54

Re: MOPI

That's definitely a classic.  Longest fight scene (between friends?) in the history of movies, I think.
Kagura
player, 14030 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Mon 22 Aug 2011
at 22:13
  • msg #55

Re: MOPI

jioan:
I find it interesting that they were part of DCU canon but Gaiman stopped DC from using his characters after he finished Sandman.


That is because Neil Gaiman is brilliant. Just think about what they (DC) would be doing to those characters right now if he had allowed them to keep using them... *shudders at the mere thought*

Also, who else could write those characters so perfectly? Nobody, that's who.

*is a total Neil Gaiman fangirl*
REkzkaRZ
player, 15 posts
Tue 23 Aug 2011
at 07:43
  • msg #56

Re: MOPI

Can you recommend a good Neil Gaiman read?  I haven't found anything of his yet that lept out at me much.

I notice that DC's movies are lacking the style/panache of modern Marvel films, and are stuck in bad writing (and often bad action) -- just saw Green Lantern, was disappointing for the *horrible* writing.  CG was ok.

Hoping DC learns from Marvel's million $ blockbusters.
jioan
player, 3867 posts
Tue 23 Aug 2011
at 10:37
  • msg #57

Re: MOPI

I recommend American Gods and Neverwhere because those were the first books of his I read. (Although I read Sandman first.)

The issue with DC is that they lack consistency.  Many consider The Dark Knight to be the greatest superhero film of all time, but more recently Jonah Hex and Green Lantern have been half-hearted attempts at taking money from the preexisting fanbase.  Marvel, however, produces average to good movies on a regular basis with their last great movie imho being Ironman.  They also have continuity which will be very interesting to see if Avengers does well.
Kagura
player, 14035 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Tue 23 Aug 2011
at 12:50
  • msg #58

Re: MOPI

In reply to REkzkaRZ (msg #56):

Depends on what you've already read by him, and what you're interested in.

American Gods and Anansi Boys are both great if you're into mythology.

Neverwhere if you're familiar with London and are looking for a good modern fantasy read.

Stardust is where you should be if you're looking for a straight-up fairytale.

If you like Terry Pratchett and a humorous twist on the idea of the Anti-Christ and the Apocalypse, then you should look into Good Omens (co-written by Gaiman and Pratchett - I didn't like it that much, but then, I'm not a huge fan of Pratchett's writing style.)

There's also his short story anthologies, Smoke and Mirrors, and Fragile Things. I can't speak for Smoke and Mirrors having not read that one, but Fragile Things has some great stories in it, including one that is a cross between Sherlock Holmes and Cthulhu. I kid you not. It's amazing.

Finally, there is, of course, Sandman, but to be honest, that's a much different style of writing, mostly because it's a comic. Also, he wrote a couple of children's books, Coraline and The Graveyard Book, which I haven't read (although I did see Coraline the movie).

Oh, and one of the recent episodes of Doctor Who titled "The Doctor's Wife"... which was very much his style for all that it was a screenplay instead of a novel/short story...

Hope that helped!
REkzkaRZ
player, 17 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Wed 24 Aug 2011
at 07:40
  • msg #59

Re: MOPI

In reply to Kagura (msg #58):
Thanks!

Now to rant about Conan: sucked sucked sucked!  No redeeming features!  Horrible piece of crap, and insult to fantasy film fans, cinema in general, and Conan.  Another stupid Hollywood film that shows us the origin -- and gets it wrong completely -- in order to tell a story that has nothing to do with Conan!!

Bad dialogue, bad writing, bad cinematography, stupid monsters, bad acting, bad action scenes, bad plot.
Did I miss anything?!!?

The odds a gamer had anything to do with this film are ... low.

I don't know who thinks movies like this are sellable?!?  These kinds of movies are pathetic!

If they had done it as a deliberately funny / bad movie, so I could get a chuckle in once (besides at the scenes meant to be serious, that is), I'd be less upset.

So Arnold will be the best Conan?  Aaaaggghhhh!!!
Kagura
player, 14039 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Wed 24 Aug 2011
at 21:45
  • msg #60

The Hunger Games

jioan:
*HUNGER GAMES SPOILERS BELOW*

Everyone has been praising Hunger Games and perhaps for teen fiction it was good, but I found the whole book predictable.  The largest issue I had with the novel was was the illogical actions of the government and the gamemakers.  They could have easily chosen a winner and rigged the games.  (Those watching already thought it was rigged and expected one of the wealthier participants to win anyway.)  Instead they allowed the entire message they were trying to send to be reversed.  The victory of two companions from one of the poor towns proved that determination and cooperation can lead to victory over the government even at the worst odds.


I disagree with your assessment of the actions of the government and the gamemakers as "illogical". Consider that in 74 years of Hunger Games, what happened with Katniss and Peeta had NEVER happened before. One of the wealthier fiefs did win, fairly consistently. Choosing a winner would have defeated the purpose of the Games in the first place, the purpose being to remind the fiefs that their lives existed at the whims of the Capitol, and that EVEN the more wealthy fiefs could fall. Also keep in mind that by the time Katniss's story rolls around, kids have grown up understanding that there can only be one winner of the Hunger Games, and if they're chosen, then EVERYONE in that arena is their enemy, even the other kid from their fief. And that's what happened. 73 INDIVIDUALS won the Hunger Games.

But I'm rambling. The point I'm trying to make is that the actions of the government and the gamemakers were actually perfectly logical if you look at things from a point of view inside the world being created. It's a post-apocalyptic era where the entirety of a country is led by a president who is essentially a dictator trying to outlive his time. He may also be more than a little bit insane. The gamemakers are tasked with dressing up a battle royale between children from less-privileged areas as entertainment for the masses of the upper class citizens. Combine these facts and it's fairly easy to see exactly why the antagonists made the choices they did... or at least, it was easy for me to understand...

... I realize now, of course, that I should have started this all out with a question: What about the actions of the government and the game makers did you find to be illogical, jioan?
jioan
player, 3873 posts
Wed 24 Aug 2011
at 23:06
  • msg #61

Re: The Hunger Games

Kagura:
I disagree with your assessment of the actions of the government and the gamemakers as "illogical". Consider that in 74 years of Hunger Games, what happened with Katniss and Peeta had NEVER happened before. One of the wealthier fiefs did win, fairly consistently. Choosing a winner would have defeated the purpose of the Games in the first place, the purpose being to remind the fiefs that their lives existed at the whims of the Capitol, and that EVEN the more wealthy fiefs could fall. Also keep in mind that by the time Katniss's story rolls around, kids have grown up understanding that there can only be one winner of the Hunger Games, and if they're chosen, then EVERYONE in that arena is their enemy, even the other kid from their fief. And that's what happened. 73 INDIVIDUALS won the Hunger Games.

But I'm rambling. The point I'm trying to make is that the actions of the government and the gamemakers were actually perfectly logical if you look at things from a point of view inside the world being created. It's a post-apocalyptic era where the entirety of a country is led by a president who is essentially a dictator trying to outlive his time. He may also be more than a little bit insane. The gamemakers are tasked with dressing up a battle royale between children from less-privileged areas as entertainment for the masses of the upper class citizens. Combine these facts and it's fairly easy to see exactly why the antagonists made the choices they did... or at least, it was easy for me to understand...

... I realize now, of course, that I should have started this all out with a question: What about the actions of the government and the game makers did you find to be illogical, jioan?


I only read the first book so far and therefore can only discuss it, but the gamemakers appear to be the tools of the government used to form propaganda into entertainment.  The message they're supposed to send is one that makes the towns feel powerless and insignificant.  It's supposed to assist in forcing them into submission by showing they have absolute power over their children and all other aspects of their lives.  Having games like this makes sense from one perspective although it does seem that it would incite rebellion and fuel any resistance.  The government should be trying to make the districts feel part of the nation and proud of it as opposed to teaching them to despise their masters but I digress.

The gamemakers make the illogical decision of allowing compassionate axts such as Katniss taking care of Peeta.  This is against the message they are trying to send and splitting them up should have become a priority.  They want those willing to kill at all costs to get far in the game.  Once they figured out that Peeta and Katniss weren't those people they should have had one or both killed.  They don't do this for some reason and when given the choice between having no winner (never happened before but still imposes the idea that resistance is futile) or having two they choose having two!  Having two winners directly contradicts the propaganda.  Then they make the strangest choice of all by embracing the two winners as champions and turning the gladiator match into a love conquers all story which again directly contradicts the purpose of the games.  The government glorifies two people who broke the biggest rule in the game of having to kill all of the opponents.  They make them rich and convert them to celebrities for overcoming the immoral values that the gamemakers are a part of and supposed to be supporting.

I don't dislike the book because of this reason (that has more to deal with the tone and "drama"), but it did frustrate me and I think that a major yet simple change to the ending could have changed the impact that the book left no me.
firelizardkimi
player, 1578 posts
Gravity is a myth.
The Earth sucks.
Thu 25 Aug 2011
at 03:04
  • msg #62

Re: The Hunger Games

Read the next two books in the series, jioan. Things are much more complicated than originally revealed in the first book.
Kagura
player, 14041 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Thu 25 Aug 2011
at 03:10
  • msg #63

Re: The Hunger Games

jioan:
I only read the first book so far and therefore can only discuss it, but the gamemakers appear to be the tools of the government used to form propaganda into entertainment.  The message they're supposed to send is one that makes the towns feel powerless and insignificant.  It's supposed to assist in forcing them into submission by showing they have absolute power over their children and all other aspects of their lives.


Yes, that's their role exactly.

jioan:
Having games like this makes sense from one perspective although it does seem that it would incite rebellion and fuel any resistance.  The government should be trying to make the districts feel part of the nation and proud of it as opposed to teaching them to despise their masters but I digress.


I'm sure it did in the early years, but remember that this has now been going on for the better part of a century, and the fiefs are essentially kept in such poverty and divided that any rebellion would be very simple to put down. The reasoning behind the Games isn't really explained all that well until the second book though, so if you only read the first, your frustration with the motive and implementation makes sense.

jioan:
The gamemakers make the illogical decision of allowing compassionate axts such as Katniss taking care of Peeta.  This is against the message they are trying to send and splitting them up should have become a priority.  They want those willing to kill at all costs to get far in the game. Once they figured out that Peeta and Katniss weren't those people they should have had one or both killed.
<quote>

They allow the acts of compassion because even the target audience (the people of the Capitol who don't have to sacrifice their children to the Games) need compassion/romance to make interesting television. Also, that dynamic has the added draw of being a unique situation for a yearly murderfest show.

As for trying to kill them once they figure out that Peeta and Katniss aren't willing to kill at all costs, they do try that, but again, if the game makers get directly involved then that wouldn't make good television, especially since it isn't clear to the game makers until the very end that the pair have TRUE compassion for each other (think about it, the readers only know how Katniss is feeling because she's the narrator, but even the one person who is supposed to know the competitors best - their sponsor - treats the romance as a tool, not real emotion). The attempts to kill the two are therefore limited in scope, but they go from drought (to force them into the waiting weapons of the other remaining players) to an outright attempt at massacre (the mutant dogs... which were actually almost successful in killing the two).

Katniss's final play, the poison berries, was completely outside of the sort of thing that the game makers would have thought of, partially because that's not part of THEIR lives, and partially because NOBODY is supposed to have that kind of knowledge. Remember, Katniss and Gale going outside the fence in 12 to hunt was illegal.

<quote jioan>
They don't do this for some reason and when given the choice between having no winner (never happened before but still imposes the idea that resistance is futile) or having two they choose having two!  Having two winners directly contradicts the propaganda.  Then they make the strangest choice of all by embracing the two winners as champions and turning the gladiator match into a love conquers all story which again directly contradicts the purpose of the games.  The government glorifies two people who broke the biggest rule in the game of having to kill all of the opponents.  They make them rich and convert them to celebrities for overcoming the immoral values that the gamemakers are a part of and supposed to be supporting.


Again, I thought this decision made sense for the world the book was depicting. Killing the two remaining contestants would have set an unacceptable precedent for the Games and most likely WOULD have caused riots and rebellion. Remember again, that, for the Capitol audience, Katniss and Peeta are sympathetic characters. To kill both of them would have unsettled the Capitol because, if one of the rules of establishment was broken (by the Capitol allowing all of the Games contenders to die), then the stage would be set for ALL of the rules of the Games to be broken, including the one that said Capitol children were safe from the Reaping.

It would also have caused problems in the districts because, as you pointed out, Peeta and Katniss had become heroes of a sort for the districts. To kill them would have almost certainly united the districts, which was exactly the situation that the Capitol was attempting to avoid by allowing them both to live.

The "glorification" of the victors was more of a tradition, and again, to flaunt that would have been to allow an opening for unrest, so once the decision to allow them both to live was made, there was no other choice. However if you'd read the next book you'd have learned that, not only did President Snow attempt to use them as a propaganda tool, but he also threatened Katniss in person back in her district (by threatening the safety of her mother and sister) to keep her in line, although he never trusted her to do as he asked, and so kept her under close watch. Also, he managed (theoretically) to manipulate the next Games so that the competitors were former victors, sending Peeta and Katniss back into the arena where the game masters did their level best (although the head game master turned out to be an undercover rebel) to DESTROY the two completely...
REkzkaRZ
player, 23 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Thu 25 Aug 2011
at 06:35
  • msg #64

Re: The Hunger Games

Jjoan <--  ouch!  Didn't like Hunger Games?  Sorry for you on that...

Funny bc I'm normally very critical of unbelievable setup & scenarios, but in re: current world, I thought it was somewhat realistic.  I'm surprised we don't have fights to the death of (so-called '3rd world') kids now!!

The fact that the two hung together was NOT so crazy, bc Peta had loved Katniss from the earliest.

Second note -- have you ever seen a tie in the Olympics?!?  What country would prance around and say 'Ha Ha' if that happened?

As someone that finds sports a sad throwback to the Roman empire 'social control' days, it seemed like so much of the book held a criticism of our world today that I didn't nitpick much -- but I did find some of the lovey dovey-ness to be over the top.  But Katniss' had a sensibility thru the book that she wasn't playing the games against the other kids, as much as bucking the system constantly.

Reminded me of the black Olympians who gave a black power salute -- and were subsequently punished by USA.

Anyway ...  I'm psyched about the movie & hope it ain't too screwed up!!
Heath
GM, 15795 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Thu 25 Aug 2011
at 18:19
  • msg #65

Re: MOPI

REkzkaRZ:
In reply to Kagura (msg #58):
Thanks!

Now to rant about Conan: sucked sucked sucked!  No redeeming features!  Horrible piece of crap, and insult to fantasy film fans, cinema in general, and Conan.  Another stupid Hollywood film that shows us the origin -- and gets it wrong completely -- in order to tell a story that has nothing to do with Conan!!

Bad dialogue, bad writing, bad cinematography, stupid monsters, bad acting, bad action scenes, bad plot.
Did I miss anything?!!?

I was also disappointed in Conan, though not as much as you.  It was entertaining but forgettable.  Conan was not the Conan of the stories or previous movies, though I did enjoy the many references to the adventures penned by Robert E. Howard.  Conan had WAY too much charm and personality -- essentially, it was not Conan at all.  I failed to connect with the characters, whereas Conan the Barbarian with Arnold was compelling drama in its own right.  That's the result of John Milius and Oliver Stone at the helm.  If you watched HBO's Rome, you got another great sense of John Milius at work.

But this installment probably just killed the Conan franchise forever, unfortunately.  I read all the stories in the 80s growing up and hoped for the same kind of dark and gritty tone.  What I got was a fantasy hodgepodge of moving from one set piece to another without any real charm and without the engaging combat of the original.  Even the romance was completely unbelievable.

Arnold's movie brought you in on the romance and death of Valeria, and when he gives his "prayer" to Crom before the big battle, your heart gets pumping.  This movie has one mention of Crom offhand and no emotional connection to Conan -- who also should have been much more buff, by the way.

And yes, this movie was all Hollywood and no Conan.  Shame on them.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:20, Thu 25 Aug 2011.
jioan
player, 3875 posts
Thu 25 Aug 2011
at 21:09
  • msg #66

Re: The Hunger Games

Kagura:
I'm sure it did in the early years, but remember that this has now been going on for the better part of a century, and the fiefs are essentially kept in such poverty and divided that any rebellion would be very simple to put down. The reasoning behind the Games isn't really explained all that well until the second book though, so if you only read the first, your frustration with the motive and implementation makes sense.


I guess I'll have to finish the trilogy to have an opinion on the entire trilogy, however, it seems that a rebellion of some magnitude does occur, and I think that the games play a roll in the creation of that rebellion.



Kagura:
They allow the acts of compassion because even the target audience (the people of the Capitol who don't have to sacrifice their children to the Games) need compassion/romance to make interesting television. Also, that dynamic has the added draw of being a unique situation for a yearly murderfest show.

The games are first and foremost propaganda.  The source of the entertainment should support the propaganda not the other way around.


Kagura:
As for trying to kill them once they figure out that Peeta and Katniss aren't willing to kill at all costs, they do try that, but again, if the game makers get directly involved then that wouldn't make good television, especially since it isn't clear to the game makers until the very end that the pair have TRUE compassion for each other (think about it, the readers only know how Katniss is feeling because she's the narrator, but even the one person who is supposed to know the competitors best - their sponsor - treats the romance as a tool, not real emotion). The attempts to kill the two are therefore limited in scope, but they go from drought (to force them into the waiting weapons of the other remaining players) to an outright attempt at massacre (the mutant dogs... which were actually almost successful in killing the two).

Katniss's final play, the poison berries, was completely outside of the sort of thing that the game makers would have thought of, partially because that's not part of THEIR lives, and partially because NOBODY is supposed to have that kind of knowledge. Remember, Katniss and Gale going outside the fence in 12 to hunt was illegal.

The gamemakers easily could have rigged the game.  The simplistt way would have been to told the other players off camera where Katniss was hiding.  The gamemakers only have to maintain the appearance of not interfering. (Although everyone seems to already believe the games are rigged.)

Also, Katniss using a ton of effort, time, and her sponsor money to heal Peeta should have told the gamemakers something strange was going on.

Kagura:
Again, I thought this decision made sense for the world the book was depicting. Killing the two remaining contestants would have set an unacceptable precedent for the Games and most likely WOULD have caused riots and rebellion. Remember again, that, for the Capitol audience, Katniss and Peeta are sympathetic characters. To kill both of them would have unsettled the Capitol because, if one of the rules of establishment was broken (by the Capitol allowing all of the Games contenders to die), then the stage would be set for ALL of the rules of the Games to be broken, including the one that said Capitol children were safe from the Reaping.

It would also have caused problems in the districts because, as you pointed out, Peeta and Katniss had become heroes of a sort for the districts. To kill them would have almost certainly united the districts, which was exactly the situation that the Capitol was attempting to avoid by allowing them both to live.


If they had eaten the poison berries then the gamemakers could say that they weren't allowed to interfere at least on such short notice and both would have died with little blame on the government.  Anyway two people surviving is breaking the rules as much as one surviving but contradicts the message of the games.

Kagura:
The "glorification" of the victors was more of a tradition, and again, to flaunt that would have been to allow an opening for unrest, so once the decision to allow them both to live was made, there was no other choice. However if you'd read the next book you'd have learned that, not only did President Snow attempt to use them as a propaganda tool, but he also threatened Katniss in person back in her district (by threatening the safety of her mother and sister) to keep her in line, although he never trusted her to do as he asked, and so kept her under close watch. Also, he managed (theoretically) to manipulate the next Games so that the competitors were former victors, sending Peeta and Katniss back into the arena where the game masters did their level best (although the head game master turned out to be an undercover rebel) to DESTROY the two completely...

They could have at least downplayed the victory while plotting to kill the two of them.  I think they could have killed Katniss in the hospital after the games and come up with a rare medical accident that occurred. (Maybe she was allergic to a medicine in the procedure or shock put her into a coma.  They could have come up with something.)  They decided that breaking the most important rule in their game was a great thing, and I don't see how that helped the government at all.
Vixcis
player, 4556 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Sat 27 Aug 2011
at 15:45
  • msg #67

Re: The Hunger Games

These arguments work if the government was in complete power and nobody could question them but in the books the capital is struggling to maintain order. Some of the major points in the book were that a simple spark could start a rebellion. If they would have tried to do anything rigged or sneaky people would have found out no matter what, secretes get out especially when your government is full of moles. They kept Katniss alive because she was good television and creating good television was the government’s best option in controlling its people. It's the bread and circuses theory, you keep the people entertained and they forget their being oppressed.

P.s. If you have x-box live download the arcade game Bastion from the marketplace...I is SOOOOOOO good SO GOOD!!!!
jioan
player, 3884 posts
Sat 27 Aug 2011
at 21:37
  • msg #68

Re: The Hunger Games

Vixcis:
These arguments work if the government was in complete power and nobody could question them but in the books the capital is struggling to maintain order. Some of the major points in the book were that a simple spark could start a rebellion. If they would have tried to do anything rigged or sneaky people would have found out no matter what, secretes get out especially when your government is full of moles. They kept Katniss alive because she was good television and creating good television was the government’s best option in controlling its people. It's the bread and circuses theory, you keep the people entertained and they forget their being oppressed.


The games were already rigged but in ineffective ways.  If the government wanted bread and circuses then they would have had more than one gaming event a year.  They were trying to use the games as propaganda which it failed at when Katniss and Peeta both lived.
Kagura
player, 14057 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Sun 28 Aug 2011
at 01:06
  • msg #69

Re: The Hunger Games

The games -weren't- rigged. That was the whole point. They were, as Vixcis said, entertainment for the purpose of controlling the public. The Capitol had nothing to do with the richer fiefs training their kids for the Games, and you can't really call the hazards introduced "rigging". That was just part of the games.

If they were rigged, then it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for Peeta or Katniss to win. Period.
jioan
player, 3885 posts
Sun 28 Aug 2011
at 17:51
  • msg #70

Re: The Hunger Games

The purpose of bread and circuses is to have the audience entertained so that they don't care that they're being oppressed and manipulated.  Having a single event annually that usually doesn't last more than a few days doesn't provide enough entertainment to be considered breads and circuses.  As I've said before the game's primary goal is to impose on the general populace a sense of powerlessness.  They disguise it as entertainment.  If the government wanted bread and circuses then they would have offered gaming events throughout the year as well as other benefits to the impoverished.

The games are inherently rigged to some degree (just like reality shows such as Survivor) by the gamemakers.  They have the ability to launch any obstacle or hazard at a contestant without breaking any rules.  I don't remember very well, but I recall fireballs being shot at Katniss by the gamemakers.  That was ineffective but if one had killed Katniss I don't think that many people would have though it very odd.
Vixcis
player, 4559 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Sun 28 Aug 2011
at 23:58
  • msg #71

Re: The Hunger Games

They were rigged to a certain degree...The game controllers had to walk a thin tight rope of what they could get away with or not. They could certainly launch fireballs at Katniss but they had to give her some way of escaping or else the viewers would have cried foul. So while they could launch fireballs at her, they could not say...suddenly open a pit right under her feet without warning. They had to make it seem like she got killed because of a mistake she made. Like failing to dodge or run from a loud noise.

And the games were not the capitals only form of entertainment, their constant referrals to the changing fashion, people dying their skin color and other crazy such things to continuously keep them entertained. The games were just their biggest attraction. Even when the games weren't going they used the winners after the games were over and paraded them through the capitals and the city as entertainment.
jioan
player, 3888 posts
Mon 29 Aug 2011
at 02:13
  • msg #72

Re: The Hunger Games

The gamemakers can get away with just about anything it seems.  If they had for instance, continued to shoot fireballs until she died or caused a landslide then the majority of viewers might have called it bad taste but by no means an inhumane act.  They could have pushed her beyond her limits until she died.  They also had several ways that they could have secretly rigged the games such as telling the rich kids where she was off camera.  These gamemakers are supposed to be some of the most creative people in the land and therefore capable of coming up with a few ways to kill her or Peeta.  Worst case scenario is they could kill her and use video editing to make it look like a fireball hit her or something.

The everchanging fashion was a way to keep those who could afford it ignorant, but the games were not bread and circuses. (At least not as its primary objective.)  They were thinly veiled propaganda where people watched children die.  Even the popular ones.  If Katniss or Peeta had died, and even if the gamemakers were sloppy, nobody would have cared enough to cause as much damage to the government's reputation as having multiple winners.
REkzkaRZ
player, 28 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Mon 29 Aug 2011
at 07:50
  • msg #73

Re: The Hunger Games

JJoan, your points are interesting "WHAT IF'S", but I think you're missing a key part of the book.

We watch football/baseball/soccer/hockey/etc, have all kinds of silly fashions (like pants with PINK on the butt), and yet ...

People in so-called 3rd world countries are supplying us with grain, rice, coffee, fruit, etc.  If they realized their power, they could rise up and shake off the yoke of domination.

While I hear you digging into the problems of 'the game', it was a very interesting device which was a way for rebellion to foment.  The survivors sparked rebellions throughout their worlds.

Whether games makers could shoot 100 fireballs or electrocute all of them in the water is perhaps true.  I suppose the author could have had any scenarious she wanted to tell her story.

The story is the point of the book, and there's a lot that takes place that explains interpersonal issues in the book.

I'm not a sports person at all, but I found the book very entertaining.  For some reason, the game really bugged you b/c you didn't see how they could win the game?  Correct?
I recall continually in the book the author had some (IMO) awkward sentences explaining how Katniss reads the thinking of the games makers.  Did you disagree with that part as well?  Sounds like her explanations were not enough for you?

Rather than debate or explicate this more, I'm trying to get to JJOAN's core argument.
jioan
player, 3890 posts
Mon 29 Aug 2011
at 10:45
  • msg #74

Re: The Hunger Games

My core frustration is that the gamemakers didn't force the games to produce a single winner when they had so many chances to.

I understand that the author was going for a dark and frighteningly realistic world, but I found it to be a flawed scenario in a rather average post apocalyptic empire.  The book had several chances to become darker but didn't take them.  It turns into a love conquers all story when both Peeta and Katniss survive and are then treated as celebrities.

My name's jioan by the way.
This message was last edited by the player at 10:59, Mon 29 Aug 2011.
REkzkaRZ
player, 38 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Tue 30 Aug 2011
at 07:30
  • msg #75

Re: The Hunger Games

jioan -- apologies on the mistyping of your name.  Gaaah!

As for 'darker world', I think they didn't go there b/c it's a kids book.  I suppose kids could handle 'darker', but then again -- it worked for me.
Kagura
player, 14066 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Tue 30 Aug 2011
at 11:12
  • msg #76

Re: The Hunger Games

Technically it's "teen fiction"... which is different from kids books these days.

I don't know about MODERN teenagers, but I read stuff like Phillip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" trilogy when I was younger (I actually read it when I found it in the library in seventh grade)... of course, I was also reading Asimov and McCafferey when I was younger (like, in elementary school), but that's besides the point.

I see no reason why teenagers/children should not be able to read "darker" works...
REkzkaRZ
player, 41 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Tue 30 Aug 2011
at 11:53
  • msg #77

Re: The Hunger Games

I agree that they should be able to read them ...

Harry Potter was pretty dark.  (snicker)

But I doubt that really heavy issues, really 'dark' stuff (ie ultra gory zombies, vampires who rape & are vile, wolves that jump up and tear your sensitive bits off) are going to be marketed as 'teen fiction'.
Kagura
player, 14067 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Tue 30 Aug 2011
at 20:07
  • msg #78

Re: The Hunger Games

Lame. We wrap our kids in so much cotton a bubble wrap these days that it's surprising that they grow up to be functional human beings instead of living in some perfect fantasy world...

... our kids do grow up to be functional human beings, don't they?
jioan
player, 3902 posts
Tue 30 Aug 2011
at 20:08
  • msg #79

Re: The Hunger Games

What you described aren't so much dark plots as they are vivid mature scenes.  A novel that frequently challenges the morals and values of the reader is what I consider a dark story.
Kagura
player, 14071 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Tue 30 Aug 2011
at 20:20
  • msg #80

Re: The Hunger Games

His Dark Materials.

THAT will challenge your morals and values!
jioan
player, 3909 posts
Tue 30 Aug 2011
at 20:23
  • msg #81

Re: The Hunger Games

I read it when I was younger and while I knew it was dark I instead paid more attention to the animal spirit companions, the polar bears fighting, and the overall shallower parts.  It wasn't until the movie came out and there was some unearthed controversy that I reread it and understood most of what the author was trying to say.

I agree.  Quite dark.
Kagura
player, 14073 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Tue 30 Aug 2011
at 20:39
  • msg #82

Teen Fiction

I really love those books. I also mostly focused on the lighter bits when I first read them, but then in subsequent readings I focused more on what Pullman's message was. Messages. Were. Whatever.

I admit though, I'm hard-pressed to come up with many more young-adult or teen series that manage to do the same thing. Diane Duane's Young Wizards series, maybe, or some of the stuff by Diana Wynne Jones and Tamora Pierce. Oh, and Lemony Snicket's Series of Unfortunate Events. Which were intentionally dark because everything else wasn't. And recently the Witch & Wizard series, although that one's sort of along the lines of the Hunger Games.

Beyond that... I dunno... I never really read kids books as a kid. I read adult books as a kid, and then I've been slowly going back and finding worthwhile teen fiction now that I'm an adult (although the Jones and Pierce books I did read in middle school). Unfortunately it's been really hard to find anything good in a bookstore these days... all they stock is "popular" teen fiction, which, naturally, has moved to focus on sexy vampires and werewolves in the style of Twilight (generally minus the glitter though, I think) and romance, rather than anything truly worthwhile...
jioan
player, 3912 posts
Tue 30 Aug 2011
at 21:51
  • msg #83

Re: Teen Fiction

Here are some children's books I remember being dark but I haven't read most of them recently so I'm not sure if they are dark for adults.

Bartimaeus Trilogy
Fall of a Kingdom
Ender's Game
Abhorsen Trilogy
Wizard of Earthsea
Homeland (The only dark Drizzt book I remember.)
The Secret Garden
Chronicles of Narnia
Kagura
player, 14076 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Wed 31 Aug 2011
at 02:18
  • msg #84

Re: Teen Fiction

jioan:
Here are some children's books I remember being dark but I haven't read most of them recently so I'm not sure if they are dark for adults.

Bartimaeus Trilogy
Fall of a Kingdom
Ender's Game
Abhorsen Trilogy
Wizard of Earthsea
Homeland (The only dark Drizzt book I remember.)
The Secret Garden
Chronicles of Narnia


See, I wouldn't call Ender's Game or Wizard of Earthsea "children's books". They were written for adults (although I know at least Ender's Game is now classified in the Teen fiction section of the bookstore). I remember attempting to read Wizard of Earthsea when I was in elementary school (at which point I was already routinely reading books from my dad's rather extensive collection of science fiction), but it just wasn't interesting to me... of course, most of that was because I disliked LeGuin's writing style, but that's besides the point. :D I think I made it about three quarters of the way through before I just stopped reading it.

Also, I wouldn't particularly call the Chronicles of Narnia dark. Chronicles of Narnia were about religion, magic, and the triumph of good over evil. There was very little moral/emotional conflict (I don't count Edmund's flirtation with the Dark Side in LWW as moral/emotional conflict, it was just a middle child acting out because he didn't feel like he was getting the attention he deserved, likewise his cousin's behavior in VDT was just a spoiled only child acting out for the same reason).

The Secret Garden, and for that matter, The Little Princess, both had dark elements, especially The Little Princess. However those both reflect the kinds of values for young girls from the era in which they were originally published... the early 1900s. They're both about little girls who, for some reason, find themselves in an adverse situation, but make the best of it using Victorian values, staying out of the way of their oppressive antagonist and creating their own worlds. And, of course, by being proper young ladies, they manage to reach a happy ending. They're more like novelized "moral stories" than anything. Not so much dark as maybe a little overcast...
jioan
player, 3913 posts
Wed 31 Aug 2011
at 03:14
  • msg #85

Re: Teen Fiction

I realize that Chronicles of Narina isn't very dark but when I was younger I didn't see the religious allegory.  The death of Aslan and betrayal of Edmond(something I see now as especially frightening because it displays the ignorance and gullibility of children showing how easy they are to manipulate.) were both dark to me.

The reason I listed it is because of The Final Battle which contains both an antichrist figure and an apocalypse where everyone dies and many are lost forever.  Not to mention Susan might not make it to heaven with everyone else.  I was very frustrated with the book when I first finished it because I wanted Aslan to come and set everything straight but instead Narnia was destroyed.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:15, Wed 31 Aug 2011.
Kagura
player, 14079 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Wed 31 Aug 2011
at 12:59
  • msg #86

Re: Teen Fiction

See, even though I also didn't see the religious allegory when I was younger, Edmund's betrayal and Aslan's death both just seemed like the normal things that HAPPEN in books to me. Especially since Edmund was redeemed, and Aslan came back.

I don't remember the Final Battle that well, since I only read it once, so I can't converse properly on that one.
Vixcis
player, 4561 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Thu 1 Sep 2011
at 00:37
  • msg #87

Re: Teen Fiction

I never realized they were religious until the movie came out...They were always amazing to me, now I feel less amazed and more dissapointed. I liked them for thier story not hidden messeges. It's like reading animal farm and over analyzing it.
jioan
player, 3918 posts
Thu 1 Sep 2011
at 02:26
  • msg #88

Re: Teen Fiction

Unless being forced to interpret symbolism for a class you can really just read over it.  Well, in most books.  In Amber Spyglass that's almost impossible for the last portion of it at least.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:30, Thu 01 Sept 2011.
Vixcis
player, 4564 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Thu 1 Sep 2011
at 03:14
  • msg #89

Re: Teen Fiction

I hate it when you’re reading a book and you have this sneaking suspicion that it's trying to teach you morals...It makes me all suspicious and I have to read with squinty cynical eyes.
REkzkaRZ
player, 48 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Thu 1 Sep 2011
at 12:19
  • msg #90

Re: The Hunger Games

Kagura:
His Dark Materials.

I was going to read that, but I saw the movie ... and it was ... neither very dark nor very good.  Kinda liked the Polar Bears.  Sorta.
Anyway, didn't read it.

In terms of what is dark, I really liked Lloyd Alexander's 'Taran Wanderer' series, which I thought was pretty dark.

One of the books had a long quest where the hero finds a 'mirror' which is a pool which shows you your reflection, and the hero realizes his mortality.  Plus lots of harsh things happened to him to push him into the hero role.  Quite a good read, kept all the books for a re-read.  Haven't done it yet.  Def kids books, too.
Kagura
player, 14083 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Thu 1 Sep 2011
at 13:27
  • msg #91

Re: Teen Fiction

Oh ugh, ugh no! You cannot base your opinion of the His Dark Materials series on that travesty. It ruined EVERYTHING.

Read the books. Trust me. They are amazing. Just read them. Come back and talk to me when you're done. :D

Lloyd Alexander hm? His works have crossed my radar several times, but I never actually picked up any of his books. Tell you what, I will track down this "Taran Wanderer" series of which you speak, if you promise to read Phillip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" series. Then we can trade opinions. It will be fun. ^_^
Vixcis
player, 4566 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Sat 3 Sep 2011
at 00:18
  • msg #92

Re: Teen Fiction

NO NO NO!!! The movie didn't even come close to the books!! It dosen't even have the best character in it!

Taran wanderer...That's black couldron and such right?
Kagura
player, 14098 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Sun 4 Sep 2011
at 01:18
  • msg #93

Re: Teen Fiction

Doesn't have a lot of the characters, combines others in completely unacceptable ways, changes orders of events, changes the import of events, eliminates some of the most important scenes. Yeah. I really hate that movie... except for one thing: I loved how they did the daemons.
REkzkaRZ
player, 61 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Sun 4 Sep 2011
at 10:50
  • msg #94

Re: Teen Fiction

Forgive me, I misnamed -- 'Chronicles of Prydain', not 'Taran Wanderer' series.
Regardless, amazing.

I'm not committing to reading His Dark Materials unless the book comes my way.
Right now reading a pre-release of Neil Stephenson's newest book, REAMDE.
I like his books, read most of the slender ones, but miss the days when he was *heavily* edited!
Yeesh!
(I refused to read that trilogy of tomes he wrote...  But I did read 'Cryptonomicon' ...
and regretted it, bc around pg 480 Stephenson just seems bored of the story and
has most of the interesting characters randomly die.  *Very frustrating.*
Tanner
player, 22 posts
Wait... you mean the
green goop isn't edible?
Sun 4 Sep 2011
at 11:19
  • msg #95

Re: Teen Fiction

I feel really dumb because I thouroughly enjoyed the Pendragon Series, then found out it was for 5th graders T-T
jioan
player, 3941 posts
Sun 4 Sep 2011
at 12:43
  • msg #96

Re: Teen Fiction

That series was a weird rollercoaster of quality for me.

Anyways, reading something intended for kids isn't bad.  Just look at the popularity of Harry Potter with adults.
Kagura
player, 14102 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Sun 4 Sep 2011
at 14:59
  • msg #97

Re: Teen Fiction

Yeah, I liked the Artemis Fowl books when I was in college... still do, if I'm being honest.

They're not super high-quality reading or anything, but the story and characters amuse me and make me grin.
firelizardkimi
player, 1584 posts
Gravity is a myth.
The Earth sucks.
Sun 4 Sep 2011
at 15:21
  • msg #98

Re: Teen Fiction

jioan:
Anyways, reading something intended for kids isn't bad.  Just look at the popularity of Harry Potter with adults.


Yeah, but remember that the series took about a decade to write. Kids grew up with Harry, so the subject matter got more and more adult as the series progressed and the books got longer.

P.S. Tanner, I also really enjoyed the Pendragon Series.
Tanner
player, 30 posts
Wait... you mean the
green goop isn't edible?
Sun 4 Sep 2011
at 15:57
  • msg #99

Re: Teen Fiction

firelizardkimi:
P.S. Tanner, I also really enjoyed the Pendragon Series.


LIKE! :D

Although I do agree that DJ did a whole rollercoster of different styles... he went from non-graphic to a really graphic (Black Waters) which really threw me.
REkzkaRZ
player, 68 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Mon 5 Sep 2011
at 12:13
  • msg #100

Re: Teen Fiction

firelizardkimi:
So the subject matter [Harry Potter] got more and more adult as the series progressed and the books got longer.

It did?  Huh!  I didn't read any more books after Book 1 (I tried... but stopped with disgust/disdain), but I did see the last movie where the baddie was shouting 'Avracadavra' all over the place, no one lost their virginity, and I don't believe we heard even one curse word.

Not that this makes adult content, but -- I didn't see any particularly adult content in the movie, except a fairly dull movie *chock full of CG*.
I also watched a behind the scenes interview, where I was stunned to hear a filmmaker say the challenge of CG is to make it look real!!!  Sorry dudes, but you failed -- nothing in the CG of Harry Potter looked real (even the acting!  Gah!).

While we're talking about Harry Potter, aka Harry Pooper, 'the poop', and Hairy Twatter, I have to say ... I really liked Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit, but I really thought everything about Harry Potter sucked a HUGE one.  I can't think of one piece where I thought, "Hey that's cool" (this incl's Quidditch, owls, muggles, wands, 'you know who', Hogwarts, etc -- even the earwax candy).  Generally I thought, "blech".

Anyone else agree on that assessment?
jioan
player, 3949 posts
Mon 5 Sep 2011
at 12:56
  • msg #101

Re: Teen Fiction

I liked Harry Potter, but the films have never been that great.  It's just fun to see the characters on the screen.  The first 2 or 3 books are the weakest by far, and I think other series such Pendragon or Percy Jackson have much better starts.  Once it picks up, however, there is a suspenseful read with likeable characters and an intricate plot that had been set before the first word was written.

The Deathly Hollows is somewhat dark containing elements such as death, sacrifice, betrayal, bigotry, hopelessness, gray morality, and surrender.  It may not be adult content, but it'll make you think.
REkzkaRZ
player, 75 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Mon 5 Sep 2011
at 13:22
  • msg #102

Re: Teen Fiction

I wasn't clear in the movies why the 3 objects were called the Deathly Hallows...  But, as I said, HP didn't draw me in & I didn't really give a crap.

I'm much more interested in why Tolkien made the super-item a ring, rather than a bunch of power items or a matching set...?  He did have the other rings, which apparently had some power, but the subsequent power is to drain your soul & make you a death rider.

Now THAT'S dark!
Tanner
player, 46 posts
Wait... you mean the
green goop isn't edible?
Mon 5 Sep 2011
at 20:04
  • msg #103

Re: Teen Fiction

Deathlt Hollows is what made a wizard control/become death itself.

The cloak of invisibility
The stone/ring of ressurection
and the elder wand

I think that concept was my favorite part of the movie XD and I agree with Jioan. although Percy Jackson could never "hook" me. But the concept that a ring makes you a death rider, is pretty dark...
Kagura
player, 14108 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Mon 5 Sep 2011
at 21:06
  • msg #104

Re: Teen Fiction

In reply to REkzkaRZ (msg #100):

The books did get more adult as the series progressed, although I wouldn't say that they ever progressed much past "teen fiction".

As for LotR... I actually liked the movies a lot more than I liked the books. I found the books to be dense, wordy, and generally difficult to get through. I also didn't see them as anything special. Just your typical fantasy-world fare of dragons, elves, wizards, dwarves and a quest to destroy evil. Honestly, I thought (and still do think) that the best part of the books (including The Hobbit) was 1.) Riddles in the Dark and 2.) the bit in The Fellowship of the Ring with Tom Bombadil. I was sad when they didn't put that in the movie, but I understand why they didn't.

Comparing Harry Potter to LotR, I found Harry Potter a LOT more readable and fun. It WAS something special, although if you ask me to explain why, I really couldn't explain it. It just  is. The movies not as much, but the books, definitely.

Finally: While it is understood that you don't particularly like Harry Potter it would still be nice if you could refrain from calling it insulting names. That wasn't necessary to make your point, and it's just plain rude. It would be appreciated if you would consider that in the future before posting, for ANY of your posts.
Discreet
player, 2332 posts
Tue 6 Sep 2011
at 01:34
  • msg #105

Re: Teen Fiction

Honestly, I was going through those challenging teen years where you shun anything that makes you appear to like childish things, when HP was first becoming main stream--which was when I first discovered it. So I didn't really like it. I wanted it to be childish and beneath me.

But I went to the movie none the less, when it first came out, because a friend wanted to. And it was -decent- but I still didn't want to check like it.

Years later, when I grew up, and gave it a real shot. I like it. I read the first six books in like 2 weeks or something like that, and was absolutely addicted.

The HP mythos is very in depth and has many subtle and interesting ties to real world myths, including but not limited to boggarts, mandrake roots, etc..

The fact that different materials makes for different capabilities in wands was interesting and accurate to modern myths---ash for example, often used in myth--I want to say Achilles spear or something was made of ash.

And the deathly hallows myth was awesome. ( and it was explained in the movies..) It was very reminiscent to me of the "Death and the Soldier" Myth, and Perseus Myth, with the cap of invisibility.


As for Tolkien, I found his writing to be a bit dry too-- altough I loved the Hobbit as well, but his books are adored for the similar reason, in that there is massive depth within it. So much so that many of our favorite RP systems are strongly based around his works.

Quick example--- Don't even try and tell me that Evermeet--in the Forgotten Realms Campaign setting isn't the Island that the elves go when the leave Middle Earth.  And Warhammer Fantasy? >_> Well. That entire thing is just a blatant rip. I'm pretty sure halfling's leaf is straight up in the books. And the high elves ride eagles for a reason.


I'm ranting. e_e Sorry.
jioan
player, 3964 posts
Tue 6 Sep 2011
at 02:56
  • msg #106

Re: Teen Fiction

I liked reading LotR except for most of the second half of Two Towers.  They spent a whole chapter describing how they climbed a hill.  I understand why people didn't like them, but they deserve respect as the birthplace of modern fantasy no matter your opinion on the trilogy.
REkzkaRZ
player, 81 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Tue 6 Sep 2011
at 07:37
  • msg #107

Re: Teen Fiction

I loved the Tolkien books, felt the stories were incredible.

That's not to say that I didn't skip tons of description, and the endless songs.  Tolkien will spend pages describing foliage!

I agree about the absence of Tom Bombadil -- I was truly shocked that he didn't make the movie.  With one fell swoop, Peter Jackson (or the writers) eliminated Druids from Middle Earth!
jioan
player, 3967 posts
Tue 6 Sep 2011
at 10:37
  • msg #108

Re: Teen Fiction

Well, there was Radagast the Brown.  Oh wait, they cut him too.
Heath
GM, 15824 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Tue 6 Sep 2011
at 17:16
  • msg #109

Books

Kagura:
As for LotR... I actually liked the movies a lot more than I liked the books.

I agree.  I've read LotR several times, but the key difference is that the movies are very compelling while the books are just an engaging fantasy world.  I find that's the difference with much of the fiction that is just interesting versus compelling.  Movies have a difficult time getting away with stories they do not make compelling because people don't have the patience.

I always thought it would be funny if someone rewrote LotR as a "book based on the movie" series, and then compare them to the original.
REkzkaRZ
player, 121 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 06:53
  • msg #110

Re: Books

Sidenote on LOTR
-- the books are an adventure based on travel to unknown lands, with some battles.
-- the movies are mostly fantasy action movies which use the intricate plot to explain 3 movies worth of action.

Anyway -- back to new movies -- anyone wanna rip on Conan w/me?  Man that was a disappointing movie!
My g/f enjoyed one part, where Conan flexes his naked butt.

I laughed out loud at the beginning where they had a 'Conan in the womb' scene, but I'm not sure it was b/c I was entertained -- more I was horrified at how bad this movie would be.  (And it was baaaAAAaad!)

I'm still hopefull about John Carter (on Mars) movie, but odds are it'll suck the big one also.  If they can stay true to the books, we fans of the series have a slim chance...!  (BTW, great reads by Edgar Rice Burroughs, all are free/public domain now.)
Kagura
player, 14116 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 11:42
  • msg #111

Re: Books

REkzkaRZ:
My g/f enjoyed one part, where Conan flexes his naked butt.


So... basically it was just like Thor? Except in Thor it was shirtless Chris Hemsworth in tight, low-riding jeans... mmm... :D
REkzkaRZ
player, 131 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 12:05
  • msg #112

Re: Books

Uh uh!  Sorry, I liked Thor.
In fact, I thought the producers handled Thor w/almost the perfect tone.
    a) they kept it very similar to the comic
    b) looked great
    c) humorous, didn't take it's 'godliness' too seriously
    d) all actors did fine
    e) action was entertaining
    f) plot was well-written
    g) good villain
    h) dialogue was pretty good

To counter those points with Conan (2011);
    a) very little in common w/books
    b) looked ok most of the time (except end scene almost looked like shadows on the green screen -- but by then no-one cared...!)
    c) actually took itself seriously!  GAH
    d) horrible acting (Conan didn't sound like a barbarian!, awkward sex scene, even more awkward ending scene)
    e) action sucked (badly filmed, stupid, shakey-cam to the 10th power, bad choreography)
    f) plot was *horrible* (in-utero birth scene, young Conan w/egg in mouth, father tortured as foreshadowing to villain fight)
    g) villain was awful (Schwarzenegger-Conan got to fight a snake priest and a statue God!  Momoa-Conan he fights a weightlifter in a mask and some wimpy CG sand-spirits.  Yawn!)
    h) dialogue was *horrible* ("you must understand the sword", "I live, I love, I slay, and I am content", "my nose!", etc)

While watching Conan, I kept thinking, 'I wonder if this would be more bearable if I had a squad of friends here to yell at this movie?' -- but I wasn't sure, b/c it truly sucked that badly!
jioan
player, 3988 posts
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 21:08
  • msg #113

Re: Books

REkzkaRZ:
a) they kept it very similar to the comic


I liked the Thor movie as well, but it was very very different from the comic book origin.
Heath
GM, 15832 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 21:14
  • msg #114

Re: Books

Rek sure hated Conan even more than I did.  The plot diversions bothered me most.  Though I thought the egg in the mouth scene was pretty cool on one hand, it had little to do with the plot other than to show Conan's innate prowess.

The utero scene was also irrelevant and should have been scrapped.

And yes, the bad guy and the final fight, although they did well with the action sequence/special effects, were a yawn because by then I never felt real danger or that this villain was all that horribly dangerous.

And yes, Momoa's accent (or lack thereof) made him seem like not a barbarian at all...and that probably bothered me most.  He was too intelligent and friendly.  Love scene wasn't awkward but it seemed to come out of nowhere and served minimal plot function that didn't make it seem natural.

Dialogue would have been better if they'd just had him keep his mouth shut and fight and grunt.
Kagura
player, 14120 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 21:39
  • msg #115

Re: Books

REkzkaRZ:
Uh uh!  Sorry, I liked Thor.
In fact, I thought the producers handled Thor w/almost the perfect tone.
    a) they kept it very similar to the comic
    b) looked great
    c) humorous, didn't take it's 'godliness' too seriously
    d) all actors did fine
    e) action was entertaining
    f) plot was well-written
    g) good villain
    h) dialogue was pretty good


I'm ignoring the Conan stuff because I neither read the books, nor do I plan to see the movie, and am instead focusing on what I know and understand.

That said:

a.) Um... okay, if you say so. I never read the Thor comics, but I'm a huge fan of the mythology upon which that particular series is based.

b.) Oh sure. I'll give you that. I -did- mention the shirtless Chris Hemsworth, did I not? :D Oh, but uh... the SFX were pretty cool too... ^_^

c.) I don't know. I found some of the "humor" a little too over the top leaning towards the completely ludicrous. See the scene where Thor's friends pose against the glass doors.

d.) I don't argue this. I particularly liked Tom Hiddleston's Loki. He totally stole the entire movie.

e.) Well, yes. But it was an action movie by Marvel, so I wasn't surprised.

f.) No. No it was not. There was no character development for the title character AT ALL, and in an "origins" movie like this, that's kind of the whole point... character development for the title character happening, I mean. But seriously, Thor was all like "Oh, I'm a god and mortals are weak and fighting rules!" and then suddenly after about two days on Earth he's like "I'm all noble and going to sacrifice myself for this girl I BARELY KNOW." No. That is not good plot. That is not well-written plot. That is a cop out. The only character in the entire film who showed ANY character development was Loki, and he's the villain!!! Seriously. Not a fantastic plot. They could have handled it SO much better.

g.) Yes. Loki is the best villain. Ever. In the history of ever. Even though he's not -technically- a villain in the original mythology. I mean, he does, both directly and indirectly, bring about Ragnarok, but it's not really his fault. It's all because Fate said he would, and, well, he IS a trickster...

h.) Umm... yes and no. This goes along with the plot. There were some good lines, but for the most part I found the dialogue flat and meaningless. The best dialogues involved Loki or Agent Coulson. It's a pity that there wasn't a scene with the two of them talking. That would have been epic, and I would have died from the sheer awesomeness of it all.
jioan
player, 3994 posts
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 21:58
  • msg #116

Re: Books

So I'm guessing you're psyched that the Avengers villain is Loki.
Kagura
player, 14123 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 22:00
  • msg #117

Re: Books

Totally. It will be full of so much awesome and win. SO MUCH AWESOME AND WIN.

... and if they don't screw it up, I will pay to see that movie about eight times just for the Loki.
REkzkaRZ
player, 139 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 23:10
  • msg #118

Re: Books

@ Heath -- agreed.  Egg scene would've been great if movie was not Sword of Conan but 'Young Conan'.  Ha
Also,iIf Momoa had shut up, would've been better.  (Not his call tho.)

@ Kagura -- I agree that Thor's turn-around was *very fast*, and they did a 'Superman' movie where Superman has no powers for a bunch.  But I never want to see an 'origins' movie again, when the entire story can be told as a 10 second flashback!

I also thought that maybe for an immortal, it would only take a day or two powerless around mortals to realize some of your character issues -- and for Thor it was pride and overconfidence.  His self-sacriice to the (cheesy CGI) god-bot for his 'He-Man' & Shira (and token Japanese guy?!?) buddies & the mortals was a lesson Odin wanted him to have.
Kissing the female doc was also contrived, but I kept thinking about her viewpoint -- how crazy would it be to be a astronomer/astrophycist kissing the Norse God of Thunder/Lightning who also turns out to be a multidimensional entity who uses a dimension-hopping bridge -- which is the same tech you're inventing...?

Well, maybe that's multiple thoughts...?

Last on Conan -- when the mask was complete, my gf and I both LOL'd about the 'blood-drinking sphincter' inside the mask (the deadly 'wiggly-hat'), which of course the baddie sticks to his forehead!!!  We were hoping for a squishy sucking noise!  Heh
Heath
GM, 15834 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Wed 7 Sep 2011
at 23:14
  • msg #119

Re: Books

I still think the original Conan the Barbarian is one of the best fantasy films ever made, second only to Lord of the Rings.
jioan
player, 3997 posts
Thu 8 Sep 2011
at 00:03
  • msg #120

Re: Books

*cough* The Princess Bride *cough*
Heath
GM, 15835 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Thu 8 Sep 2011
at 00:25
  • msg #121

Re: Books

That doesn't count.  It's too farcical to be in the same category.  Good movie, but I'm talking about dramatic efforts that take the genre seriously.
Vixcis
player, 4578 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Thu 8 Sep 2011
at 01:57
  • msg #122

Re: Books

I'll take willow

YOU'RE ALL PIGS!!! PIGS!!!!
REkzkaRZ
player, 147 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Thu 8 Sep 2011
at 07:15
  • msg #123

Re: Books

Willow -- amazing for it's time.
Princess Bride -- WOW.  Funny, beautiful, amazing dialogue.
Legend -- Oh man, fun to rewatch!
The Dark Crystal -- love this film.
Time Bandits -- strange, fun, weird.
Labyrinth -- Great!
Neverending Story -- my g/f can watch this over and over.

I'm also a fan of orig Conan & LOTR movies.  I think that fantasy is better served by great writing and less CG, as Princess Bridge illustrated amazingly.
Vixcis
player, 4579 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Thu 8 Sep 2011
at 08:32
  • msg #124

Re: Books

oooo yes...Labryinth is my everything! Jareth come and take me away!
Kagura
player, 14124 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Thu 8 Sep 2011
at 11:42
  • msg #125

Re: Books

Is that a crystal in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me? :D

Jareth <3

When can MY glittery, magical, sympathetic-villain king come and take me away to his castle?
jioan
player, 4077 posts
Sun 11 Sep 2011
at 02:22
  • msg #126

Re: Books

Time Bandits?  Never heard of it.  What's it about?
Kagura
player, 14158 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Sun 11 Sep 2011
at 02:37
  • msg #127

Re: Books

People who steal time? Or maybe people who travel in time and steal things?
REkzkaRZ
player, 201 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Sun 11 Sep 2011
at 06:50
  • msg #128

Re: Books

Time Bandits -- classic fantasy / strange movie about 'little people' that go thru time & space stealing stuff.  Classic cult film!

Your Highness -- just RedBox'd it in Blu-Ray & laughed my butt off.  Totally inappropriate over-the-top dialogue which doesn't take itself seriously.  Natalie Portman is hilarious, along w/the 2 male leads & supporting cast.  I am sadly disappointed how a B movie like this can kill Conan -- but it wasn't a 'low budget' film.
*I recommend* to anyone who can handle quite sexual humor and general immaturity.  (My gf was not a fan.)
jioan
player, 4098 posts
Sun 11 Sep 2011
at 17:23
  • msg #129

Re: Books

They used a set from that movie in Game of Thrones.
REkzkaRZ
player, 229 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Mon 12 Sep 2011
at 03:01
  • msg #130

Re: Books

By that movie you mean 'Your Highness' for Game/Thrones?
That's awesome!  Also, I got a kick out of Natalie Portman cursing.
FourLegged
GM, 38941 posts
Quadruped Phascolarctos
Cinereus Unsquisheus
Mon 12 Sep 2011
at 16:27
  • msg #131

Re: Books

I have not summoned the effort to see Your Highness.
REkzkaRZ
player, 263 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Mon 12 Sep 2011
at 19:01
  • msg #132

Re: Books

I figured it was a renter.
More dirty like Clerks II than like Cheech & Chong.
Heath
GM, 15862 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Wed 21 Sep 2011
at 17:21
  • msg #133

Re: Books

I finally started watching the "Big Bang Theory" yesterday.  Can't believe I missed it over the years, though it reminds me a little too much of my college days.
REkzkaRZ
player, 360 posts
/start rant
/end rant
Wed 21 Sep 2011
at 21:31
  • msg #134

Re: Books

What is it?  Recommendable, or were the college days not so good?
Was law school fun?!?
Kagura
player, 14220 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Wed 21 Sep 2011
at 22:43
  • msg #135

Re: Books

I just watched the pilot episode. It's... cute... you know, for a sitcom.

I'm just not generally a fan of sitcoms.
Heath
GM, 15865 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Thu 22 Sep 2011
at 00:07
  • msg #136

Re: Books

REkzkaRZ:
What is it?  Recommendable, or were the college days not so good?
Was law school fun?!?

It is about these really smart college guys who socially inept.  You get all the Lord of the Rings, Superman, World of Warcraft and similar topics as they relate everything to science and their high IQ perception of the world.  It is very clever.
MajorMurray
player, 104 posts
I'm so happy
just look at my portrait
Thu 22 Sep 2011
at 04:09
  • msg #137

Re: Books

Has anyone read the Ciaphas Cain books by Sandy Mitchell, I'm getting into it, and I love it. It's a WH40k book, from Black Libary. It's actually a lot different from the other BL books out there.
REkzkaRZ
player, 367 posts
/start rant
/end rant
Thu 22 Sep 2011
at 12:06
  • msg #138

Re: Books

MajMur, sorry haven't read it.

At one point, I did attempt to read *all* the ShadowRun novels, and it was a lot of fun.  Each read in 1-2 days (if they were any good), and more than 1/2 were pretty good reads.  Pretty sure most authors used pen-names...?

The only TV I'm watching lately is True Blood, Game of Thrones, and just watched the Charlie Sheen Roast (Charlie was looking quite good there, btw).  Don't think any of those qualify as SitComs.

My gf watches *the worst* TV, namely the Kardashians, another reality show with the blonde former playmate lady, and we have watched a couple "Jersey Shore" shows together.  I like Jersey Shore the best of the bunch, b/c the people seems fairly real -- although the lifestyles lack depth...

Sorta frightened what a 'reality show' about gamer nerds would look like.  Lots of pimples, chips & pretzels, rules lawyering, disputes over dice rolls, etc.  Oh man!!!

I did write a faked reality show screenplay about a gamer group who has a viral video about them, and then a producer picks the show up but recasts people out of the show & brings in some pro actors ... who now have to learn to roleplay, and (most) discover they like it.  Was a lot of fun.  Didn't sell it, it's in my back pocket of projects I'd like to film someday.
jioan
player, 4328 posts
Mon 3 Oct 2011
at 11:18
  • msg #139

Re: Books

Anyone else read Dark Tower?  I just finished the first and thought it was interesting but very strange.  I still have no idea where the story will go from here and there are 6 books left.
REkzkaRZ
player, 531 posts
/start rant
/end rant
Mon 19 Dec 2011
at 11:09
  • msg #140

Re: Books

Read a bunch of Dark Tower books except the first one.

It was like a sick & twisted obsession.  No book was particularly good, but they all had the potential to be good.  No doubt they'd make an awesome trio of movies or a TV show series.

I recommended them to a western novel fan.
Vixcis
player, 4767 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Tue 27 Dec 2011
at 04:07
  • msg #141

Re: Books

I live for the dark tower series!! It's so good, and it only get better!!
jioan
player, 4509 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2012
at 21:38
  • msg #142

Re: Books

I received the Mistborn trilogy as a Christmas gift.  I started the first book 6 days ago and was so engrossed that I used all of my free time to read them until I finished the final book earlier today.  I'm not sure what to think yet because I don't think my brain has yet come to terms with all of the information I've absorbed.  I can say, however, that I was continually intrigued by the characters, story, and world in a way that I haven't been for almost a year.
Heath
GM, 16018 posts
Don't click my picture!
This game needs an enema
Fri 6 Jan 2012
at 21:47
  • msg #143

Re: Books

Now I got hooked on these stinking Fire and Ice books...
jioan
player, 4511 posts
Fri 6 Jan 2012
at 21:55
  • msg #144

Re: Books

I know how you feel. :)
REkzkaRZ
player, 576 posts
/start rant
/end rant
Tue 10 Jan 2012
at 07:20
  • msg #145

Re: Books

Heath:
Now I got hooked on these stinking Fire and Ice books...

I'm on book 4, Storm of Crows.  My g/f is on #3.

Very dangerous if someone slips any plot stuff, so please don't!!!!

But I'm continuously intrigued at how the writing both mirrors Tolkien,
and yet it's so much more 'real' than Tolkien in a variety of ways
(many of which are bathroom & sex related).

Opinions?  Which book are you on?

Last comment -- Hunger Games movie coming closer.  I'm excited, likely to re-read series before I see the flick.  I really hope it's good -- topic could be very challenging for USA right now.
jioan
player, 4524 posts
Tue 10 Jan 2012
at 11:36
  • msg #146

Re: Books

REkzkaRZ:
Storm of Crows


Feast for Crows is book 4 and Storm of Swords is Book 3.

I read the books 3 years ago and have reread them all at least once since.  Currently ASoIaF is my favorite book series because despite its flaws it creates a complex gritty fantasy world to a degree of vividness unlike any other books I've read.  Now I just can't wait for Book 6!
This message was last edited by the player at 11:40, Tue 10 Jan 2012.
firelizardkimi
GM, 1885 posts
Gravity is a myth.
The Earth sucks.
Tue 10 Jan 2012
at 12:23
  • msg #147

Re: Books

I liked ASoIaF, but I kept getting lost in the complexities of the plot and the writing. I know exactly what you mean about GRRM being "Tolkien-esque" with his writing. It's very dense. Tolkien was never my favorite writer because of his writing style (though I'm re-reading LoTR, slowly, and learning to appreciate it more), and GRRM had that kind of effect on me after the first couple of books. Maybe I should go back and read these again... if I can find where all the books I have are hidden (though I don't own book 5 yet -- waiting for paperback).

ALSO, I am excited for the Hunger Games movie. I, too, hope it lives up to the books.
Heath
GM, 16027 posts
Don't click my picture!
This game needs an enema
Tue 10 Jan 2012
at 18:09
  • msg #148

Re: Books

I rarely find myself really enjoying fantasy writing anymore, though I loved it as a child.  Fire and Ice manages to get to me as an adult and intrigue me the most since the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant did in the 1980s.

What I do is listen to it on CD on my commute and read it simultaneously, essentially reading it twice at the same time.  Doing that, it is a more enriching experience and I don't get lost in the plot and characters.  The TV series also helps me put a face to the characters and a context to the environment.

I am waiting for book 3 on CD to show up at the library per my request.  I have started reading book 3, but I try to put another book or two in between a series book for variety.

I'm not a fan of Tolkien's writing style and don't see the similarity other than a broad landscape with many characters at play.  Martin focuses on the individual perspectives of characters and makes sure each chapter has significant action/drama/suspense based around the individual.  Tolkien had many parts that were yawners and focused more on the overall plot elements than the individuals.  The movies were better.
REkzkaRZ
player, 586 posts
/start rant
/end rant
Wed 11 Jan 2012
at 09:07
  • msg #149

Re: Books

Heath:
I'm not a fan of Tolkien's writing style and don't see the similarity other than a broad landscape with many characters at play.  Martin focuses on the individual perspectives of characters and makes sure each chapter has significant action/drama/suspense based around the individual.  Tolkien had many parts that were yawners and focused more on the overall plot elements than the individuals.  The movies were better.

No, the movies were not better -- but they were entertaining.    :D

The similarity is primarily --> large fantasy worlds, character driven, with dragons & other monsters, and lots o'books.
Kagura
player, 14507 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Wed 11 Jan 2012
at 12:08
  • msg #150

Re: Books

I'd have to disagree with you REkz. Having read the books and then watched the movies (I read each book just before seeing the movie related to it), I have to say, in terms of storytelling, the movies were exponentially better. Tolkien liked to talk for pages without actually SAYING anything. That was his style because he was a.) a history teacher and b.) telling his story as though it were a record of an actual event, but that led to him putting in a LOT of detail completely unnecessary to the telling of the tale.

Of course, that attention to detail DID allow Peter Jackson and his talented, talented cast and crew to create a beautiful world on the screen for us. And I'm really looking forward to The Hobbit when it comes out this winter... Riddles in the Dark though, if they screw that up, I will be SO SAD FOREVER.
jioan
player, 4534 posts
Wed 11 Jan 2012
at 20:15
  • msg #151

Re: Books

I'm going to have to agree with REks.  Maybe it's because I love reading about history, but I thought the books were much better than the movies at world building and feeling epic in scope without spending forever on the sieges of Helm's Deep and Minas Tirith.  From a story perspective I think the books told it better because they had more time to tell the tale, and I enjoyed most of the little details.  The only part I don't like in either version is the second half of Two Towers (with Sam, Frodo, and Gollum) which dragged on for WAY too long.  Also, the movies cut Tom Bombadil!
Heath
GM, 16031 posts
Don't click my picture!
This game needs an enema
Wed 11 Jan 2012
at 22:16
  • msg #152

Re: Books

From a storytelling perspective, Jackson trumps Tolkien hands down.  The key to storytelling is involving the audience with the character as things are happening in such a way that builds suspense and drama.  Tolkien failed miserably at this.  His world is rich and gave a great source for Jackson to use, but the "drama" (which is the essence of storytelling) belongs to Jackson without question.

I like reading history too, but I would never say it is a better "story" than most novels because that's not its purpose.  Tolkien's purpose strayed constantly from narrative to storytelling to description.  Worth reading, but not the best style.

This is where Stephen King excels.  He is a terrific storyteller, even when the subject of his stories aren't all that original or in depth, just the opposite of Tolkien (whom he admires, by the way, and who inspired his Gunslinger books).

So Tolkien is a good writer, but not really a great storyteller.
Kagura
player, 14508 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Wed 11 Jan 2012
at 22:28
  • msg #153

Re: Books

I was kind of sad about the cutting of Tom Bombadil, but I understand why they did it. I actually thought that the movie version of The Two Towers did the part with Sam, Frodo and Gollum exceptionally well, although I believe that much of that can be attributed to the skill of the actors involved... I mean, seriously? Andy Serkis is BRILLIANT. And Elijah Wood and Sean Astin are pretty good actors too. :D

I seriously just love everyone involved in the making of those films. They always make me so very very happy.

Also, I completely agree with Heath about Steven King being an excellent storyteller. Even his least scary books scare the living hell out of me...
Heath
GM, 16033 posts
Don't click my picture!
This game needs an enema
Wed 11 Jan 2012
at 22:53
  • msg #154

Re: Books

Bombadil was cut because, as interesting as he was as a character, he was not critical to the story.  A necessary cut.  I'm sure if they'd have rearranged the story to make him necessary, people would have also cried foul.

Remember that a story builds to a crescendo.  A movie also has waht is called "pacing" to give a build up and release of tension (most obvious in horror flicks).  When the story goes off on a tangent, that crescendo is broken, and so is the tension.
Vixcis
player, 4789 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Thu 12 Jan 2012
at 02:05
  • msg #155

Re: Books

I like Elijah Wood...he has the prettiest eyes...*sigh*
Kagura
player, 14513 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Thu 12 Jan 2012
at 02:09
  • msg #156

Re: Books

Right? Right? I love Elijah Wood's eyes. Also, Cilian Murphy. His eyes. So creepy. They're like GHOST eyes. But he's not in LotR, so I guess he doesn't count in this discussion, hm?
Vixcis
player, 4794 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Thu 12 Jan 2012
at 02:27
  • msg #157

Re: Books

He totaly could have been though as an elf...He scares me in a way that makes me quiver in my bodice. OOOO you know who else is hot girl...Alexander Ludwig...he's gonna be in the hunger games.
Kagura
player, 14517 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Thu 12 Jan 2012
at 03:12
  • msg #158

Re: Books

Yeah, he's kind of pretty... I liked him in Race to Witch Mountain... I don't really know what else I've seen him in though.
Vixcis
player, 4796 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Thu 12 Jan 2012
at 03:45
  • msg #159

Re: Books

I think he was in that umm Z..movie...umm Zathura!! (Yes I type as I'm thinking)...But yeah he's been in mostly kid stuff. He grew up fast though. Oh my yes *fans self*...wait was he in Zathura?...it might have been someone else...I think the kid that plays Peeta was in Zathura...
Kagura
player, 14518 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Thu 12 Jan 2012
at 04:20
  • msg #160

Re: Books

*shrugs* I don't know. I never saw Zathura.

Whatever. Hunger Games is bound to be awesome anyways.
Vixcis
player, 4801 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Thu 12 Jan 2012
at 10:14
  • msg #161

Re: Books

It better be as good as the book...I'm super excited for it!
praguepride
player, 4085 posts
Lord of Munster Cheese
Mon 30 Apr 2012
at 19:05
  • msg #162

Re: Books

Movie > book
jioan
player, 4883 posts
Fri 6 Jul 2012
at 23:37
  • msg #163

Re: Books

Book > Movie
ShootingStar
player, 376 posts
Know what I think?
No, neither do I...
Sun 8 Jul 2012
at 20:37
  • msg #164

Re: Books

Sock puppet show > book or movie
Heath
GM, 16495 posts
Don't click my picture!
This space is blank.
Fri 12 Oct 2012
at 22:16
  • msg #165

Re: Books

Who's looking forward to the Hobbit movie?
Kagura
player, 15362 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Fri 12 Oct 2012
at 22:43
  • msg #166

Re: Books

SO looking forward to that! Riddles in the Dark!!!

firelizardkimi and I are planning to go see it on the first plausible Tuesday after it comes out (because Tuesdays are $5 admission all day at our local theater). IT'S GOING TO BE TOTALLY AWESOME.
REkzkaRZ
player, 1201 posts
/start rant
/end rant
Thu 18 Oct 2012
at 06:33
  • msg #167

Re: Books

Uh, Peter Jackson & co?

And me too...

Yay, a squad of dwarves!
Grant
GM, 7027 posts
HOLY CRAP!!!
ITS SEAN CONNERY!!!
Thu 18 Oct 2012
at 13:24
  • msg #168

Re: Books

In reply to Heath (msg # 165):

I'm still not quite sure how they're supposed to separate one book with sparse action scenes into two different movies, especially if they're normal Jackson length, which is usually at least 3 hours, not counting bonus footage on the extended edition.
firelizardkimi
GM, 1995 posts
Gravity is a myth.
The Earth sucks.
Thu 18 Oct 2012
at 14:50
  • msg #169

Re: Books

It's three movies now, Grant. I don't know how they're going to do it, either, but apparently there's a lot of story they want to tell, so they are. Or they're just trying to get more money. Probably both. It kind of makes you wonder if they're going to pull in things from the LotR books that they didn't get to put in to those move.
Heath
GM, 16497 posts
Don't click my picture!
This space is blank.
Thu 18 Oct 2012
at 17:51
  • msg #170

Re: Books

My understanding is that the three movies will be not just the Hobbit but as many of the Silmarillion stories and other related tales that they can link together.  There is a lot of source material.  I just wonder how he'll link it all for pacing purposes.
praguepride
player, 4513 posts
Lord of Munster Cheese
Thu 18 Oct 2012
at 19:48
  • msg #171

Re: Books

Anybody happy that Bombadil was cut forgot about the hot elven lass at his side ;)


He was cut because he has nothing to do with anything, not really. If I recall Tom Bombadil was a throwaway character reference back to another of Tolkein's work. He was just a random character who served no real point but to be author self-gratification.

Movie > Book, hands down. As mentioned the books were as dry as textbooks and most of the action and drama happened off screen. The books were an excellent staging ground for real stories though.

It reminds me of WWII. The actual events and recollections are actually pretty dry, but the setting was so detailed and it could span a million stories without wearing itself TOO thin.

Just because you're the first or the source of a material doesn't make you the best at telling it. There are numerous examples where subsidiary works ended up being superior to the original, but the original does get big kudos for starting it all.


Some examples: Star Wars (the EU is much better then the movies, or at least the new ones), Star Trek, even the Game of Thrones series does several things better then the original book.

Don't mistake nostalgia with quality, and originiality/creativity with superiorirty. Sure the source has its place but any good source should be a living, maturing entity that can grow and expand as the world does around them.
Kagura
player, 15364 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Thu 18 Oct 2012
at 21:27
  • msg #172

Re: Books

To be fair, Tolkien WAS a scholar of history and linguistics, and wanted to tell the Middle Earth stories as though they were a real history... and everyone knows that history textbooks are some of the most boring things ever written...
King Scorpion
player, 6913 posts
The Scorpion King
Leader of the Anubis army
Sun 11 Nov 2012
at 06:08
  • msg #173

Re: Books

I used read each book then watch the movie for that book, but I dont haves the books anymore and havent watch the movies in so long even though I own them.
Heath
GM, 16550 posts
Don't click my picture!
This space is blank.
Sat 12 Jan 2013
at 00:23
  • msg #174

Re: Books

I'm glad Lincoln got so many Oscar nominations.  It was a great movie.  So was Argo.
Kagura
player, 15473 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Sat 12 Jan 2013
at 00:57
  • msg #175

Re: Books

I was not at all surprised at the nominations that The Hobbit got, although I was surprised by some of the ones it didn't (I expected noms in ALL of the technical/costume/sound categories). I was also not surprised by most of the noms Les Mis got, although I was a little surprised at the "Best Original Song" nomination it got.

For the rest... except for Brave and Wreck-it Ralph I didn't see any of the movies that got nominations. It'll be interesting to see which of the animated feature nominees takes that category though. By all accounts all of those films were fantastic.
Heath
GM, 16552 posts
Don't click my picture!
This space is blank.
Sat 12 Jan 2013
at 01:08
  • msg #176

Re: Books

Looking at the nominee list...

Lincoln, Argo and Les Mis are definitely worth seeing.  You're right -- it is strange that Les Mis got an original song nod since all the songs are from the musical.

I have not seen the Hobbit yet.  I was hoping Dark Knight would get something.  Skyfall also deserved more nominations.

I've seen all the animated ones except Frankenweenie.  I liked Paranorman, though my wife didn't, and I thought Pirates was pretty bad.

I didn't really care for Mirror Mirror or Snow White.  Kids liked Mirror Mirror and never got to caring much for the characters in Snow White, despite the action.

I think Prometheus should take the Visual Effects category.  I really liked that movie, especially going along with the Alien mythology.  Avengers was also good and probably deserves something.

I haven't seen the rest though...
Kagura
player, 15475 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Sat 12 Jan 2013
at 02:30
  • msg #177

Re: Books

Oh yeah, almost all the critics were saying that DKR and/or Avengers were snubbed with not getting a Best Picture nod.

Likewise a handful of directors including Joss Whedon (Avengers), Katheryn Bigelow (Zero Dark Thirty) and Tom Hooper (Les Mis) were all expected to receive a nomination, but didn't, losing out to apparent long-shots.

I was reading some of the articles yesterday when the noms came out, which is where I learned all of these things. :D
Xl2000
player, 87 posts
Sun 13 Jan 2013
at 13:43
  • msg #178

Re: Books

The Hobbit was pretty good, but significant changes to the story plot can be a big turnoff for book lovers.
Kagura
player, 15478 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Sun 13 Jan 2013
at 20:31
  • msg #179

Re: Books

The story wasn't changed that significantly, and (in my personal opinion), the changes they did make were very much to the benefit of the telling. Also, many of the "changes" were actually just material from the Silmarillion that they pulled in.
Xl2000
player, 115 posts
:} Hehe, he........humans
Mon 22 Apr 2013
at 04:51
  • msg #180

Re: Books

jioan
player, 4949 posts
Thu 11 Jul 2013
at 16:47
  • msg #181

Re: Books

That first one with the spoon is hilarious!

And surprisingly a little frightening...
Heath
GM, 16644 posts
Don't click my picture!
This space is blank.
Thu 11 Jul 2013
at 19:56
  • msg #182

Re: Books

I guess some people will fork you over, and some just want to spoon you.
Vixcis
player, 5132 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Thu 18 Jul 2013
at 01:38
  • msg #183

Re: Books

I enjoy a good forking with some spooning afterwards...
Heath
GM, 16649 posts
Don't click my picture!
This space is blank.
Fri 19 Jul 2013
at 16:50
  • msg #184

Re: Books

I was pleasantly surprised with Pacific Rim.  The story is straightforward (no surprises), the characters are fun but not too memorable, and it is obviously not very realistic.  But it kept me entertained the entire time with special effects (and 3D effects) like I've not seen before and comedic stunts.

A giant robot swinging a large ship like a sword in the middle of Hong Kong--priceless.
Kagura
player, 15654 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Fri 19 Jul 2013
at 21:32
  • msg #185

Re: Books

I loved that movie. It was perfect because it didn't take itself seriously while simultaneously every kaiju and giant robot trope they could squeeze in. All my friends kept comparing it to Eva, but personally I felt it was more like G Gundam meets Godzilla.

It was just so much FUN!
Heath
GM, 16662 posts
Don't click my picture!
This space is blank.
Fri 19 Jul 2013
at 22:36
  • msg #186

Re: Books

It's a perfect popcorn movie, and you don't get bored.  That's all I ask these days.

Some movies take themselves too seriously, and their shining moments can be dimmed by the less interesting ones.  (Take Silver Linings, for example.)
Heath
GM, 16663 posts
Don't click my picture!
This space is blank.
Fri 19 Jul 2013
at 22:37
  • msg #187

Re: Books

In reply to Kagura (msg # 185):

Also, I have to admit that I was critical of the Japanese translations.  I think the English lines were written first, and the closest proximity in Japanese was provided, rather than the opposite.  You may have noticed that they forgot to translate "I love you" ("ai shite-imasu") toward the end of the movie.
Kagura
player, 15656 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Sat 20 Jul 2013
at 00:57
  • msg #188

Re: Books

They didn't forget. The line was actually "Sensei, aishitemasu." and the lack of translation was deliberate.

As for the translations... what I could pick out I actually thought was very nicely done. There were a few places where I might have used a different word or phrasing, but overall they seemed relatively accurate, regardless of the direction they were translated in.
Heath
GM, 16664 posts
Don't click my picture!
This space is blank.
Mon 22 Jul 2013
at 15:25
  • msg #189

Re: Books

In reply to Kagura (msg # 188):

"Forgot" or "deliberate," it wasn't there.  I didn't mind, but I'm sure most people might have liked a translation.  Having worked as a Japanese translator/interpretor for many years in the past, I'm a bit more nitpicky than most, I suppose.  But I did get the impression it was translated from English to Japanese, rather than the reverse.
Kagura
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Mon 22 Jul 2013
at 21:45
  • msg #190

Re: Books

In terms of translation and subtitles, "forgot" versus "deliberate" is a HUGE difference though. When a translation is deliberately left out, it is done to make a point or underscore the emotion of a scene in a way that having a translation wouldn't or couldn't.

In the case of that climactic scene in Pacific Rim, I think the lack of a translation for Mako's line was so that you focus more on the emotion than the words. Think about it. Instead of looking at a subtitle as Mako delivers her heartbreaking farewell to the man who was more than a father for her since she was a little girl, the audience is looking at HER, and seeing the depths of the loss. The meaning of the words is largely irrelevant (although it provides a nice bilingual bonus for those of us who do speak the language, and adds additional emotional depth to the scene).

As for the rest... yeah, I think you're nitpicking JUST a bit. But that's okay, you do that all the time anyways. :D

I recall a time when, while working as a translation checker for a fansub group, there was a scene in an anime series that was basically a piece of Hamlet's "to be or not to be" monologue. The translator (not being familiar with Shakespeare because of his age) had translated it straight, and it didn't make sense that way, so when it came to me, I just used the actual monologue. It wasn't the same words, but the intent was the same. I feel like the very few subtitled lines in Pacific Rim were done in a similar vein - they knew what they intended to say, and just wrote the words (either Japanese or English) that matched the intent.
Heath
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Mon 22 Jul 2013
at 21:58
  • msg #191

Re: Books

In reply to Kagura (msg # 190):

"Forgot" versus "deliberate," though, is only as effective as it's perceived by the viewer.  So maybe their point got across to some of the audience, but maybe not others.  If not everyone gets it, I'd say that's a net loss, regardless of the creator's intent.

For example, if I "deliberately" meant the paragraph above to be the most profound thing ever written because I left out something that I "think" you should all get, it doesn't make much difference if you don't get it, feel it, or think it's all that deep.

In other words, deliberately leaving out a foreign translation carries a risk of alienating the viewer.  They took the risk, but I think the point was lost on most people, who would have benefited from knowing that she was telling him that she loves him rather than that she was just saying something emotional to him.

Also, I don't think equating Shakespeare's English (which is well known among the Japanese anyway, and who probably have a basic understanding of the phrase and context) is quite the same as a summer scifi flick that could use all the help it can get in drawing the reader in.  :)

EDIT: I suppose the clincher is when my teenaged son has to lean across and ask what she said in Japanese, and I have to interrupt the movie to translate for him.  That tells me people want to know what she said.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:02, Mon 22 July 2013.
Heath
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Mon 22 Jul 2013
at 22:01
  • msg #192

Re: Books

And the nitpicky thing really is just a reflex.  When you understand both the words being spoken and the words that are simultaneously being projected in translation, and you see that they don't totally match (or that there is a better translation), it kind of detracts from the movie.  But I'm sure that's the vast minority of viewers on that point.  I sort of preferred the Japanese, especially his initial "chigau-tte" to surprise her that he knew Japanese.  That was not well translated because it took too many words in English.
Kagura
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Tue 23 Jul 2013
at 02:05
  • msg #193

Re: Books

Yeah, that one was one of the few lines that I could understand on my own, and I agree, that could have been translated better.

Pretty much the rest of the Japanese was either spoken so quickly or spoken in non-Japanese accents which distorted the words enough that I was perfectly happy to stick with the on-screen translations, assuming them to be at least as good as a top tier fan sub... which is pretty good.
FourLegged
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Sun 1 Sep 2013
at 09:39
  • msg #194

Re: Books

I have not read any decent hard science fiction in a while and am looking to get back into it.  Does anyone have recommendations?

I am very fond of Asimov, Niven, Clarke, (when he wrote his own stuff,) Bradbury, Anderson, and Bova.
Kagura
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Sun 1 Sep 2013
at 13:38
  • msg #195

Re: Books

Have you read any of the Bolo books by Keith Laumer? I have it on good authority that those are quite good.

Also, anything by Anne McCaffery. The Pern books (ignore the ones by her son though), the Talent series and the Acorna books (with Elizabeth Ann Scarborough) are all very good... although they kind of drift off of "hard" science fiction and somewhat into the realm of fantasy as well (Pern has bio-engineered dragons, Talent is about psychic powers and Acorna is about a girl from a race of aliens which look like anthropomorphic unicorns). Still, they're all quite good.
FourLegged
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Mon 2 Sep 2013
at 02:24
  • msg #196

Re: Books

I tried the Pern books a while back and couldn't get into Dragonriders.

I will check into the Bolo books.  Thanks!
Kagura
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Mon 2 Sep 2013
at 02:35
  • msg #197

Re: Books

Yeah, I have trouble getting into most of the Pern books as well. I much prefer the Talent series.
Heath
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Tue 3 Sep 2013
at 16:32
  • msg #198

Re: Books

For Hard SF, Peter F. Hamilton's "Night's Dawn Trilogy" (which is also a lot of space opera too).  Vernor Vinge's work is even more "hard" if you will, and particularly his Zones of Thought series (Fire Upon the Deep and Deepness in the Sky) are pretty good.  The first one won the Hugo, as I recall.

The Axis of Time series by John Birmingham is pretty good.  There, a terrible naval accident with a scientific experimental ship about 10-15 years from now sends much of the world's naval fleet back to World War II, and it goes into the effects of modern technology and military advancements, as well as cultural differences such as racism, thus creating a whole new timeline.
Yoss
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Wed 2 Oct 2013
at 21:08
  • msg #199

Re: Books

What do you all think of "The Name of the Wind" by Patrick Rothfus?
Kagura
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Wed 2 Oct 2013
at 21:12
  • msg #200

Re: Books

Love it, love it, love it. I can't wait for the third book in that trilogy to come out. I want to know the answers to EVERYTHING.
Yoss
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Wed 2 Oct 2013
at 22:04
  • msg #201

Re: Books

Yeah, I really liked it.  The second one wasn't as good though.  I'm worried that it's going downhill.
Kagura
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Thu 3 Oct 2013
at 00:44
  • msg #202

Re: Books

I WANT TO KNOW HOW HE MET BAST. That's really the main thing I care about. The rest is details.
Yoss
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Thu 3 Oct 2013
at 23:58
  • msg #203

Re: Books

Yes, I'm expecting the story will eventually merge into the "present" and carry on from there, but maybe not.
Kagura
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Fri 4 Oct 2013
at 00:13
  • msg #204

Re: Books

There's only going to be one more book. I assume it will come up to the present and then end, since it's basically Kvothe telling his story to the Chronicler (haha, I loved how he just made up a legend about the Chronicler because he was pissed off) with little interludes in the present. Once the story is done, there will probably be some sort of parting of the ways, although whether it will be in the fashion Bast wants or not is another question entirely, but then the last book will end with a final silence of some sort.

One thing I really like, stylistically, about the books is how each one begins and end with "A silence of three parts". It really does a nice job of setting the mood and closing each segment of the story.

ARGH!!! When is the last book coming out?!?!? It cannot be soon enough!!!!
Yoss
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Fri 4 Oct 2013
at 00:47
  • msg #205

Re: Books

Next summer I think.  I am skeptical that the ending of the trilogy will satisfy my desire to know the story; I am more interested in the innkeeper than the legend.
Kagura
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Fri 4 Oct 2013
at 01:10
  • msg #206

Re: Books

I'm interested in both. I want to know why the legend became the innkeeper almost as much as I want to know what Bast hopes to accomplish by turning the innkeeper back into the legend.
Yoss
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Fri 4 Oct 2013
at 19:01
  • msg #207

Re: Books

I also dislike that paperback is not available until hardback has been out for a while.  I would never buy hardback.
Kagura
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Fri 4 Oct 2013
at 21:43
  • msg #208

Re: Books

I've been buying them in eBook format so I can read them at work during lunch, and on the bus to and from work. I go through more books that way.

I -usually- don't buy hardcover (when I buy hard copy books), so I totally feel your pain about that though. The timeframe is generally 6-12 months. I track releases by my favorite authors so that I can buy them as soon as the paperbacks are available. This tends to be frustrating for me only for Brandon Sanderson though... all my other current favorite authors release direct to paperback.
Yoss
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Mon 7 Oct 2013
at 19:09
  • msg #209

Re: Books

Does Rothfus go straight to paperback?
Kagura
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Mon 7 Oct 2013
at 20:32
  • msg #210

Re: Books

I don't know... I bought his books in eBook format. I assume yes because B&N's website doesn't list a price for a hardcover version, just paperback and eBook.
FourLegged
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Sat 26 Oct 2013
at 06:15
  • msg #211

Re: Books

I am surprised that King wrote a sequel to The Shining.
Kagura
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Sat 26 Oct 2013
at 15:51
  • msg #212

Re: Books

Wait, he did what? Oh, you know, I may have seen that in the bookstore the other day...
Yoss
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Mon 28 Oct 2013
at 17:45
  • msg #213

Re: Books

I didn't know there are still bookstores out there.
firelizardkimi
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Mon 28 Oct 2013
at 17:53
  • msg #214

Re: Books

Of course there are. Though, I admit, they're becoming rarer and rarer. I hope they don't go away completely. I really like the feel of turning pages and the way the paper and ink smells when you're reading a book.
Yoss
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Mon 28 Oct 2013
at 17:54
  • msg #215

Re: Books

I think the only way they'll come back is if internet sales are forced to pay the same taxes as brick & mortar stores.  Otherwise, internet will always be cheaper.
Kagura
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Mon 28 Oct 2013
at 21:57
  • msg #216

Re: Books

There's just something about going to a bookstore and browsing though. You can't really do that on the bookstore websites. Especially not Barnes and Noble's website. They have the WORST interface for just browsing a genre.
FourLegged
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Sun 3 Nov 2013
at 00:24
  • msg #217

Re: Books

Not just a bookstore, a quality used bookstore.
Heath
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 20:05
  • msg #218

Re: Books

Anyone else watch "Ender's Game" this weekend? I thought they good job of presenting the battle training and the moral ambiguities, and the acting was top notch.  My main complaint was that it was only 2 hours long, so the training seemed more rushed and some cool battle sequences had to be omitted.  There were only about 3 battle training scenes, but the book had probably 10 or 15, each with unique strategies.
Yoss
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 20:36
  • msg #219

Re: Books

In reply to Heath (msg # 218):

I forgot that was coming out!  I'll see it on Netflix later.
Heath
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 21:02
  • msg #220

Re: Books

No, you should see it at the theater.  The special effects are much more powerful on the big screen, especially the zero G maneuvering and the spaceship battles.
Yoss
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 21:20
  • msg #221

Re: Books

Yes, but we choose not to go to the "big screen" for almost any movie.  I can't even remember the last one we went to.  Lots of money saved with no big personal loss.
Kagura
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 22:30
  • msg #222

Re: Books

I plan to go see it, despite all the moral posing going on in the communities I'm a part of. Honestly people just cannot make themselves see the bigger picture sometimes. Ender's Game was a fantastic story, and I'm very interested to see how they chose to envision it for the big screen.

… although honestly the chances that I'll get to go see it this month are small, so unless it's still playing at the beginning of December, I'll have to wait for it to come out on DVD.
Heath
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 22:39
  • msg #223

Re: Books

Also, most of the things they say about him aren't even accurate anyway.  It's just pure character assassination.  I've talked with him on several occasions, and he's about the nicest, most understanding guy you could ever meet, with any controversial stuff about him being taken way out of context.  Haters will always hate him, of course.

Yoss, I don't know about where you live, but we have Tuesday discount nights at the regular theater here, for about $5.  It's not really advertised, but you can check prices on Fandango.  Century Theaters also has "early bird" prices which are typically about $5 a pop.

Both Ender's Game and Gravity are worth watching at the theater, and Gravity definitely deserves a 3D viewing.
Yoss
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 22:39
  • msg #224

Re: Books

Actually, EG is one movie I'm tempted to box office for, just to make my counter-statement to all the stupid hoopla about the author's personal beliefs.  Good art is good art, regardless of who makes it.  (And Ender's Game, the book, is good art.)
Heath
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 22:41
  • msg #225

Re: Books

Ender's Game was required reading at many military academies.  Forbes also had an article showing how the leadership of Ender transfers to leadership in business.
Yoss
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 22:43
  • msg #226

Re: Books

Exactly.  How is the author's opinion about (for example) gay marriage relevant?
Heath
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 22:48
  • msg #227

Re: Books

It's not.

And really, his expressed opinion was not so much against gay marriage as it was against activist judges who overrule a democratic vote of the people, and the danger this brings to our society and freedoms.  He was concerned that this will just make the conservatives revolt against the government that failed to recognize their valid elections, and will bring strife unlike anything we've seen since right before the Civil War.

Remember that his background is theater, and works with homosexuals all the time and counts them as some of his closest friends.  There's not a homophobic bone in his body.
Kagura
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 23:30
  • msg #228

Re: Books

Wait, Heath, you've met Orson Scott Card? As much as I'm inclined to dislike the man for his cited views (there are some pretty nasty specifically anti-gay quotes from him floating around out there, regardless of whether he has friends who are so inclined or not), I'm kinda jealous.

My personal opinion on the whole "boycott the movie because it will hurt OSC's bottom line a little bit and send a message" is basically this: OSC is a writer. He wrote a story and sold the rights to a studio. The studio then proceeded to hire writers, producers, camera people, lighting and sound specialists, actors, and so on and so forth to create the movie-based-on-the-book known as "Ender's Game". By boycotting the movie you are hurting all of those people just as much or perhaps even MORE than you are hurting the original author of the story. There are hundreds, if not THOUSANDS of people involved in the making of a movie, and the original story's author's views are not necessarily shared by even one of those people. Anyone who chooses to boycott a movie because they disagree with something that has NOTHING to do with the actual story in question is, to put it bluntly, an absolute idiot.

Basically, while I completely disagree with the man's stated views on gay marriage, etc., I recognize that this and that have no relation whatsoever, and would totally go see the movie if I though I was going to have the time.
Heath
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 23:44
  • msg #229

Re: Books

In reply to Kagura (msg # 228):

First, most likely the quotes are not accurate.  He said as much on his website.

Second, anyone who follows him knows that he has strongly criticized for years writers who make cliches out of homosexuals or otherwise treat them with disrespect in their productions.  He particularly called out Mama Mia for creating such a stereotype instead of a multilayered character.

Third, he has primarily said that people who marry under homosexual marriage laws should not be treated as enemies but should be treated socially, respectfully, and as friends.  He merely pointed out that the homosexual community should also treat those with traditional moral values with respect and be friends and social with them, rather than forcing others to accept their nontraditional moral beliefs or be shunned.  (Which, ironically, is exactly what is happening to him now.)

Yes, I've met him on more than one occasion.  I have autographed books for almost all of his books until about 1998.  Haven't seen him since then, but my wife met him once about 10 years ago.
Yoss
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 23:47
  • msg #230

Re: Books

Heath:
Third, he has primarily said that people who marry under homosexual marriage laws should not be treated as enemies but should be treated socially, respectfully, and as friends.  He merely pointed out that the homosexual community should also treat those with traditional moral values with respect and be friends and social with them, rather than forcing others to accept their nontraditional moral beliefs or be shunned.  (Which, ironically, is exactly what is happening to him now.)

I agree with most of that.  However, I have found the homosexual community to be rather aggressive and intolerant, despite their words asking for the opposite to be done to them.
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:48, Mon 04 Nov 2013.
Heath
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Mon 4 Nov 2013
at 23:49
  • msg #231

Re: Books

I agree.  There is a place at the table for both divergent views:  traditional morality and non-traditional sexuality.  Tolerance, acceptance, and promotion are three different things that don't require hate speech to work hand in hand.
Kagura
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Tue 5 Nov 2013
at 00:06
  • msg #232

Re: Books

Heath:
First, most likely the quotes are not accurate.  He said as much on his website.


I'll take that as it is. Obviously I haven't gone to any particular effort to locate the quote sources, as I didn't really care that much one way or the other. I'm sad to say that many of my close friends did decide to boycott the movie based on the activist versions of the story, but, well, that's their choice, I suppose. Can't say whether it's a loss or not though, having not seen the movie yet. :D

I too agree that there is room for multiple points of view in the whole conversation and, while I will tend to rail a bit about politicians attempting to enforce theirs as law, I don't generally have an issue with people who don't share mine. Isn't that what "tolerance" is all about, anyways?
Heath
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Tue 5 Nov 2013
at 00:24
  • msg #233

Re: Books

Yes, and there are three types of laws on the books:  Prohibition, Tolerance, and Promotion.

Prohibition is things we prohibit under the law and punish for its violation, such as rape and incest.

Tolerance is an anti-discriminatory law, such as those that protect gender identity and don't criminalize adultery.  Homosexual behavior falls under here.

Promotion is something that gets special status because our society thinks it has special value that should be promoted.  Marriage has always been a law of promotion because its goal has been to (1) encourage procreation (i.e., the creation of future taxpayers), (2) the raising of children with both a mother and a father and prevent broken homes, and (3) the promotion of traditional family/moral values and marriage itself.

So when people are voting for homosexual marriage, they are voting not for tolerance but for our society to promote that status as a special, highly desirable status.  However, since it cannot meet the three criteria, the argument has been that limiting the special promotional status of marriage to a man and woman violates the law requiring tolerance.  That is really where the debate is at because if it does violate that law, the only alternatives would be to redefine "marriage" to include same sex genders or abolish the recognition of marriage.  The former also raises the question of other non-traditional "marriages" (polygamy, communal, and incestuous, for example).  So the whole thing gets problematic in practice.  I think that's why the Supreme Court essentially punted the issue.
Kagura
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Tue 5 Nov 2013
at 01:05
  • msg #234

Re: Books

Aaanndd… we've moved from topic-appropriate conversation into other.

I will say that I've never understood why people are so obsessed with your points 2 and 3. I knew (and know) plenty of kids my age while growing up with single-parent or same-sex parent households who turned out just fine. Also, "traditional" values (family, societal, etc.) have been headed out for awhile with the evolution of a global culture (thank you internet).

Actually, your mentioned point 1 confuses me as well because procreation has NOT been an issue in a very long time. At least since the industrial revolution, and definitely since post-WWII. According to a Child Welfare Agency study from 2011, at the time of the study there were around 400,500 children in foster care with about 10,000 more children entering the system in that year than exiting. You can check it out here: https://www.childwelfare.gov/p...actsheets/foster.cfm

Basically, I don't understand why general thinking surrounding "promotion" hasn't bothered to read the writing on the wall and learn to move with the times. The world has changed, and continues changing constantly. There's no way to stop it. The best way is to just go with the flow and learn to be flexible, IMO.
Heath
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Tue 5 Nov 2013
at 01:27
  • msg #235

Re: Books

Except that those who believe in morality typically do not believe that morality is subjective.

Procreation is not an "issue."  Procreation is a fact.  The idea of marriage has been to stimulate a situation where children are not brought up in a broken home (i.e., so they can grow up to be good taxpayers and not a drain on society).  Statistically, those from broken homes earn less, become more of a drain on society, and pay fewer taxes.  So procreation without the responsibility of raising them in a household with a mother and a father is the issue.  It is not saying anything less is bad per se, but simply that the ideal is what is "promoted" and "encouraged."

Your point of foster care sort of proves the point.  Those are children who did not come from intact families.  I think you are reading each point separately instead of thinking them as a consolidated whole, inseparable.  Procreation alone is not the goal, but it is one laudable factor to promote monogamy through marriage, but then what happens after procreation leads into the need for the other factors.  Defining marriage promotes those ideals.

Homosexual marriage cannot meet the first factor (by laws of nature, not man), which means the second two factors become irrelevant.

Anyway, my point is not to dredge up the issues but to shine a light on the conflict and Pandora's box that is being opened.

We don't need to continue this discussion.  I'm just pointing out that these are the traditional points, which create a valid point of view that should be 'tolerated.'  Your last statement seems to indicate that they should abandon their beliefs, morality, and religion rather than that the pro homosexual marriage crowd should tolerate their beliefs.  My point is that the beliefs of both sides should be examined and tolerated.
Kagura
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Tue 5 Nov 2013
at 01:52
  • msg #236

Re: Books

No, I agree, both sides need to show more tolerance towards each other. That's what I was getting at with my statement.

But yeah, we should stop… or move to a different thread. :D
Heath
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Tue 5 Nov 2013
at 17:36
  • msg #237

Movie Reviews

My movie reviews of movies I've seen this last month:

Gravity:  Must see at the theaters in 3D.  A fun, exciting movie that keeps you on the edge of your seat and doesn't go into unnecessary backstory.

Ender's Game:  Another must see at the theater.  It takes the best of the action from the book and manages to deal respectfully with the moral complexities of the military's actions.

Carrie:  A respectable remake of a classic.  I liked it better than the Sissy Spacek version.

Escape Plan:  A passable action movie with some fun twists and turns.  If you grew up with Stallone and Arnold, it's hard to pass up a movie with them together.  But the characters are not very deep...suprisingly!  :)

Bad Grandpa:  Vulgar and disturbing on many levels, but I laughed all the way through.  If you liked Borat, you'd like it.  If they would have cut about 10 minutes of vulgarity out of the movie, I'd almost recommend it.

Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs 2: A disappointing follow up to a genuinely good kid flick; a few laughs and a lot of puns.

Insidious 2: Great follow up to the first film, and the storyline is seamless, making it seem like the two movies were supposed to be made together.  Some good scary moments, and the scene in the killer's house is one of the most disturbingly creepy I've seen in awhile.  See it, but only after you've seen the first.
Kagura
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Tue 5 Nov 2013
at 23:30
  • msg #238

Re: Movie Reviews

I really wanted to see The 5th Estate. Not only is the source material interesting (WikiLeaks and the controversy surrounding it), but it's got some really fantastic actors in it. Namely Benedict Cumberbatch and Peter Capaldi. The rest of them too, I'm sure, just Cumberbatch and Capaldi are the ones that I actually know anything about.

I refuse to see the Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs movies because that was my absolute FAVORITE book as a kid, and I can't stand that they made it into a movie only loosely based on the book. I mean, yeah, the book itself is only about 15 pages long with perhaps 40 sentences in the whole book, but still.

I'm looking forward to The Hunger Games: Catching Fire even though, having read the books, I know my heart will be ripped, beating and bloody, from my chest. Not because the adaptation will be poor, no. But because that's the kind of stories the Hunger Games books ARE. Also looking forward to The Hobbit Part 2. Because I am a geek, and that's how I roll.
Yoss
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Tue 5 Nov 2013
at 23:39
  • msg #239

Re: Movie Reviews

I'm sad to say I haven't even seen Hobbit Part I yet.
Heath
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Tue 5 Nov 2013
at 23:41
  • msg #240

Re: Movie Reviews

The Hobbit was a good movie, and had some good 3D effects.  It was a bit more light hearted than the Lord of the Rings, but still put out some good action, albeit a little less realistic action.  Part II looks to be better because that's where all the iconic parts from the book really come into play, up through the destruction of Smaug.
Kagura
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Tue 5 Nov 2013
at 23:59
  • msg #241

Re: Movie Reviews

Except for Riddles in the Dark which made it into the first movie.

Can I just say how much I absolutely ADORE Andy Serkis and admire his truly ridiculous amounts of talent? It's not every actor who would be able to wear a MoCap suit, double themselves over, and basically become what is possibly the least-humanoid of all the humanoid characters in the LotR universe.
Yoss
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Wed 6 Nov 2013
at 00:15
  • msg #242

Re: Movie Reviews

I wonder if it's on Netflix yet.
Kagura
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Wed 6 Nov 2013
at 00:53
  • msg #243

Re: Movie Reviews

Hmm… well, it only came out last November, so probably not.
Yoss
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Wed 6 Nov 2013
at 00:54
  • msg #244

Re: Movie Reviews

I thought it only takes about a year.
Kagura
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Wed 6 Nov 2013
at 00:58
  • msg #245

Re: Movie Reviews

Depends on the show/movie. I think more popular stuff tends to take longer for no particular discernible reason. You can always check though.
Yoss
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Wed 6 Nov 2013
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  • msg #246

Re: Movie Reviews

Will do.
Heath
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Wed 6 Nov 2013
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  • msg #247

Re: Movie Reviews

In reply to Yoss (msg # 244):

Currently, HBO has the license to it, so it's not on Netflix.  HBO keeps playing it over and over.
LuLu Prayer
player, 291 posts
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Thu 7 Nov 2013
at 12:58
  • msg #248

Re: Movie Reviews

In reply to Yoss (msg # 242):

It isn't on netflix, though I wish it was, seeing as netflix is the only thing I can use to my advantage to watch movies, I'm sorry to say that the only movies I can really review at current are Superhero, Avengers, and Classics movies, Gotta love kids gotta love the kids' grandma
Heath
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Thu 7 Nov 2013
at 16:28
  • msg #249

Re: Movie Reviews

Amazon prime is a good alternative to Netflix.  In addition to the free movies similar to Netflix, you can rent movies like On Demand or Pay Per View.  I think you also get free Amazon shipping as a benefit...or something like that.
LuLu Prayer
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Thu 7 Nov 2013
at 16:42
  • msg #250

Re: Movie Reviews

Only problem is we don't have money for that, only reason we have netflix is 'cause we've got an uncle who thinks that's more charitable than helping in paying electricity or rent, because to him entertainment needs should be met faster than logical needs, man do I love my life
Heath
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Thu 7 Nov 2013
at 17:10
  • msg #251

Re: Movie Reviews

I think Amazon is the same base price as Netflix, maybe even a buck cheaper, but you pay it in one yearly sum of about $50 or whatever it is.  I like it that if I search for a movie and it's not for free, I still find it on my search and have the option of renting it for $1-$4.  You pay a buck more for HD, I think, but it's actually a bit cheaper than pay per view, I think, and better quality than Comcast.
LuLu Prayer
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Thu 7 Nov 2013
at 17:15
  • msg #252

Re: Movie Reviews

I can try to get to it, when I get my next pay check, or maybe I'll ask my stupid uncle
Yoss
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Thu 7 Nov 2013
at 18:02
  • msg #253

Re: Movie Reviews

In reply to LuLu Prayer (msg # 252):

Biting the feeding hand?
Just a girl passing through
player, 600 posts
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Sat 9 Nov 2013
at 09:00
  • msg #254

Re: Movie Reviews

It would be one thing if he fed, he doesn't...   he thinks of us as tailor trash and will only pay for the theoretical materialism 'fish' rather than 'teach us how to fish' so to speak.  I'm pretty sure there is a drama on that, but I'm not finding it...
FourLegged
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Sun 10 Nov 2013
at 21:36
  • msg #255

Re: Movie Reviews

Mutual contempt.  Isn't family grand?
LuLu Prayer
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Mon 11 Nov 2013
at 00:44
  • msg #256

Re: Movie Reviews

Ah-- It's just so absolutely lovely!
Kagura
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Sat 16 Nov 2013
at 20:10
  • msg #257

Re: Movie Reviews

You know what an awesome movie is? Thor 2: The Dark World. Here is why:

"Darcy?"
"Jane!"
"Dr. Selvig."
"Myumyu!"

Also - Loki snarks with Thor, and Loki snarks at everyone while also being awesome.

Really is there any other reason to see a Marvel movie except to watch Loki (Tom Hiddleston… mmm… I want to give the man a hug)?
LuLu Prayer
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Sat 16 Nov 2013
at 20:54
  • msg #258

Re: Movie Reviews

I sense Kagura likes Tom Hiddleston far too much
Kagura
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Sat 16 Nov 2013
at 21:52
  • msg #259

Re: Movie Reviews

You cannot like Tom Hiddleston "too much". That's just impossible.
LuLu Prayer
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Sun 17 Nov 2013
at 04:47
  • msg #260

Re: Movie Reviews

Really 'cause it sure seems like it
Yoss
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Mon 18 Nov 2013
at 19:22
  • msg #261

Re: Movie Reviews

I saw the first Thor.  It was entertaining, though not particularly enlightening.  Of course, it's "just" a comic book movie, so one shouldn't expect too much.  I suppose I'd be willing to try the sequel.
Kagura
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Mon 18 Nov 2013
at 22:38
  • msg #262

Re: Movie Reviews

The first Thor had no real plot, and the only character development belonged to the villain (Loki)… whereas the protagonist was basically like "Oh I'm a huge, shallow, jerkass who loves to party and fight all day and this is the entirety of my characterization." Then when he got booted to Earth for… being a huge, shallow, jerkass who loved to party and fight all day, he was like "Oooh, I got kicked out of my realm. I'm not going to to ANYTHING to change who I am." Then he meets Jane and suddenly it's like "I'm now a better person because I spent two days with this scientist chick and her crazy friends and I think I'm in love with the scientist chick." And then the movie ended after a big, flashy, typical comic book movie fight.

They did better with the second one because somewhere between the end of the first one and the beginning of this one, Thor was given an actual personality to go right along with Loki's snarkery. Personally, I blame Thor's association with a certain genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist in a suit of hi-tech armor.
Yoss
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Mon 18 Nov 2013
at 23:19
  • msg #263

Re: Movie Reviews

A sequel better than the original?  That's rare.
Kagura
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Tue 19 Nov 2013
at 23:05
  • msg #264

Re: Movie Reviews

I know, right? And yet they did it.

Mind you, it's only a LITTLE better. And IMHO Loki -still- steals the movie (but what else would you expect from the self-proclaimed God of Mischief with a penchant for taking things that aren't his?), but yeah, this one felt marginally more cohesive than the previous one. The cohesiveness was assisted by Fun with Portals.
firelizardkimi
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Wed 20 Nov 2013
at 16:55
  • msg #265

Re: Movie Reviews

Kagura just has a thing for trickster-types.
Kagura
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Wed 20 Nov 2013
at 22:08
  • msg #266

Re: Movie Reviews

I do. I freely admit this. I just feel sorry for them, you know? They're so misunderstood...
Athena
player, 1061 posts
Wed 20 Nov 2013
at 22:18
  • msg #267

Re: Movie Reviews

Am I horrible for having decided that I would never watch Thor on the principle of just so not my type??
Heath
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Wed 20 Nov 2013
at 22:22
  • msg #268

Re: Movie Reviews

Yes.  Yes, you are horrible.  :)

I tend to watch movies based on the director.  I like Kenneth Branagh, who directed the first Thor, though it wasn't his finest movie.  His version of Hamlet is the best I've ever seen, and Dead Again is a favorite of mine.
Kagura
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Wed 20 Nov 2013
at 22:36
  • msg #269

Re: Movie Reviews

I don't care about directors. I look for three things: 1. Enjoyable plot. 2. Likable characters. 3. ACTION!!!! If there isn't at least one of those then I probably didn't even bother to go see the movie. If there's one, then I probably liked it, but had severe misgivings about most of it. If there are two, then I likely had a lot of fun. If all three were present, then it was the best damn movie of the century until the next one.
Heath
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Wed 20 Nov 2013
at 22:54
  • msg #270

Re: Movie Reviews

The director is the one who makes those three things possible, or screws them up royally.  So you don't know those three things unless you see the movie first (unless you simply rely on summaries or reviews and trust them as accurate).  So the director is the one who brings a style and trustworthiness to the film like an author of a book or a musician and his style of music.  If the director consistently has those three things in his movies, then you can trust that those three things are likely present in his next movie.
Kagura
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Wed 20 Nov 2013
at 23:33
  • msg #271

Re: Movie Reviews

The director has a hand in it, yes, but the writers are responsible for the plot and the characters. If they don't write good characters, then there's no way even the best director can MAKE the characters good. Likewise if they fail to write an engaging story, there is no power on Earth that can make the story good.
Heath
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Thu 21 Nov 2013
at 01:34
  • msg #272

Re: Movie Reviews

While I agree with you in theory, and the writers are, in my opinion, the most important for the "story," most writers complain that the directors essentially rewrite the script as they go for pacing and other dramatic reasons.  So the drama and "action" as portrayed on the screen -- the "presentation," if you will -- is really the result of the director.

For example, Stephen Spielberg and Tim Burton could make the same script into two totally different movies.  Burton's might even be stop animation.  Similarly, Hitchcock and Spike Lee would make two very different movies from the same script.

Similarly, while I generally think of actors as the least important in the hierarchy, a good actor can bring an otherwise dull dialogue or scene to life.  Robin Williams and James Earl Jones would have brought completely different performances to Dead Poets Society, for example.

Movies are really a collaborative effort, and if any players fall short, the thing can die.  But a director's responsibility is to perfect the script into the movie it can be, to get the best performance from the actors, and to bring every nuance in the movie to life.  So I think they are the most important in the long run.
Kagura
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Thu 21 Nov 2013
at 01:49
  • msg #273

Re: Movie Reviews

I agree that a movie is a collaborative effort by all parties. I just think you're giving too much credit to the directors, that's all.
Heath
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Thu 21 Nov 2013
at 16:02
  • msg #274

Re: Movie Reviews

I don't think so.  The director is the "buck stops here" person who is responsible for everyone else in the production giving their best.  That's why so many directors release a "director's cut" when the producers change their product for Hollywood purposes or whatever.  The director knows he is the one responsible for it being a "best director" or "best picture," or even "best" in many subcategories, at the awards ceremonies.  He is the maestro.
Athena
player, 1089 posts
Thu 21 Nov 2013
at 16:43
  • msg #275

Re: Movie Reviews

I look at the plotline and characters. Plus I have specific genres that I like more than others so I prefer the genres I enjoy as well.
Kagura
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Thu 21 Nov 2013
at 22:46
  • msg #276

Re: Movie Reviews

In other news: The good news is that Scott Lynch's Republic of Thieves has FINALLY be published. The bad news is that it's in hardcover so I have to wait 6 to 12 months for it to be in paperback before I buy it… and I've already been waiting since like, 2008 or 2009… the release date kept getting pushed back.
Yoss
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Thu 21 Nov 2013
at 23:16
  • msg #277

Re: Movie Reviews

Weren't you just telling me that most books go to paperback at the same time as hard?
Kagura
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Thu 21 Nov 2013
at 23:27
  • msg #278

Re: Movie Reviews

No? Most of the books that I read. Most, not all, go directly to paperback and eBook. This particular book went too hardcover and eBook, and I want an actual physical copy of it, so I have to wait for the paperback to come out.
Athena
player, 1138 posts
Fri 22 Nov 2013
at 16:20
  • msg #279

Re: Movie Reviews

A new Persona 3 movie is being released in Japan today. And Sunday they announce the name of the new Persona game
Kagura
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Fri 22 Nov 2013
at 22:38
  • msg #280

Re: Movie Reviews

Obviously the new Persona game will be called Persona 5. Is there really any doubt about that?

But if they're announcing it this Sunday, I've got less time than I'd thought before I'll be buying a PS4… unless they announce it for the PS3, in which case I won't be buying the PS4 for quite some time. And that's fine.
LuLu Prayer
player, 678 posts
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Fri 22 Nov 2013
at 23:07
  • msg #281

Re: Movie Reviews

I've recently watched Nell, it was a wonderful movie
FourLegged
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Sun 24 Nov 2013
at 21:24
  • msg #282

Re: Movie Reviews

I just saw Holy Ghost People.  An unevenly paced independent film with giant plot holes.
Yoss
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Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 00:15
  • msg #283

Re: Movie Reviews

I just watched Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.  It was fun, but not something I plan to ever see again.
Heath
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Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 01:57
  • msg #284

Re: Movie Reviews

I saw Thor, Hunger Games - Catching Fire (twice -- yes, I have a teenaged daughter), Free Birds, and Frozen over the holidays.

The second time we watched Hunger Games was at a D-Box theater.  That was my first time watching something in D-Box.  Has anyone else watched in D-Box?  D-Box is a special seat that slightly moves, rumbles, and pulses with the move, sort of similar to a motion machine but timed to the movie and more subtle.  Now I have to see all future action movies in D-Box because it added such another dimension to pulling me into the movie.
Kagura
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Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 02:28
  • msg #285

Re: Movie Reviews

I feel like that would be super distracting. I'm able to immerse myself in a movie without external influences, but if my chair started vibrating I'd start wondering what was going on, and that would detract from the experience, I think.
firelizardkimi
GM, 2235 posts
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Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 04:51
  • msg #286

Re: Movie Reviews

I think it would be the same for me, Kagura, but I also think that there are probably many people who feel as Heath does about it. Everyone's different and reacts to different stimuli accordingly.
Yoss
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Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 16:58
  • msg #287

Re: Movie Reviews

Next they'll do full "Star Tours" style movies.
Heath
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Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 18:45
  • msg #288

Re: Movie Reviews

In reply to Kagura (msg # 285):

That's what I thought, which is why I say it is subtle.  It all fit into the movie very nicely and was not distracting.  It is not like a ride or roller coaster or anything.

If the camera pans, for instance, the chair moves ever so slightly to mimic the camera motion.

The vibration part of it is not really similar to the motion machines, but more similar to an XBox controller that vibrates, and I don't know anyone who finds them distracting.  Just like 3D pulls you in to the movie better, so does this.  I'm not saying you "need" it to get immersed, but that it adds another dimension of immersion that, if you haven't experienced, can't really judge.

It's really something you have to experience once before getting an opinion.  And only about half the movie has any kind of movement or anything.  Probably less than 50% of it had any motion, pulsing, or other seat involvement.

It also has three settings, so you can set it on high, medium or low.  For people who feel it would be distracting, they can set it on low for very minimal stimuli.  I like to set it on high just for fun, especially since it was not my first time seeing the movie.
Yoss
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Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 18:47
  • msg #289

Re: Movie Reviews

I highly recommend A Man For All Seasons.
FourLegged
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Wed 4 Dec 2013
at 18:51
  • msg #290

Re: Movie Reviews

I would also like to add my recommendation for that movie.
Yoss
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Fri 6 Dec 2013
at 21:02
  • msg #291

Re: Movie Reviews

It should be one of Heath's favorites, being a lawyer and all.
Heath
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Mon 9 Dec 2013
at 17:10
  • msg #292

Re: Movie Reviews

Never saw it, actually.
firelizardkimi
GM, 2236 posts
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Mon 9 Dec 2013
at 19:01
  • msg #293

Re: Movie Reviews

What's it about?
Heath
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Mon 9 Dec 2013
at 23:13
  • msg #294

Re: Movie Reviews

It is about a demonic clown that terrorizes a town, based on a Stephen King novel...  Oh, wait, maybe that's not what you were talking about.
firelizardkimi
GM, 2237 posts
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Tue 10 Dec 2013
at 21:07
  • msg #295

Re: Movie Reviews

Well, I meant A Man for All Seasons, but It sounds interesting now, too.
Heath
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Tue 10 Dec 2013
at 22:22
  • msg #296

Re: Movie Reviews

If you've never read IT, then I recommend it.  Though long, it is well written throughout, covering the time period of the children's youth and when they return as adults after realizing IT had returned.  (It is not really a clown, that's just one of IT's incarnations to lure children to the sewers where IT dwells.)  It is actually something much, much worse.
firelizardkimi
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Tue 10 Dec 2013
at 22:53
  • msg #297

Re: Movie Reviews

It's Stephen King. It's always much worse than it seems. The only one of his books I've read is Cell, and that freaked me out pretty good, I have to say. I still use my cell phone, but it definitely gives pause for thought.
Heath
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Tue 10 Dec 2013
at 23:11
  • msg #298

Re: Movie Reviews

He has his horror books, but also some that are not horror (like "The Body," which was turned into the "Stand by Me" movie, and "Shawshank Redemption").  He just has a certain reputation as a horror writer.

I just read 11/22/63.  It is not a horror book at all and has a very interesting take on time travel and the Kennedy years, interspersing fiction with real facts in history.

"The Green Mile" was also a really good non-horror book.  "Under the Dome" was also a good non-horror book.  "Secret Window, Secret Garden" (a novelette) was one of my favorites with its twist at the end.  (Read the book; don't see the lame Johnny Depp movie made about it.)
Yoss
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Wed 11 Dec 2013
at 01:35
  • msg #299

Re: Movie Reviews

firelizardkimi:
What's it about?

A Man For All Seasons is about Sir Thomas More, specifically about his lawyerly and religious interactions with King Henry VIII of England, who had broken away from the Roman Catholic church in order to divorce his wife.  It is a tale of a man who carefully uses the law to protect himself while also not giving in to the heresy of the king in regards to the church.  Since Heath is a lawyer, I figured he'd appreciate it.  It is also just a great movie, with six academy awards back in 1966, including Best Picture and Best Actor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...l_Seasons_(1966_film)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Thomas_More
firelizardkimi
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Wed 11 Dec 2013
at 05:11
  • msg #300

Re: Movie Reviews

Hmm, maybe I'll have to go looking for some more Stephen King to read... his non-horror stuff (one of my current favorite TV shows is also based on a King novel).

That sounds potentially interesting, Yoss, but perhaps too dry for my tastes in reading material.
Heath
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Wed 11 Dec 2013
at 16:11
  • msg #301

Re: Movie Reviews

"The Stand" and "Tommyknockers" are more science fiction types than horror, with the Stand about survivors trying to get by after a government virus kills off most of the population (no zombies -- don't worry), and Tommyknockers about a lady who finds an ancient buried UFO in the backwoods and becomes obsessed with digging it up secretly and the effects it (and its unusual radiation) has on her and the surrounding town.

Of the horror genre, "Misery," "Cujo," "Gerald's Game," and "The Shining" are probably my favorites -- note that the movie of the Shining is very, very different from the book in both plot points and tone.  The movie is straight horror, while the book focuses more on the man's decent into madness trying to not become his abusive, alcoholic father while stuck in the haunted hotel.  "Firestarter" is probably not technically a horror story either -- the movie follows the book closely.  I've not read "The Dead Zone," but I loved the movie.

I am currently reading "Doctor Sleep" and Dan Brown's "Inferno."  Anything by Dan Brown I highly recommend.  I especially liked Digital Fortress.
LuLu Prayer
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Wed 15 Jan 2014
at 06:38
  • msg #302

Re: Movie Reviews

I dunno anything when it comes to media, this is for NOLIFE, sorry
Heath
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Thu 16 Jan 2014
at 19:13
  • msg #303

Re: Movie Reviews

Anyone see 47 Ronin?  Kagura perhaps?

It has some harsh reviews, but I think they come critics who tend to not understand Japanese culture very well.  I rather enjoyed the movie.  It is slow and deliberate at times (as much Japanese artistic culture is), and it veers from the true story and the legends by quite a long ways, but they made sense within its framework.  The samurai were stoic and not passionate, but that is exactly what was expected of samurai.  Anyway, not the best movie in the world, but definitely worth a view, especially if you know the most famous legend in Japanese history...
Vixcis
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Thu 16 Jan 2014
at 19:41
  • msg #304

Re: Movie Reviews

OOO I loved doctor sleep...you must read his dark tower series, it is my all time favorite.
Heath
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Thu 16 Jan 2014
at 19:44
  • msg #305

Re: Movie Reviews

I'm reading that now...actually, I put it on hiatus so I can finish reading Inferno by Dan Brown, but I'll get back to it soon.
Vixcis
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Thu 16 Jan 2014
at 22:13
  • msg #306

Re: Movie Reviews

Now your making me want a new book...I do need the next in the parasol protectorate series...Gail Carrigers wonderful if you ever finish the seven books you're reading at the moment Heath.
Heath
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Thu 16 Jan 2014
at 22:20
  • msg #307

Re: Movie Reviews

Never read those...
Kagura
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Thu 16 Jan 2014
at 22:33
  • msg #308

Re: Movie Reviews

In reply to Heath (msg # 303):

I haven't seen it, actually, although I want to. I just don't really have much time for movies right now between my schedule and 'kimi's. So there's a handful of movies that I will see this year because we'll make time for them (Captain America 2, Mockingjay Part 1, The Hobbit Part 3, Divergent, and maybe a couple of others… the previews for the RoboCop remake looked pretty good), anything that we don't have planned as a movie we want to see together, I probably won't get a chance for.

I'm thinking about looking into 47 Ronin when it comes out on DVD though.
Vixcis
player, 5280 posts
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Thu 16 Jan 2014
at 23:21
  • msg #309

Re: Movie Reviews

They're steampunk oriented so it's all very ladies in Victorian dresses drinking tea and fighting vampires with umbrellas. They are short and trashy but I enjoy them.
Heath
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Thu 16 Jan 2014
at 23:30
  • msg #310

Re: Movie Reviews

Kagura:
I'm thinking about looking into 47 Ronin when it comes out on DVD though.

I'm sure this one's fine on DVD.  The 3D is nice but not essential.  The cinematography and landscapes are beautifully rendered, so you might lose some of that effect, but not a "must see" in the theaters.

However, I would recommend reviewing the history of the actual 47 ronin and the legends that followed.  I think it makes the movie a little more interesting to see what's changed and have some background.  It's like reading a book before watching a movie because you get more character depth beforehand.
Kagura
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Fri 17 Jan 2014
at 01:00
  • msg #311

Re: Movie Reviews

I never see movies in 3D if I can help it anyways. The glasses slide off my nose (because I have to wear them over my normal glasses) and give me a headache.

I've got plenty of time to catch up on my history/mythology before I see the movie. Or after. Either way tends to work for me, and it depends on how interested I am in something. It'll be awhile before the movie comes out on DVD anyways, so I've got time.
Vixcis
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Fri 17 Jan 2014
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  • msg #312

Re: Movie Reviews

I thought the most famous Japanese legend was the one about the monkey king, that ones always popping up obscurely in the video games I play.
Heath
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Fri 17 Jan 2014
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Re: Movie Reviews

I love watching the movies in 3D.  Anything that helps me forget I'm in a stinky, sticky auditorium with a bunch of strangers munching on popcorn is nice.

At home, I have a large screen active 3D television.  With that you get better picture than at the movies or passive 3D TVs, which use passive technology 3D.  The passive technology lowers the definition of the picture a little.  With both eyes together, it's still pretty good, but with active 3D, you get the highest quality HD in both eyes, even if you close an eye.

Most of the recent videogames are also programmed in 3D, and they look really nice at home.
Heath
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Fri 17 Jan 2014
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  • msg #314

Re: Movie Reviews

In reply to Vixcis (msg # 312):

Well, considering I don't even know what you're referring to and I've lived in Japan for about 7 of the last 20 years...
Vixcis
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Fri 17 Jan 2014
at 18:48
  • msg #315

Re: Movie Reviews

He flies around on a cloud and has the staff that grows...now I'm going to have to look it up...
Vixcis
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Fri 17 Jan 2014
at 18:50
  • msg #316

Re: Movie Reviews

Ah it's journey to the west and it's a Chinese legend, nevermind!
Heath
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Fri 17 Jan 2014
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  • msg #317

Re: Movie Reviews

Momotaro is probably the most famous folklore legend in Japan -- not based on a true story, but more of a fairy tale.
Kagura
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Fri 17 Jan 2014
at 21:38
  • msg #318

Re: Movie Reviews

Journey to the West is indeed a Chinese legend, although it does have an anime adaptation in the form of Saiyuki.

Actually, there are a lot of co-opted legends that are commonly used in anime/video games from Japan. For example, another popular appearance in Japanese games and such is the four gods - Genbu, Byakko, Seiryuu and Suzaku. That's based on the Chinese pantheon Xuan Wu, Bai Hu, Zhu Que, Qing Long and the Jade Emperor (who occupies the direction of "center" to the North, West, South and East of the other four).

Mythology is fun!
Heath
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Tue 21 Jan 2014
at 23:12
  • msg #319

Re: Movie Reviews

Oscars are coming up soon, so here's an idea:

Post what you think are the following:

1) The most underrated movie of 2013 (that you liked despite the critics)
2) The most overrated movie of 2013 (that you didn't like despite the critics) and
3) Your secret pleasure (a movie you liked even though you know it's kind of weird or not one most people liked -- keep it clean!)
Heath
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Tue 28 Jan 2014
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  • msg #320

Re: Movie Reviews

I guess we don't have to keep it to 2013 if you want to include older movies.  But here is a list of all movies that came out in 2013: http://www.wildaboutmovies.com...n_Theaters_2013.html


I guess I'll go first:


1) The most underrated movie of 2013 (that you liked despite the critics)

-Oblivion
-Now You See Me
-The Lone Ranger



2) The most overrated movie of 2013 (that you didn't like despite the critics) and
-Monsters University
-[I'm sure there are more that I didn't see yet...]


3) Your secret pleasure (a movie you liked even though you know it's kind of weird or not one most people liked -- keep it clean!)

-Pacific Rim
-Bad Grandpa
-The Conjuring
-Insidious 2
jioan
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Tue 28 Jan 2014
at 00:09
  • msg #321

Re: Movie Reviews

I'll try although I only saw a fraction of the movies.

1. Thor: Dark World
Pacific Rim
The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug

2. Star Trek: Into Darkness
World War Z
Ender's Game

3. The Wolverine
Heath
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Tue 28 Jan 2014
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  • msg #322

Re: Movie Reviews

Funny.  Your #2 movies are probably my three favorite movies for the year.  :)
jioan
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Fri 31 Jan 2014
at 23:16
  • msg #323

Re: Movie Reviews

What did you think of Ender's Game?  I've heard a wide variety of reactions and am curious as to what you thought of the books and the movie in relation to them.
Heath
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Fri 31 Jan 2014
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  • msg #324

Re: Movie Reviews

For a discussion about Ender's Game that I gave my opinion in, see here:
link to a message in another game

What I didn't like of the movie was that it pushed too fast through the battle school and should have been broken out into two movies rather than make drastic cuts.  I was also disappointed that it wasn't in 3D.  The zero G environment would have made for great 3D.  Obviously, the books are better and have more gravitas as to the underlying issues and plot points, but they did a good job of turning it into an action/adventure movie.  It is probably a much better movie for those who read the books and understand the contextualized details than for those who just watch the movie.
jioan
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Mon 3 Feb 2014
at 22:11
  • msg #325

Re: Movie Reviews

I think the film is a nice supplement to the book because it was cool to some of the scenes come to life, but I think the film fails as a standalone experience.  The people I watched the movie with who hadn't read the book thought it was OK.  This is a shame considering it's based on what I think is one of the best sci-fi books of all time.

In other movie news, anybody else afraid of DC rushing the Justice League movie?
Kagura
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Mon 3 Feb 2014
at 22:15
  • msg #326

Re: Movie Reviews

Ugh. Don't talk to me about DC's movies right now.

Jesse Eisenberg to play Lex Luthor in the upcoming Superman vs. Batman movie.

It's like they're either trying to lose money, or they're attempting to make another "Batman and Robin"-type film...
jioan
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Mon 3 Feb 2014
at 22:22
  • msg #327

Re: Movie Reviews

I think they're trying to hype up the new movie to rival marvel so they're getting big name actors and big name characters without any thought as to the quality of the movie.  I can just see some big WB executive going, "How come they're able to make a movie about some raccoon and we can't even make a Wonder Woman movie!"

They're playing catchup when they should have focused on making the Green Lantern movie a few years ago waaaay better so that it could work as their Iron Man.  They could have launched a sequel to GL focusing on the foundation of the Justice League with Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman movies to help out.

What's sad is that I prefer DC comics over marvel comics, and they have a ton of characters to choose from but they'll probably never get movies because DC can't get their act together.
Kagura
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Tue 4 Feb 2014
at 01:30
  • msg #328

Re: Movie Reviews

Yes, but. Jesse. Eisenberg. As. Lex. Luthor.

This is the kid who played Mark Wahlberg in The Social Network we're talking about here. As one of the biggest, most iconic DC villains there is. A scrawny little mop-headed kid. As the large, imposing, bald, super-genius rival to Superman.

DC has had Superman and Batman movies in the past which could have acted as their "Iron Man", they just never capitalized on their successes the way they should have if they wanted a chance at fighting against the MCU machine.

I'll also point out that Marvel didn't need big name actors to become their characters (casting Chris Hemsworth, Tom Hiddleston, Jeremy Renner and even Chris Evans, who had already starred as Johnny Storm/The Human Torch in the Fantastic Four movies, were all longshots that paid off big time). Certainly they did choose some big names for some of their better known heroes (RDJ for Iron Man being the most obvious, but also Scarlett Johanssen as Black Widow and Mark Ruffalo as The Hulk) but the casting has always been very well thought out, to the point that nobody can argue that anyone else should have been chosen to play the characters (Stan Lee has been quoted as saying that RDJ is exactly how he imagined Tony Stark would be).

Basically, I feel like DC's problem is less that they're trying to play catch-up and more they aren't even on the same playing field. They keep choosing the wrong people to represent their characters on the big screen, and relying on cheesy special effects (I totally agree with you about the GL movie… I saw the trailers for it and just went "nope") to cover for inadequacies in their cast selections and script writing…

TBH, I feel like they really could have gone somewhere with the Batman Begins trilogy if they'd chosen to tie their universe into those. But they didn't. Not with their established cast.

I think they're just not going to be able to pull into the same class as Marvel. Not until they do what Marvel did when they realized that they could make their own movies instead of selling the rights to various studios and having said studios screw things up (see Spiderman 3). I'd say that they have some decent script writers at DC, except I'm still not sure how I feel about the "New 52" material… and I can't say how much of that is on the writers and how much is on the DC execs meddling in affairs better left alone.
jioan
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Tue 4 Feb 2014
at 02:01
  • msg #329

Re: Movie Reviews

I think DC has the potential to be on the same playing field as Marvel.  It's not like they don't have enough money.  (Man of Steel had a higher budget than Avengers) They also have more recognizable heroes than marvel.  Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman are more recognizable than any of the heroes in the Avengers movie.

The casting of famous actors regardless of whether they fit the roll as well as adding well known characters (Batman, Wonder Woman) show that WB wants in on the superhero money as fast as possible so they're turning the Man of Steel sequel into a Justice League type film to reach the interconnected movie franchise cash cow state that marvel has.

They don't seem to realize that Marvel built a base first.  They had a game plan from the beginning with multiple phases starting with four individual movies that slightly reference each other, and a movie that laid the groundwork for the interconnected universe.  Then they brought them all together for a single film that changed the status quo of the universe.  All of the movies in the MCU are rated fresh by rotten tomatoes and received favorable reception from critics and general audiences.

DC doesn't seem to have noticed because their only film before mixing and matching heroes is rated rotten and got mixed reviews.

And yes, Jesse Eisenberg makes no sense for Lex Luthor.  I was hoping for Bryan Cranston.
Kagura
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Tue 4 Feb 2014
at 02:48
  • msg #330

Re: Movie Reviews

Yeah, DC's trying a brute force approach with the assumption that people who like superhero movies will automatically like whatever they do. Marvel was subtle. They wormed their way into our brains… first with the films done by other companies (Spiderman, X-Men, Fantastic Four), then by hitting us with the most fun character they could - Tony Stark.

I would disagree that DC's heroes are "more" recognizable than Marvel's. Iron Man, the X-Men, The Fantastic Four, Captain America and the Hulk are what I would call at least as recognizable as DC's Big Three (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman). Within the comic book crowd, well, my friends were talking about how excited they were about the rumored Thor movie back in 2006. Five full years before it even came out.

Yes, it's clear that WB wants a piece of the superhero pie, but they're not even looking at the metaphorical cake they already have. DC has now successfully adapted TWO of its JLA heroes into popular television series, something which Marvel hasn't quite managed as well with Agents of SHIELD. Personally, I think they should stay out of each others' way, let Marvel have the big screens and DC take the smaller ones. Yes, I know movies make more money, but it's all about how well you can adapt your characters' stories. Marvel stories and heroes adapt nicely to the big screen because they're grandiose in nature. Go big or go home kind of stuff. Tony Stark put it best in The Avengers: "Let's do a head count here: your brother the demigod; a super soldier, a living legend who kind of lives up to the legend; a man with breathtaking anger management issues; a couple of master assassins…" and of course, he doesn't even mention himself, the "genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist".

DC on the other hand, has never been as flashy. Batman is a shining example of their core. "Detective Comics". He's a detective. He works in the shadows and doesn't expect parades in his honor or anything. Superman works as a newspaper reporter and grew up on a farm. Wonder Woman… is the token female. But go further. GL is basically a space detective. The Question is a conspiracy theorist detective (expy of Rorschach from Watchmen). Green Arrow is basically Batman with a Robin Hood complex. But mostly, without their gear or whatever, DC's heroes are… human. They are extraordinary by dint of fancy tricks, fighting skills and brains.

That's just my impression, anyways. I'll admit that the majority of my exposure to both the DCU and the MCU is through their media forms rather than the comics themselves (DCU through the Justice League and Justice League: Unlimited animated series, as well as Smallville and Arrow; MCU through the movies and assorted cartoon series), although I have picked up a great deal about both universes just because I have friends who have been into them since forever.
jioan
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Tue 4 Feb 2014
at 03:40
  • msg #331

Re: Movie Reviews

I don't think the issue with bringing a DCU to the big screen is the character's backgrounds or personalities.  I think the problem is that Marvel comics was crafted in the silver age with a single unified vision.  With the exception of Cap, Namor, and the original Human Torch almost every hero was made to fit into the preexisting marvel universe.  On the other hand, DC's characters were primarily made separately and many of their more prominent heroes were obtained from other companies.  The heroes generally didn't crossover unless they didn't have a series and were added to the JSA.  That's why most of the hero's in the DCU seem to have their own city to protect while the majority of marvel characters are crowded around New York.

Regardless of how well they fit together in the comics, bringing the Avengers together for a movie was still incredibly difficult.  One's a god/alien, another is an unpowered WW2 hero, one puts on a sentient suit, and another is a guy who can turn into a monster.  Joss Whedon who is famous for creating drama and humor out of strange groups in shows like Buffy and Firefly made it look effortless.  DC doesn't have Joss and has a much tougher job on their hands.

The worlds of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, and Martian Manhunter (the founding members of the JLA) are so distant that explaining them all or even a subset and then trying to convince the audience that they are the same world will be near impossible.  Alone they could all potentially have a string of good movies (well, maybe not J'onn) but bringing them together is a daunting task.  Trying to do so without establishing films will fail for sure.

That said, Superman and Batman without the rest of the JLA could be a good idea if executed correctly.  It would work because audiences are already familiar with the basics of the characters.  (Superman has had 6 major live-action movies and Batman has had 7)

I just love DC comics and I don't want them to screw this up.  I'm already mad at DC for destroying the legacy aspect of the DCU with the New 52.
Kagura
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Tue 4 Feb 2014
at 11:01
  • msg #332

Re: Movie Reviews

Oh god, I can just imagine if Marvel and DC did what Star Trek and Star Wars have done and gave one man the reins.

Seriously, can you imagine a JLA movie directed by Joss Whedon?
jioan
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Tue 4 Feb 2014
at 13:25
  • msg #333

Re: Movie Reviews

Flash and Green Lantern would have the best witty conversations, and he'd do Wonder Woman right.  I'm sold!

I think it's hilarious that JJ Abrams made a Star Trek movie that felt like a Star Wars movie so now he's making a Star Wars movie.  I wonder if his Star Wars will feel like Star Trek?  Well, hopefully he's not planning on rebooting the whole franchise this time.
Heath
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Tue 4 Feb 2014
at 17:35
  • msg #334

Re: Movie Reviews

"Odd Thomas" is coming out soon.  That was a good book.
jioan
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Tue 4 Feb 2014
at 18:13
  • msg #335

Re: Movie Reviews

I've never read it.  What distinguishes it from a normal thriller?
Heath
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Tue 4 Feb 2014
at 18:24
  • msg #336

Re: Movie Reviews

It is very different in a couple of ways.  Koontz uses a very wry style.  The protagonist is a simple, innocent young man.  The dialogue is funny at times, and the love story is actually an interesting mix -- he being innocent and lovable, and she being sharp witted and humorous.

The seeing the dead motif is similar to Sixth Sense, though utilized very differently, and the bodachs are an interesting and unique "being"--not demons, as you might think if you see the trailer.  It's worth a read, and moves quickly.

I actually do not think of it as a "thriller" per se, though I guess it has those elements.  It is more of a slightly humorous adventure with kitty-love type romance--and a paranormal element to it.  There are 5 or so books in the series, though the first is complete in and of itself.
Heath
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Thu 20 Feb 2014
at 17:28
  • msg #337

Re: Movie Reviews

The Fantastic Four cast has now just outdone the Batman vs. Superman cast as one of the most head-scratchingly weird choices...
Vixcis
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Thu 20 Feb 2014
at 19:46
  • msg #338

Re: Movie Reviews

I don't understand why they keep even doing the fantastic 4, I never thought they were that popular
Kagura
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Thu 20 Feb 2014
at 21:22
  • msg #339

Re: Movie Reviews

The movies did really well, actually. And they're one of the better-known B-teams of superheroes.

I think the casting only seems weird because it's a reboot and the previous cast were all really, ridiculously, inhumanly pretty, while the new cast seem kind of... ordinary?

People got upset about the casting of Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston as Thor and Loki back when they were announced as well, and look how well that turned out.

For now, I'll trust Marvel's judgement on this one.
Heath
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Thu 20 Feb 2014
at 21:35
  • msg #340

Re: Movie Reviews

They're also doing a series called "Gotham," which happens during Bruce Wayne's younger days.  It might be worth checking out.

I thought the casting on the previous Fantastic 4 pretty much met my vision of what they looked like, even if the movies weren't the best.  The new ones don't...at all.
Vixcis
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Thu 20 Feb 2014
at 21:41
  • msg #341

Re: Movie Reviews

That Gotham one actually looks kinda cool, Jada Pinkett smith plays a crime boss named Fish Mooney...It shows the battle of organized crime against the freaky people like penguin and Joker before batman came on the scene
Heath
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Thu 20 Feb 2014
at 23:08
  • msg #342

Re: Movie Reviews

But I kind of like the history developed in the Batman video games, so I hope they don't mess up that too much, especially with Cobblepot.
jioan
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Sat 22 Feb 2014
at 16:36
  • msg #343

Re: Movie Reviews

In reply to Vixcis (msg # 338):

If they didn't make a new fantastic four movie then the film rights would revert to Marvel.  Which is sad as marvel studios has a pretty good track record right now.

By the way, anyone else see the Guardians of the Galaxy trailer?
Kagura
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Sat 22 Feb 2014
at 17:00
  • msg #344

Re: Movie Reviews

Oh, is it not Marvel making the F4 movie? In that case, I have no faith. It will fail. And in a decade or so, the rights will go back to Marvel and everything will be fine again.

I did see the Guardians of the Galaxy trailer. I'm... not sure what to think? Is it a parody movie? I don't get it. I guess I'll have to wait for more trailers to come out so I can figure out what kind of movie it actually is... but then again, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmw...n/NeverTrustATrailer
jioan
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Sun 23 Feb 2014
at 15:58
  • msg #345

Re: Movie Reviews

Fox is making the new Fantastic Four movie and it's supposed to be in continuity with the X-Men movies somehow.

Guardians of the Galaxy isn't a parody but it has a very light tone.  I think this was the right direction as trying to get the audience to take Rocket or Groot too seriously would probably be a mistake.  It's going to be more of a comedic space opera.  Or at least that's how most of the comics play out.  Think Star Wars with superheroes instead of Jedi and then remember it's directed by James Gunn.
Heath
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Wed 26 Feb 2014
at 18:12
  • msg #346

Re: Movie Reviews

Did you hear about the never aired Fantastic 4 movie?  They made it a couple decades ago just to avoid losing the rights, and it was apparently really bad, but they made it purposefully bad to save money.
Heath
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Wed 26 Feb 2014
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  • msg #347

Re: Movie Reviews

Here's a link about it.  Interesting read if you're interested in that kind of thing:  http://unseenfilms.blogspot.co...astic-four-1994.html

Wikipedia also has some more details about it:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fantastic_Four_(film)
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:19, Wed 26 Feb 2014.
jioan
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Wed 26 Feb 2014
at 22:49
  • msg #348

Re: Movie Reviews

Yeah, they made fun of it on the new season of Arrested Development.  I saw Stan Lee at Dragon Con a couple years ago, and he was asked a question about the movie.  He said that the actors were clueless as to the purpose of the film and tried their hardest to make a good movie.
Heath
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Wed 26 Feb 2014
at 23:07
  • msg #349

Re: Movie Reviews

That seems consistent with what Wikipedia reports
Bart
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Mon 17 Mar 2014
at 15:10
  • msg #350

Re: Movie Reviews

I could see Bryan Cranston as Lex Luther.  I think the executives thought, "We want a young Lex Luther, because this movie has to appeal to all the tweens out there, and who was that sad rich loner who was all desperate and angsty and wanted to fight in that Facebook movie?  Get that kid!"  Thus Jesse Eisenberg.
Heath
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Mon 17 Mar 2014
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Re: Movie Reviews

I agree.  And yes, Bryan Cranston would make an excellent Lex Luthor.  It would be funny if he played Jesse Eisenberg's father, Lex Luthor Sr., and taught him all his evil ways...
Heath
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Mon 17 Mar 2014
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  • msg #352

Re: Movie Reviews

...including how to shave his head.
Kagura
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Mon 17 Mar 2014
at 22:13
  • msg #353

Re: Movie Reviews

Oh hi Bart, been awhile since we last saw you around these parts.

Hmm, yeah, maybe I could see Bryan Cranston as Lex Luthor. I dunno. Maybe not.
Heath
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Wed 19 Mar 2014
at 18:20
  • msg #354

Re: Movie Reviews

St. Patrick's Day fun fact:  Jennifer Anniston got her first movie role in the early 90's horror flick "Leprechaun," being terrorized by Warwick Davis (yes, the Ewok from Return of the Jedi).
Bart
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Sun 23 Mar 2014
at 12:10
  • msg #355

Re: Movie Reviews

The last movie I saw was Little Monsters.  It was my first time viewing it -- there was a large poster for it in the movie rental store near where I live, but my parents would never let me check it out.

I was really surprised by how young Fred Savage looked.  Holy cow, he could be my kid at this point in life.  The movie was pretty gruesome, if I'd watched it years ago I probably would have loved the special effects and laughed at people getting their heads torn off.  Now, I still laughed, but not as much -- I spent most of my time sitting there thinking about how I could duplicate the special effects in the movie.  It was fun, for an 80's kid's movie.  I don't know that I'd recommend it to other adults, though, unless you really want to zone out for a bit, or you'd like to recreate your own variety of "shock horror for kids".
Bart
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Wed 9 Apr 2014
at 11:30
  • msg #356

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I went back and watched The Addams Family (1991) and Addams Family Values (1993).  The first one was great and I really enjoyed it.  The second one was just sped up too much and too campy.  Gomez flipping Fester onto the wall then throwing knives all around him in sped-up time?  Morticia being spun away from Fester and leaving flames on the ground during their dance?  They went from "Sure, this could have actually happened, why not?" to "This is obviously fake."  Plus Gomez become a real pansy.  He was something like that in the first movie, but he really degenerated in the second.  Still, though, there were many good scenes and things I enjoyed.  Perhaps, seeing who wrote the two screenplays and how that worked out, it's the difference between George Lucas working with other people going over his scripts (Star Wars Episodes 4-6 which were great) and George Lucas having sole prerogative over how his movies went (Star Wars Episodes 1-3 which were not so great).

I'm so glad that Tim Burton and Johnny Depp went for a Dark Shadows movie instead of an Addams Family movie.  If that had been Gomez having an affair (forced or otherwise) with Angelique, instead of Barnabas, I would have been upset -- the deep and lasting love affair between Gomez and Morticia is one of the cornerstone of Addams Family fandom, in my opinion.  Dark Shadows was still pretty stupid, in my opinion, the "sex scene" for one was just not sexy at all (so they're supernatural creatures who can't really die and they're destroying the building as they go at it, funny for a second but not really sexy), and the movie had plenty of other flaws.

They're making a new Addams Family movie, but it's going to be animated.  I worry that it'll be even more campy, just a long series of cheap visual gags and puns with two-dimensional characters doing obviously impossible things.  That it's going back to the "original roots" of the cartoons instead of the TV show or the movies isn't a point in its favor.  Thing, Cousin It?  They're canon in my opinion.  An Addams Family movie without Thing in it at all wouldn't really be an Addams Family movie, no matter how true it might be to the original cartoons.  Seriously, most people alive today who are familiar with the Addams Family mythos, and everyone who is in the target audience for this movie, will associate Thing with the Addams Family.  Gomez and Mortica's tangos (which I noticed the 1991 Addams Family movie changed to "waltzes") should be in an Addams Family movie as well.  A waltz is that stuffy rich-person dance you see in Pride and Prejudice, as well as Sense and Sensibility, where people might sort of make little circles as they dance but is otherwise rather sedate.  A tango is that pulse-racing heart-pounding sexy dance from South America, ay-yi-yi-chihuahua: ¡Yo quiero tango!

In my opinion, I'd change some of the Addams Family scenes.  For instance, the shot of them about to pour something out of a cauldron down onto carolers (and in the first movie the carolers were inexplicably caroling while facing away from the house).  I'd change that to hot milk or something.  The original cartoon that inspired that doesn't explicitly state what's being poured down.  I'd have Wednesday answer the door and expressionlessly ask, "We'd like to thank you for your caroling. Would you like some hot milk?"  And then they say yes and the milk dowses the group, sort of like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hl00Plh26Y  That would be funny and there'd be an element of, "Well, you asked for it."
jioan
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Tue 22 Apr 2014
at 22:32
  • msg #357

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Which movie are you guys looking forward to most this summer?  Personally, I'm really excited for Guardians of the Galaxy.  Hopefully it'll allow the MCU to open up and take more risks while being a great stand alone sci-fi flick.
firelizardkimi
GM, 2392 posts
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The Earth sucks.
Tue 22 Apr 2014
at 22:42
  • msg #358

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I'm really excited for How to Train Your Dragon 2. Because DRAGONS.
Bart
player, 12256 posts
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Tue 22 Apr 2014
at 23:15
  • msg #359

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

What's the MCU?
firelizardkimi
GM, 2393 posts
Gravity is a myth.
The Earth sucks.
Wed 23 Apr 2014
at 00:15
  • msg #360

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Marvel Comics Universe.
FourLegged
GM, 41100 posts
Quadruped Phascolarctos
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Wed 23 Apr 2014
at 00:28
  • msg #361

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

firelizardkimi:
I'm really excited for How to Train Your Dragon 2. Because DRAGONS.


I'm excited for How to Train Your Dragon 2.  Because TRAINS!

Though, to be honest, I was kinda disappointed by the lack of trains in the first one.
Bart
player, 12259 posts
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Wed 23 Apr 2014
at 04:17
  • msg #362

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Remember the big fight in the end?  I've played enough video games to know that they trained that Red Death dragon right into the ground.  You could say that they schooled him, to boot.

You know, I just thinking about the Addam's Family post I made earlier here and I think that there are other "fandoms" which use "what's come later" to improve on the base material.  For instance, take the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.  Originally, they all wore identical headbands and you couldn't really tell apart who was who other than by what weapon they happened to be holding.  The four-colored headbands really improved TMNT.  Thing and waltzing improved the Addam's Family.
This message was last edited by the player at 05:41, Wed 23 Apr 2014.
Heath
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Tue 29 Apr 2014
at 00:04
  • msg #363

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Saw Captain America on Dbox.  It was one of the better movies in that medium.  As he falls out of the plane, for example, the chairs moved forward and gave the feeling of falling, and all the fighting scenes made for a lot of movement.
Bart
player, 12288 posts
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Tue 29 Apr 2014
at 04:08
  • msg #364

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I'd never heard of this Dbox thing.  It turns out there's one near me -- down the back side of the mountain, but I'll have to go visit it one day and see what it's like.
Heath
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Tue 29 Apr 2014
at 15:57
  • msg #365

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

If it's a good action type of movie, it's really worth it.  Captain America: Winter Soldier was one of the best done and I've seen about 5 movies there.

(You can adjust the setting to low, medium or high, with medium being default.  I always set it to high, and Captain America was the first time I actually almost spilled my drink because it was moving so much--good movement, not distracting.  It's not as crazy movement as like the rides that use that kind of technology (Star Tours, etc.), but enough to add a dimension to the viewing experience, and usually you get the IMax 3D or some other type of high end experience coupled with it.  Also, you get your own seat, so no sharing of armrests or anything like that, which is my pet peeve--plenty of personal space.)

Catching Fire was pretty good, and the latest Hobbit movie was also pretty good, especially the river barrel scene and the dragon scenes at the end.  I haven't watched a horror movie in it yet, and I wonder it that would add anything to it.
Cody Coriva
GM, 29099 posts
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Former Market Manager
Sat 10 May 2014
at 01:03
  • msg #366

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

That sounds awesome. I'd never heard of it, but there are a couple in my area. I'm gonna have to see some movies there.
Bart
player, 12348 posts
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Sun 11 May 2014
at 13:58
  • msg #367

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

So, I found a dbox theater.  Apparently it's like imax -- it may or may not be a separate theater.  The one I was at, one room was all dbo0x seats, but the room I was in had only two rows of dbox seats.  The only show that had it at the time I was there was Spider Man 2.

It was interesting.  You have to register which seat you want, so good luck if there's a tall person in front of where you wanted to sit and you want to sit somewhere else.  Luckily nobody sat in front of me.  My chair didn't work at first, even though I'd had to pick and register a seat -- I had to run out of the theater, tell people, and they want and turned it on for me.  The actuators aren't very fine.  It sort of felt like the beginning of 3D where people really went out of their way to have things coming at you, so that you could "see" the 3D all the time -- I wasn't sure what I was supposed to be identifying with.  At times the chair would start to tilt in one direction and this was sometimes because something on screen was tilted, but might also have been because it was getting ready to really lurch.  I usually self identify with the hero -- that would be Spider Man in this case.  If I hadn't been in a dbox seat, I would have "felt" it when Spider Man hit and when the bad guy hit I'd just sit there and gloat.  Here, I felt it when Spider Man and when the villain hit something.  I didn't get a free-flowing swing back and forth feeling/feature when Spider Man swung back and forth, so there would either be nothing or a little rumble until Spider Man was thrown into a building and then I'd get a strong hit.  Also, I need a footrest attached to the chair.  I'm not a fan of having my feet lifted off the ground when the chair tilts back.  I wouldn't mind smaller chairs too (5'10 and 165 pounds, I wear a size Medium shirt) -- all theater seats are just too wide, the armrests are way out there, so there's not quite enough room to put my arms by my side without my elbows hitting the armrests but they're too far away to comfortably rest my arms no them.  This made it a bit whiplashy at times as I'd rock on the seat.

All in all, it was interesting, but if I go to another theater with that, I don't think I'll pay the extra amount for that kind of ticket.  The seat needs much finer actuators (the lack of swinging back and forth when Spider Man swung) and in a "most of society is overweight" world where lots and lots of people would be using it, the actuators are going to have to be more industrial.  I did try turning the chair up to 3 and down to 1 and at 2 in the middle.

All in all the movie was enjoyable.

By the way, spoiler alert, that thing of his Dad's that Peter finds, he apparently just left it for those people to find, the ones that were walking out before he found it.  Seriously, Peter?  You're going to let someone die because you think their request is too dangerous, so you're just going to leave everything else around that'll let people fill that request themselves?  Also, the one line where Peter asks, "And what does that make me?!"  The answer is "An angsty idiot."

Last but not least, WTF is up with that hair (I didn't go see the Amazing Spider Man movie, so maybe the hair was the same there), did we really need poofy Twilight hair (and apparently Twilight angst) in a Spider Man movie?
Heath
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Mon 12 May 2014
at 15:59
  • msg #368

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I've never had a problem with anyone sitting in front of me at d-box.  It's stadium seating, so it wouldn't matter even if they were.  It sounds like your first experience with d-box you were overly concentrating on the moving chair.  If you watch 2 or 3 movies that way, I think it'll be less of a novelty and more of a way to pull you into the movie.  The first couple movies I watched on it, I had already seen in a regular IMAX theater, so the novelty was a fun addition.

Also, they are weight activated, so if you are standing up and trying to push the buttons, it won't work.  You have to be sitting in it.  That, or they really did forget to turn on your seat.  They only turn on the seat you purchase, so you have to make sure to sit in the right seat.

My opinion was that Spider Man wasn't as good in d-box as Captain America was.  Captain America was the best experience I've had for d-box.  I think in the end, it really depends on who was in charge of programming the seats.

I was especially disappointed in the missed opportunity to float the chair so that you feel Spiderman's swinging, especially after Captain America was so good with the falling scenes.  It sounds like you had the same experience.

Because the d-box seats are expensive (to install, etc.), I typically only have seen theaters with 2 rows of d-box seats, but they are the best seats in the house.
Cody Coriva
GM, 29126 posts
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Former Market Manager
Mon 12 May 2014
at 22:01
  • msg #369

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Out of curiosity, what do people think of The Amazing Spiderman vs the original (with Toby McGuire)? Also what do you think of the second Amazing Spiderman vs the first one? I like The Amazing Spiderman, but not as much as the original. Maybe rewatching it I may grow to like it more, the new guy just doesn't feel like Spiderman to me.
Heath
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Mon 12 May 2014
at 22:51
  • msg #370

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I tend to like the newer ones better. Tobey was so brooding, and the relationships felt forced.  Spiderman is also supposed to be quick witted, but Tobey was slow on the draw.  Mary Jane was also a total ditz, whereas the new heroine has more admirable qualities.  The comedy is also better done in the newer ones.

That said, Electro was too Joel Schulmaker-ish for the new age of superhero movies, and the new storyline seemed to be a bit pieced together at the end, trying to lead into a new movie rather than tidying up its own loose ends.  Rhino was a complete and epic fail as to what he added (or failed to add) to the story.
Kagura
player, 18052 posts
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Tue 13 May 2014
at 00:36
  • msg #371

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

You say "new" heroine, except that canonically, Gwen Stacy was actually Peter's original love interest.

The fact that the newer movies use her instead of MJ actually made a TON of hardcore comic book fans quite happy.
Cody Coriva
GM, 29175 posts
One ring to rule them all
Former Market Manager
Tue 13 May 2014
at 23:41
  • msg #372

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Yeah, I did like that part (though I am by no means a hard core comic book fan).
Heath
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Tue 13 May 2014
at 23:43
  • msg #373

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

In reply to Kagura (msg # 371):

True.  I meant the "new movie," not the new heroine, though she is new to the movies since they skipped over her in the originals.  We are not speaking canonically here (or about the comics at all), particularly since I'm not a comic book person.
Cody Coriva
GM, 29179 posts
One ring to rule them all
Former Market Manager
Tue 13 May 2014
at 23:47
  • msg #374

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

On a side note, I'm looking forward to the new X-Men more than any movie this summer. I'm just trying to not get my expectations too high. Any other movies that people are most looking forward to this summer/year?
Kagura
player, 18084 posts
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Wed 14 May 2014
at 01:45
  • msg #375

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Bunches.

Maleficent (set to come out at the end of the month)

In June: How to Train Your Dragon 2

In July: Step Up All In (but only because they always have the BEST dance choreography in those movies... I may wait until it starts showing on network TV though, rather than paying for it in theaters)

August is Guardians of the Galaxy.

September The Maze Runner

November Mockingjay Part 1

And December the final installment in The Hobbit

There are probably others that I saw trailers for at some point and said "I think I want to see that", but those are the ones that I can remember when scanning down a list of movies to be released this year.
Heath
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Wed 14 May 2014
at 17:47
  • msg #376

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

In reply to Cody Coriva (msg # 374):

Godzilla.  (I hope it's done right this time.)

Edge of Tomorrow.  (A Groundhog Day scifi action flick with Tom Cruise?)

Guardians of the Galaxy. (I really hope it's as funny and sassy as its trailer.)

22 Jump Street.  (The first one was funnier than I expected.)

Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. (Apes vs. Humans -- what could be more primal?)

Jupiter Ascending.  (Another science fiction movie done by those who did the Matrix movies.)

Let's Be Cops. (This looks funny in previews. Hopefully won't disappoint.)

Dumb and Dumber To.  (The first one was hilarious and stupid...what more can I say?)
Heath
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Tue 20 May 2014
at 17:46
  • msg #377

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I finished watching the Breaking Bad series.  It has to be one of the greatest dramas ever created for television.  It is nearly technically flawless in storytelling, characters, and development, not to mention the subtle moral story of action and consequences.  I can see now why its rotten tomatoes score was 99 out of 100, something I've never seen before.  I'm just surprised I never watched it when it was on television.
Bart
player, 12384 posts
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Wed 21 May 2014
at 02:12
  • msg #378

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

What'd you think about Godzilla?

Edge of Tomorrow.  (A Groundhog Day scifi action flick with Tom Cruise?)
From the trailer, it looked more like a Super Saiyan time twist to powerup enough to be able to single-handedly defeat the big bad evil guy, whatever he (or they) is/are.

The rest I might rent, but movie theaters just feel like a waste of money when I could rent three to ten movies for the same price, depending on where I go.
Kagura
player, 18136 posts
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Sat 24 May 2014
at 01:23
  • msg #379

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Just watched the season finale of NCIS. I am now Not Okay.

Seriously. It should be illegal to make such a freaking emotional episode.

For those of you not in the know, Ralph Waite, the actor who played the father of one of the main cast characters died back in February. Since his character was very strongly tied to Mark Harmon's character (Leeroy Jethro Gibbs), instead of doing a simple in memoriam card at the end of the episode or re-airing Waite's final episode from earlier in the season, they chose to change the entire season finale and dedicate the episode to him. The episode, titled "Honor Thy Father" involves Gibbs getting the news of and then dealing with his father's death (while dodging assassination attempts related to the case the rest of the team is working on) and ends with his father's funeral followed by a picture of Mark Harmon and Ralph Waite, with a statement dedicating the episode to him.

I'm gonna go watch the NCIS: LA finale and hope that the Denzi fluff will make me feel better. And if THAT doesn't work, I'm gonna have to move on to either Person of Interest or Criminal Minds. Because if I can't have fluff, then spies and murderers are going to have to do the trick.
Heath
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Thu 5 Jun 2014
at 20:00
  • msg #380

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

In reply to Bart (msg # 378):

I liked the new Godzilla and was almost sad when it ended.  It sticks more to the classic story of not knowing if Godzilla is a friend or foe.  There were three total monsters, not just Godzilla, which was much more along the classic lines.  There were some good 3D moments too.  They could have made me care more about the characters though.

X-Men was also worth watching, with some interesting 3D moments during the time travel bits.


As to theaters, to me watching movies made for the big screen at home is like skipping a concert of your favorite band to listen to them on CD.  Not the same experience, not the intended experience, and not as good of an experience.  But for me, the money is not an issue.
Taz
player, 79 posts
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in the oddest of things
Fri 15 Aug 2014
at 16:58
  • msg #381

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Not much for Media, and I can't think of any fiction at the moment.
jioan
player, 5723 posts
Sat 4 Jul 2015
at 23:54
  • msg #382

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Everyone should watch Black Mirror.  It's essentially a modern Twilight Zone.
jioan
player, 5952 posts
Sun 19 Jul 2015
at 21:44
  • msg #383

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Anyone else see Ant-man yet?
Heath
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Mon 20 Jul 2015
at 16:24
  • msg #384

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

In reply to jioan (msg # 382):

I wish there were more episodes.  I saw them last year.  I like the one about the murderer punishment best.

As to Ant-man, No, and don't give me any spoilers please.
jioan
player, 5971 posts
Mon 20 Jul 2015
at 17:53
  • msg #385

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Did you watch the Black Mirror Christmas special from last year?  It isn't on Netflix, but it's a frame story with related short stories being told.

My favorite episode was Fifteen Million Demerits.  I think it dealt with the more serious and longterm effects these technologies could have on us than any of the others while having a great plot.
Heath
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Mon 20 Jul 2015
at 18:57
  • msg #386

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I liked that one too, but it's my third favorite.  My second favorite was the one with the dead husband, though it's hook seemed somewhat similar to the Johnny Depp movie Transcendence.

I've only seen the ones on Netflix.
jioan
player, 5977 posts
Mon 20 Jul 2015
at 20:22
  • msg #387

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Huh, that one was also my second favorite.  My third favorite was the one of the Grains that recorded all of their memories.  The ending was a bit anti-climatic but other than that I think it did a great job like the one with the dead husband of showing how this seemingly great technology can prevent us from moving on.  You should watch the Christmas episode sometime and you can find it online fairly easily although not through means as legal as Netflix.
Heath
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Tue 21 Jul 2015
at 16:41
  • msg #388

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

The memory recording one was good too.  They were all pretty good.  The first one in the series was the only one that I thought was less than optimal.  It was just dark.
jioan
player, 6001 posts
Tue 21 Jul 2015
at 17:04
  • msg #389

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I liked the first one although it doesn't have any real sci-fi elements to it.  The only one I was really disappointed with was the one with the blue cartoon avatar.  I feel like it didn't really dig much into how these virtual representations are all illusions and how they can be used as icons to manipulate.  It seemed like a prologue to a more interesting story.  It reminded me of a story from Grant Morrison's run on Action Comics about a world where the concept of Superman gets used by corporations to essentially control the world.
Heath
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Tue 21 Jul 2015
at 21:14
  • msg #390

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I had forgotten about that one.  Yeah, I agree, that was the worst.  The first one felt more like a very dark drama, like you said, and not a Twilight Zone type of idea.  It wasn't bad, but it wasn't representative of the series and not the best one to use as the first episode to introduce audiences to the series.
jioan
player, 6006 posts
Tue 21 Jul 2015
at 21:23
  • msg #391

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I agree, I tell people to skip it and go back later if they're interested in the series.  I'm just so glad that there's still a high quality anthology series out there.  Almost all of modern television is procedural or serialized.
Heath
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Tue 21 Jul 2015
at 21:31
  • msg #392

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Except for Keeping up with the Kardashians!  :) Just joking.
jioan
player, 6009 posts
Tue 21 Jul 2015
at 22:16
  • msg #393

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Oof, I wish you hadn't reminded me that exists.  My brain doesn't seem to categorize scripted and unscripted television as even remotely similar, and I usually just pretend reality tv doesn't exist.
ChupaBob
player, 33 posts
Wed 22 Jul 2015
at 09:13
  • msg #394

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

The new Netflix original series Sense8 was created by JMS and the Wachoskis. It has a wonderful cast and some of the best trailers around trading it. I recently watched the entire series. I found it to be good but not in any of the ways that we would normally count a television show as good. I despised some parts, like the show's opening sequence, but other parts were deeply enjoyed. Being as the show doors not give itself a content rating, Netflix really should have put up some sort of warning; I almost made the mistake of playing this show in the background while my nieces and nephews were visiting. I watch a lot of freaky porn, but Sense8 has the honest to gosh strangest sex scene that I have encountered in all of my forty years. Anyway, I wrote a longer and more thorough blog review of the show. I offered to write individual reviews of each episode, but none of my readers seemed to have any interest in even what I already wrote. I saw mention earlier of watching Netflix, so I am wondering of anyone here has given Sense8 a try.
jioan
player, 6015 posts
Wed 22 Jul 2015
at 13:34
  • msg #395

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Kagura said she liked it in another thread, but I haven't seen it yet although it's on my list of things to watch eventually.
Heath
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Wed 22 Jul 2015
at 16:33
  • msg #396

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

jioan:
Oof, I wish you hadn't reminded me that exists.  My brain doesn't seem to categorize scripted and unscripted television as even remotely similar, and I usually just pretend reality tv doesn't exist.

Talk about denying reality!  :)
Kagura
player, 18701 posts
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Wed 22 Jul 2015
at 20:24
  • msg #397

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

jioan:
Kagura said she liked it in another thread, but I haven't seen it yet although it's on my list of things to watch eventually.


Yep, my sister, firelizardkimi, watched it, and I saw a bunch of stuff about it on Tumblr so I decided to watch it too. I definitely enjoyed it immensely. I really really want a second season because I want to know what's going to happen with Will and Riley, and if the rest of the cluster are safe from Shadows and I want backstory on Shadows and Jonas and I want to know what game Jonas is playing with the main cluster and Shadows...

But I also would be okay if they ended it where it ended. There's always fan fiction for the sequels...
jioan
player, 6024 posts
Thu 23 Jul 2015
at 06:34
  • msg #398

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Is there really much of a Sense8 fan fiction community?
Kagura
player, 18703 posts
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Thu 23 Jul 2015
at 20:52
  • msg #399

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

There is! AO3 has about 300 stories. FF.net has fewer at only 53 (currently). AO3 is generally considered to host higher-quality works compared to ff.net though. This is keeping in mind that the Sense8 series is very new, and aired on a non-cable platform, plus the fact that it is intellectual, fantasy, and touches on pretty much every single SJ topic there is.

So while there may not be 1,685,902 works, there are a healthy number for a show if its age and niche audience.
jioan
player, 6031 posts
Thu 23 Jul 2015
at 22:35
  • msg #400

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Wow.  300+ stories is far more than I though there would be considering how recent it is.  There's bound to be some good stuff in there.
ChupaBob
player, 42 posts
Fri 24 Jul 2015
at 03:08
  • msg #401

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Regarding Sense8:
I am genuinely surprised to learn that there are so many fan fics already.

I have a question about procedure. Should we move this conversation to the thread entitled "Spoilers" or continue it here? Where does it better fit?
jioan
player, 6041 posts
Fri 24 Jul 2015
at 04:29
  • msg #402

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Only if we're discussing the precise contents of the show should it move over there.  However, we're rarely strict about what type of conversation belongs where.
Kagura
player, 18710 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Fri 24 Jul 2015
at 20:06
  • msg #403

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Yeah, we're not huge on procedure here in ASWoT... except for when people forget which game they're playing and go off target. Then we mock them (within the rules of the game) for a few posts before moving on with our lives. All in good fun, of course.
Heath
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Fri 24 Jul 2015
at 20:28
  • msg #404

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Am I the only one who really enjoyed Terminator: Genisys?  It wasn't Shakespeare, but I loved all the nods to the first two movies, and the action and twists were workable.  Wasn't the best movie ever, but definitely the best since the second one.  How it paid homage to the first two really made it appeal to me.

Of course, I'm also a big fan of Back to the Future II, which has a similar convoluted time travel storyline.
Kagura
player, 18711 posts
Mostly Human
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Fri 24 Jul 2015
at 21:06
  • msg #405

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Can't say it really crossed my radar, having not seen the other Terminator movies.

Ant-Man is the next live action movie on my list.
Heath
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Fri 24 Jul 2015
at 23:59
  • msg #406

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

You haven't seen the terminator movies!?!?!?!  The first two are classics.  Granted, the new one won't make nearly as much sense or be as much fun if you haven't seen those two first.
jioan
player, 6049 posts
Sat 25 Jul 2015
at 03:03
  • msg #407

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

The first two Terminator movies are great!  I haven't sen Genysis yet, but I probably will once it's on DVD/Blu-Ray.  I personally think the two seasons of the Sarah Conner chronicles are the best thing the franchise has produced since T2.  The third and fourth movies are painful for me to watch.
jioan
player, 6420 posts
Sat 12 Sep 2015
at 00:54
  • msg #408

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Hey, this is a list I'm working on Fantasy books/series that someone should have read at least some of in order to be considered well read in the fantasy genre.  I was hoping some of you could suggest books to be added or removed.  Note that these are not necessarily the best books or the most popular ones but based more on how influential they were.


Minimum works to be read (Series dated by first volume):
50s:    Lord of the Rings
Chronicles of Narnia

60s: Wizard of Earthsea
The Last Unicorn

70s: The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (First Chronicles)
Neverending Story

80s: The Dark Tower
Discworld
Seventh Son
The Belgeriad
Legend

90s: Wheel of Time
A Song of Ice and Fire
Assassin's Apprentice
Stardust/Neverwhere
Malazan: Book of the Fallen
Harry Potter

00s: Kingkiller Chroicles
The Cosmere (Stormlight Archive, Mistborn, etc.)
Dresden Files
Gentleman's Bastard
American Gods
The First Law

10s: **Not final but for now:
Lightbringer?
City of Stairs?
Kagura
player, 18802 posts
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Sun 13 Sep 2015
at 06:54
  • msg #409

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I don't know if I'd call Kingkiller, Gentlemen Bastards or Cosmere "influential". Good series, yes, absolutely, but far too niche to count as influential, I think.

Of course, that depends on how you're defining it, I suppose.
jioan
player, 6421 posts
Sun 13 Sep 2015
at 22:50
  • msg #410

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

They're too new to tell for sure, but I think they're very high quality and popular examples of distinct types of fantasy differing from the norm.  In particular I think the Cosmere books are pioneering a whole different type of worldbuilding for high fantasy that I think is already becoming very popular.  A few rules heavy non-Tolkien worlds have existed before, but they've never taken on such unique and fully realized forms as Scadriel or Roshar.  Kingkiller is mostly on there because I think it stands out as extremely noticeable example of a return to a more classical fantasy setting and storyline when very dark low fantasy seems overwhelmingly popular.  I'd take it off if there isn't a resurgence in that type of material following its completion.  Gentleman's Bastard feels like a whole different breed of fantasy to me, but I don't know how influential it will end up becoming considering the ending is a decade off or so.
ChupaBob
player, 126 posts
Mon 14 Sep 2015
at 04:35
  • msg #411

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I will freely admit that I have not even heard of a lot of these.

Would The Inheritance Cycle by Christopher Paolini count? I would call these books influential because they repopularized a fading genre for new readers.

While I am at it, I will abuse the opportunity and give a shout-out to my wife's young adult novel series, the Crystal Garden Saga:  http://www.amazon.com/Frozen-R...n-Saga/dp/0988195127
jioan
player, 6424 posts
Mon 14 Sep 2015
at 04:50
  • msg #412

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

While the Inheritance Cycle was popular among young readers for a few years I don't think it's significant enough to go on the list.  It doesn't do much of anything unique and seems like it happened to hit the market at just the right time and was marketed well enough that it got as popular as it did.  That said, if I was making a list specifically for children's fantasy I might have included it just for not being on Earth when so many popular children's books at the time went for the parallel Earth route a la Harry Potter.
Heath
GM, 18171 posts
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Mon 14 Sep 2015
at 17:44
  • msg #413

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I would add the Shannara trilogy from the 70s, as well as the Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (which in many ways are superior to the original trilogy as far as revolutionizing the genre).

I think you should go back decades earlier and add the Conan books too.  Those were my bread and butter in the 70s, though they came out in the 30s or so.  They were influential on several levels.

I would also add some of the Dragonlance books and a Dryzzt book or two.  They brought the roleplaying genre and D&D to the novel realm as far as accessibility and new worlds.

Some of those books I haven't even heard of, and I've been around a long time.  That makes me think they are not influential, even though they may be very good reads.
Heath
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Mon 14 Sep 2015
at 17:53
  • msg #414

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Also, if you're going for fantasy that is not limited to medieval type fantasy, I would add:

Xanth series and Incarnations of Immortality books by Piers Anthony.  (His Apprentice Adept series was also revolutionary by going between a science fiction world and a medieval fantasy world throughout the series.)

The Changewinds series by Jack L. Chalker

The Practice Effect by David Brinn (which is both fantasy and science fiction)

As far as comedy fantasy, the Robert Asprin "Myth" series was popular and iconic in the 80s.

Back in the 70s and 80s, it seems like you couldn't turn a corner without someone reading something from Shannara, Xanth, "Myth," or Thomas Covenant.
jioan
player, 6426 posts
Mon 14 Sep 2015
at 19:38
  • msg #415

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I've considered adding the Drizzt books to represent the D&D style adventures of fantasy but didn't because Wheel of Time seemed to hit on a similar style of writing while essentially inventing the epic length saga for fantasy.

I decided to start the list with Lord of the Rings as the foundation for modern fantasy.  I could go back and include Conan but then I'd feel obligated to go back farther and include all of the pulp stuff or even farther to include all of the pre-Tolkien British fantasy.  It's not a perfect starting place, but I think it's the best for this list.

I haven't read beyond the First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant so I'll take your word for it and adjust the entry to include the entire Thomas Covenant metaseries.  I'll have to read the Second Chronicles sometime to see for myself.

Shannara should be on the list!  I thought it was already on there but I must have forgotten about it when typing up the post.  I'm not sure whether to limit it to the original trilogy or not, but I'll just leave it on the inclusive side for now.

I haven't read any of the other series you've mentioned, but I'll definitely look into them and see if they deserve a spot.

Minimum works to be read (Series dated by first volume):
50s:    Lord of the Rings
Chronicles of Narnia

60s: Wizard of Earthsea
The Last Unicorn

70s: The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant
Neverending Story
Shannara

80s: The Dark Tower
Discworld
Seventh Son
The Belgeriad
Legend

90s: Wheel of Time
A Song of Ice and Fire
Assassin's Apprentice
Stardust/Neverwhere
Malazan: Book of the Fallen
Harry Potter

00s: Kingkiller Chroicles
The Cosmere (Stormlight Archive, Mistborn, etc.)
Dresden Files
Gentleman's Bastard
American Gods
The First Law

10s: **Not final but for now:
Lightbringer?
City of Stairs?
Heath
GM, 18173 posts
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Mon 14 Sep 2015
at 20:07
  • msg #416

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

If you are looking for iconic, groundbreaking works that defined the genre, I would go with:

Conan (medieval/pulp icon)

Lord of the Rings (iconic fantasy canon)

Narnia (iconic children's fantasy)

Chronicles of Prydain (classic children fantasy)

Shannara (revolutionized fantasy and brought it mainstream)

Thomas Covenant (dark fantasy/antihero, world making (especially second series))

Belgariad (reinventing the idea of magic source and quest adventure)

"MythAdventure" series (low brow humor)

"Discworld" series (clever humor)

Xanth (humor, pun, classic fantasy)

Dragonlance and/or Dryzzt (roleplaying fusion)

Changewind series (sociological identity experiment fusion with fantasy)

Harry Potter (modern fantasy)

A Song of Ice and Fire (brutal fantasy)


I was tempted to put in here "Guardians of the Flame" series, but many of you probably don't know it and it's probably not revolutionary per se.  It was the first series where players of a D&D type of game transported into the bodies of their characters in the fantastic land and then had to figure out a way to get back to earth.

The Incarnations of Immortality spawned 7 books, but I'm not sure it is fantasy per se, though it has very original ideas.  Same with Apprentice Adept series.

I don't think "Wheel of Time" merits mention.  It is a long, sprawling saga (like the Dragonriders series by McCaffrey) that really can be experienced through a Wikipedia entry better than reading it--IMHO.
jioan
player, 6427 posts
Mon 14 Sep 2015
at 20:34
  • msg #417

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Changewind sounds really interesting.  I'll have to add it to my list of things to read.

While The Wheel of Time is far from the best written series on the list I think you're being unappreciative of how it shaped the genre.  The Dragonriders books were a couple of trilogies that told primarily independent stories set in the same world.  McCaffrey later went on to write many other books in this world but this is very different from what Robert Jordan did.  The Wheel of Time told a single story that kept building from novel to novel.  So while R.A. Salvatore generally constructed the Drizzt books as successive trilogies Wheel of Time was one story where the books served essentially as really long chapters.  No one had ever written fantasy at this length before but it proved popular enough to allow several other seemingly endless series to enter the market.  A few other series such as Malazan, A Song of Ice and Fire, and the Stormlight Archive would be published later but unless I am mistaken Wheel of Time did it first and the longest.
Heath
GM, 18174 posts
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Mon 14 Sep 2015
at 20:49
  • msg #418

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Honestly, I could never make it through Wheel of Time.  I found it boring and presumptuous.  To tell someone they must read that neverending saga if they want to really appreciate fantasy fiction is sadistic.  :)

It is one of those series that people either love or hate, and proves that the first to do something isn't necessarily the best.  Game of Thrones did it better and in a far more compelling manner.  If you don't know anything about Wheel of Time, you can do just fine with other fantasy literature--not so much LOTR, Narnia, Shannara, or Harry Potter, to name a few.  But Wheel of Time is essentially soap opera for fantasy.

Along with the Twilight series (also very popular), it frequently ranks among the worst fantasy series ever written.  The Inheritance Cycle probably also belongs in this group.  Though popular, it did nothing for the genre in the long run.

Another series is the Book of Lost Swords.  I have not read it, but I have friends who have, and I wonder if it should be added to the "good" list.
jioan
player, 6428 posts
Tue 15 Sep 2015
at 04:45
  • msg #419

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I also see The Wheel of Time commonly ranked among the best fantasy books of all time although I personally wouldn't put it up there.  It's like a soap opera in that it is overly dramatic and often uses convoluted plot twists but unlike them it serves as a complete work.  It is really just one story told over fourteen very long parts.  That sort of plotting was the first of its kind.  I'm also not a huge fan of the Belgariad but it's on the list for the influence David Eddings had on the genre.
Heath
GM, 18175 posts
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Tue 15 Sep 2015
at 18:18
  • msg #420

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I agree with the Belgariad.  I read the series but was not impressed.  But it did revolutionize the genre, and its story and idea about how magic works were iconic in the 80s.  Anyone wanting to be "in the know" in fantasy should have read it.

I know what you're saying about Wheel of Time--people love it or hate it.  I'm just saying that if your goal is to tell someone what they HAVE TO READ to be "in the know" regarding fantasy, that really doesn't need to be included.  All my friends who are really into fantasy couldn't make it through the series, except that one of them has a brother who loves it.  Not having read that series won't put anyone at a disadvantage in any way, shape or form (except at a Robert Jordan convention). ;)

Now, if your point is to list the best fantasy books/series, that's actually a different point entirely, and several of these series would be omitted (such as maybe Belgariad, though teenagers love it, and MythAdventures, if you don't like that kind of humor, and maybe Conan because it is a bit dated now).  Similarly, other books/series that I left out, I would include.  It's just a different issue.  Iconic works are not always the best works.
Heath
GM, 18176 posts
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Tue 15 Sep 2015
at 18:51
  • msg #421

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

You have an interesting topic here.  The flaw I see is that there is no limitation.  We could go on and on.  If instead you said, "What are the top 10 books/series someone should be familiar with to say they are knowledgeable about fantasy?" then I think we have something to work with.  In that case, I would list:

1) Conan (medieval/pulp icon)
2) Lord of the Rings (iconic fantasy canon)
3) Narnia (iconic children's fantasy)
4) Chronicles of Prydain (classic children fantasy)
5) Shannara (revolutionized fantasy and brought it mainstream)
6) Thomas Covenant (dark fantasy/antihero, world making (especially second series))
7) "Discworld" series (clever humor)
8) Xanth (humor, pun, classic fantasy)
9) Harry Potter (modern fantasy)
10) A Song of Ice and Fire (brutal fantasy)

Not that they have to have read every book, but should have read some of each at least.
jioan
player, 6429 posts
Wed 16 Sep 2015
at 01:47
  • msg #422

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I agree with only reading some of it being required.  Some of these are extremely lengthy metaseries with dozens of books.

I guess if I had to limit it to ten my list would be:

1. Lord of the Rings
2. Chronicles of Narnia
3. Wizard of Earthsea
4. Discworld
5. Wheel of Time
6. A Song of Ice and Fire
7. Harry Potter
8. Dresden Files
9. American Gods
10. Cosmere

I had difficulty cutting Thomas Covenant and Malazan, but I think familiarity with what made it onto the list is even more important.
Kagura
player, 18803 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Wed 16 Sep 2015
at 04:04
  • msg #423

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

jioan:
I also see The Wheel of Time commonly ranked among the best fantasy books of all time although I personally wouldn't put it up there.  It's like a soap opera in that it is overly dramatic and often uses convoluted plot twists but unlike them it serves as a complete work.  It is really just one story told over fourteen very long parts.  That sort of plotting was the first of its kind.


There's a very good reason that they got Brandon Sanderson to finish the series when the original author died...
jioan
player, 6430 posts
Wed 16 Sep 2015
at 22:50
  • msg #424

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Brandon did have to do a lot of work but the main outline was already set in stone by Robert Jordan.  Many sections including the very last part of the final book were already written by Jordan before he passed.
Kagura
player, 18804 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Fri 18 Sep 2015
at 01:36
  • msg #425

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Right, but what I'm saying is that Sanderson specializes in taking numerous, seemingly disparate plot points and story threads (the "drama" and "convoluted twists"), and weaving them together into something coherent and interesting to read with a definitive ending. WoT had gotten so far out of hand (originally it was only supposed to be like, 5 books or something like that, but the story kind of got away from Jordan) that it essentially needed Sanderson's particular style to finish in the number of books allotted by the publisher.
jioan
player, 6431 posts
Fri 18 Sep 2015
at 05:52
  • msg #426

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

He did do a very good job with it, but it's funny because the publishers only wanted him to write one book but he ended up saying it would take three to end it satisfactorily.
Kagura
player, 18805 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Sat 19 Sep 2015
at 00:29
  • msg #427

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Hey, he knows what he's talking about. Honestly the publishers should thank the Sanderson Avalanche that he was able to finish it up that quickly.

I'm thankful he's done with it because that means that he could go back to writing his original works... like the Stormlight Archive, the Reckoners, and possibly eventually the sequel to The Rithmatist that he's been promising for AGES.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:29, Sat 19 Sept 2015.
jioan
player, 6433 posts
Sat 19 Sep 2015
at 03:19
  • msg #428

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Yeah, I'm looking forward to that too.  He said it was taking awhile because he was doing a lot of research on Aztecs for it, and he wanted to get it right.
Heath
GM, 18177 posts
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Mon 21 Sep 2015
at 17:10
  • msg #429

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Is that Brandon Sanderson who wrote Mistborn?  I'm reading the Mistborn series right now.  Didn't know he finished up Wheel of Time.
jioan
player, 6436 posts
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 01:40
  • msg #430

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Yes, it's the same guy.  He writes very quickly considering the length of many of his novels.
firelizardkimi
GM, 2483 posts
Gravity is a myth.
The Earth sucks.
Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 05:04
  • msg #431

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Not quickly enough, imho. I NEED MORE SANDERSON.
Heath
GM, 18178 posts
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Tue 22 Sep 2015
at 17:42
  • msg #432

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I just looked him up.  We share the same alma mater.  He was studying his bachelor's while I was in law school there.  It's possible we met.  In any case, I'm sure we studied creative writing with the same professor -- Marion "Doc" Smith.  (His focus is science fiction and fantasy writing, so anyone with any interest in that genre and writing has taken a scifi/fantasy creative writing class from him there.  I took it twice myself.)
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:44, Tue 22 Sept 2015.
ChupaBob
player, 131 posts
Wed 23 Sep 2015
at 05:01
  • msg #433

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

In reply to Heath (msg # 414):

Funny story regarding the Myth Series: I and my kid brother had both read these books when we were much younger. We shared some fond memories of them. For some reason, I ended up discussing these books with an older friend just recently. My friend of some twenty years was a little surprised to hear the name Robert Asprin. I confirmed it, and said that I particularly enjoyed the silly book, Myth Inc. Link. My friend said, "Oh good, I'll have to tell that to Robert the next time I speak with him." It turned out that these guys knew each other from ren faire days.
Heath
GM, 18179 posts
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Wed 23 Sep 2015
at 17:47
  • msg #434

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Except that Asprin died a few years back...

Here's a link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Asprin
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:48, Wed 23 Sept 2015.
ChupaBob
player, 133 posts
Fri 25 Sep 2015
at 03:34
  • msg #435

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

That article is nicely thorough. I was surprised to see mention of his S.C.A. nickname, Yang the Nauseating.

I have always been hesitant about reading the Phule's Company series. Has anyone here read any of those books?
Heath
GM, 18180 posts
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Fri 25 Sep 2015
at 16:59
  • msg #436

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Yes.  They are a similar style of story to the MYTH series but with a science fiction genre.  If you like MYTH, you'd like it.  Frankly, my son has read more of them than I have.

You can also get a compilation of a number of the MYTH books.  They compiled them into "volumes," which I recommend if you haven't read them before.
http://www.amazon.com/Robert-A...ords=myth+inc+asprin

Not sure if it's out of print now.  I bought the compilation when it first came out.
FourLegged
GM, 41506 posts
Quadruped Phascolarctos
Cinereus Unsquisheus
Fri 25 Dec 2015
at 08:20
  • msg #437

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Heath:
Except that Asprin died a few years back...

Here's a link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Asprin


I was wondering why he hadn't been writing in a while.
Now I am a sad koala.
Heath
GM, 18208 posts
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Wed 30 Dec 2015
at 17:40
  • msg #438

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Yes, I was similarly saddened when Douglas Adams and Jack L. Chalker died.
FourLegged
GM, 41579 posts
Quadruped Phascolarctos
Cinereus Unsquisheus
Wed 30 Dec 2015
at 17:43
  • msg #439

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

There should be a law against letting good authors die.

On the other hand, once they stop being so good...
Heath
GM, 18211 posts
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Wed 30 Dec 2015
at 17:44
  • msg #440

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Bad authors shouldn't die either; they should just fade away.
Nyoze
player, 234 posts
Tue 12 Jan 2016
at 04:45
  • msg #441

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I haven't read half of these...

I always thought I was a fan of Fantasy to... I guess maybe not.
Bart
player, 12640 posts
Everywhere in the world,
you find good things.
Thu 11 Feb 2016
at 05:30
  • msg #442

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I really liked how Brandon Sanderson wrapped up the Wheel of Time series.
Kagura
player, 19188 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Thu 11 Feb 2016
at 06:01
  • msg #443

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

He had all of Robert Jordan's notes on what he'd planned to do with the series, and Sanderson himself is rather skilled at bringing together many many seemingly disparate plot points into a cascading coherent conclusion.
jioan
player, 6642 posts
Sat 8 Jul 2017
at 22:31
  • msg #444

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Speaking of Brandon anyone else excited for the new Stormlight Archive book?  Apparently it's even longer than the second one!
FourLegged
GM, 41882 posts
Quadruped Phascolarctos
Cinereus Unsquisheus
Sat 9 Sep 2017
at 23:38
  • msg #445

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

It's amazing how many horror themes/tropes/cliches had origins in Lovecraft's works
jioan
player, 6669 posts
Wed 22 Nov 2017
at 16:11
  • msg #446

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

The new Stormlight book is now out, and it lived up the hype for me.
Grant
GM, 7403 posts
HOLY CRAP!!!
ITS SEAN CONNERY!!!
Sat 10 Feb 2018
at 13:14
  • msg #447

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I can't really remember what the point of this game is either...
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:14, Sat 10 Feb 2018.
Froggychum
player, 56 posts
Sat 10 Feb 2018
at 16:35
  • msg #448

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

this should just be collapsed into the timewasters lounge, i don't understand why we need multiple discussion threads
Grant
GM, 7419 posts
HOLY CRAP!!!
ITS SEAN CONNERY!!!
Sat 10 Feb 2018
at 16:37
  • msg #449

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Yeah, I don't know either...
Froggychum
player, 79 posts
Sat 10 Feb 2018
at 16:59
  • msg #450

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

post because i have decided to steal your crown!
Grant
GM, 7435 posts
HOLY CRAP!!!
ITS SEAN CONNERY!!!
Sun 11 Feb 2018
at 07:30
  • msg #451

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I think they might have used it to unclutter the main lounge. But that's not really a problem anymore.
Froggychum
player, 88 posts
Sun 11 Feb 2018
at 15:24
  • msg #452

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

^ agree
Tanner
player, 348 posts
Wait... you mean the
green goop isn't edible?
Sat 12 May 2018
at 20:12
  • msg #453

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

HIATUS VOTE SHALL BE CAST!
Froggychum
player, 266 posts
Sun 13 May 2018
at 15:52
  • msg #454

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

froggo votes YES
FourLegged
GM, 41989 posts
Quadruped Phascolarctos
Cinereus Unsquisheus
Sat 7 Sep 2019
at 19:02
  • msg #455

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Yes
Heath
GM, 18350 posts
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Wed 15 Apr 2020
at 07:22
  • msg #456

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I rebuke ye who say this should be part of the main lounge. This is to discuss fiction specifically and other things that are only important in imaginations...

The lounge is for lounging.
Froggychum
player, 1383 posts
Mon 27 Dec 2021
at 17:08
  • msg #457

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Looks like this thread is pretty much dead?
Heath
GM, 18936 posts
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Sat 12 Feb 2022
at 06:54
  • msg #458

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I got excited to see a post here!

...and then I read the post. Sad day.
The Fool on the Hill
player, 1084 posts
Thu 26 Oct 2023
at 22:32
  • msg #459

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

FourLegged:
It's amazing how many horror themes/tropes/cliches had origins in Lovecraft's works

Lovecraft also went into space sci-fi in The Doors of Eryx, with astronauts adventuring on a swampy planet far away and lizard-like aliens...
This message was last edited by the player at 22:33, Thu 26 Oct 2023.
Snakesssz
player, 17895 posts
Fri 3 Nov 2023
at 02:45
  • msg #460

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I'd be more interested in snake-like aliens.  Any of those?
Heath
GM, 19092 posts
Enigma Codebreaker &
Conundrum Decipherer
Sun 12 Nov 2023
at 11:17
  • msg #461

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Probably not. There's the whole opposable thumb problem...or any thumbs...or hands...or arms, for that matter...
...but lizards from space; I'm sure there's plenty of that, and not just from V. I am old enough to have watched V when it premiered in 1984 (including Robert Englund in his pre-Freddie days), and it was shockingly good to my teenaged self, but much dated now.

EDIT: Also, Marc Singer (protagonist on V) was my favorite action hero until Schwarzeneggar came around as the Terminator. I mean, Beastmaster...classic.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:18, Sun 12 Nov 2023.
The Fool on the Hill
player, 1107 posts
Sun 19 Nov 2023
at 16:41
  • msg #462

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Froggychum
editor, 1933 posts
Sat 25 Nov 2023
at 12:43
  • msg #463

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Snake aliens sound kinda hot ngl
The Fool on the Hill
player, 1132 posts
Sun 3 Dec 2023
at 22:06
  • msg #464

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I think that the lizard ones are preferred as it is easier to have actors impersonating them.
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