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16:04, 27th April 2024 (GMT+0)

Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia.

Posted by HeathFor group 0
Heath
GM, 15499 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Tue 10 May 2011
at 17:47
  • msg #40

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I agree to some extent.  The next two books were pretty good originality wise but not quite as action packed.  The first book with Bean as protagonist was really good if you liked Ender's Game because it goes through the same events with a whole new twist and viewpoint.
Heath
GM, 15500 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Tue 10 May 2011
at 17:52
  • msg #41

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Stephen R. Donaldson is an unsung hero because his books are now older, but he pioneered an anti-hero from our world going into a fantasy world and doing...well, stupid things...because he didn't believe it really existed.  And then he comes to believe and become a hero.

Donaldson's science fiction series is also extraordinary.  Especially starting about halfway through the second book.  The action gets so intense it's hard to put down until the end of the series.  I really liked his singularity bomb idea and the method of creating a type of superhuman/supersoldier by controlling the brain, making the person (in this case, a murderer) a slave.  Definitely not a series for kids, though.  And the aliens remind me a little of the Borg from Star Trek, but creepier.
Remi LeBeau
player, 315 posts
Laissez les bon temps
rouler mes amis!
Tue 10 May 2011
at 20:53
  • msg #42

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Creepier than the Borg... oh nice.  I adore the Borg as villains.
Kagura
player, 13541 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Tue 10 May 2011
at 21:27
  • msg #43

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Heath:
The first book with Bean as protagonist was really good if you liked Ender's Game because it goes through the same events with a whole new twist and viewpoint.


Ender's Shadow. Yeah. I liked Game and Shadow the best. The rest not so much... although I thought Speaker for the Dead was okay.
Heath
GM, 15505 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Tue 10 May 2011
at 21:30
  • msg #44

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia


Here's from the Wikipedia about the aliens, though it doesn't really do the book justice:
quote:
Nick takes Morn to Enablement Station, a space station in alien-influenced space. The aliens are known as the Amnion and are masters of genetic manipulation. Where humans control space through physical, military and political means, the Amnion gain control by genetic methods — mutating non-Amnion life-forms into Amnioni. Only the technological and military might of the UMCP keeps them at bay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gap_Cycle
jioan
player, 2919 posts
Wed 1 Jun 2011
at 12:58
  • msg #45

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

I recently obtained two Neil Gaiman books I had never gotten around to reading before.  I was wondering if anyone who has read them thinks I should start with Stardust or Anansi Boys?
jioan
player, 3636 posts
Tue 28 Jun 2011
at 13:34
  • msg #46

Re: Fiction Shmiction and Media Shmedia

Has anyone ever read Scott Pilgrim.  I've never seen the movie, but a friend of mine recommended the comics and is letting me borrow them.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:01, Wed 29 June 2011.
Heath
GM, 15657 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Thu 30 Jun 2011
at 17:47
  • msg #47

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire

jioan:
A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones is book 1) is my favorite book series and I suggest you go read it as soon as you can. If you want to get into the series I highly suggest reading the series first because the books have so far been better than the series.  (Although the show is good.  It just spoils the plot in the books.)

Tyrion Lannister is the name of the dwarf by the way and he is being played by Peter Dinklage.

Okay, so now I'm almost done with the first book (Game of Thrones), and as far as I can see, the HBO series follows the plot very closely.  It helps, I guess, that the screenplay is written by the author.  Although, of course, the HBO version is much more explicit and not for kids.

But it's not a fantasy book where I necessarily have these grandiose visions in my head that are ruined by watching the show, unlike perhaps Tolkien's works.  The books are almost more medieval drama than fantasy, with a few exceptions of course.
jioan
player, 3672 posts
Tue 5 Jul 2011
at 12:37
  • msg #48

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire

More fantasy elements continue to enter the series as it continues.  They tend to appear as divine intervention or miracles, but there are several supernatural creatures and peoples introduced as well as groups that appear to use arcane magic.
Vixcis
player, 4463 posts
Oh so evil
yet oh so sexy too
Tue 5 Jul 2011
at 20:23
  • msg #49

Re: A Song of Ice and Fire

The Parasol Protectorate series by Gail Carriger is too die for!!!
jioan
player, 3700 posts
Wed 13 Jul 2011
at 18:13
  • msg #50

MOPI

I discovered and read the science fiction novella The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect a couple years ago, and I'm currently rereading it.  The full story can be found here to read for free:

http://www.kuro5hin.org/prime-intellect/mopiidx.html

The story is an interesting look at the Singularity and one the most extreme possible outcomes of it.  It's also refreshing because the AI doesn't betray its programming and try to kill people.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:15, Wed 13 July 2011.
Discreet
player, 2298 posts
Mon 25 Jul 2011
at 19:25
  • msg #51

Re: MOPI

Most of the fiction I read recently is from boards or side panels in phbs. But I enjoy an occasional graphic novel, like the Sandman, Mouseguard
jioan
player, 3739 posts
Tue 26 Jul 2011
at 04:39
  • msg #52

Re: MOPI

Sandman is awesome!

I find it interesting that they were part of DCU canon but Gaiman stopped DC from using his characters after he finished Sandman.
REkzkaRZ
player, 10 posts
Mon 22 Aug 2011
at 18:49
  • msg #53

Re: MOPI

"They Live" - I love this B-movie, it's a solid 10.  Why?
  1. John Carpenter directed this scifi B-movie ultra-conspiracy underground classic.
  2. Rowdy Roddy Piper (the wrestler) is the lead actor discovering aliens have secretly taken control of the world.  (Why didn't he get more movie roles after this?!?!)
  3. The dialogue is off-the-charts great.
  4. The effects are cheesy B-movie which is perfectly fine for this film.
  5. There's an extended wrestling fight scene.
  6. Gets better over time.
  7. The ending scene (I don't want to spoil it).

Heath
GM, 15791 posts
Nyuk, nyuk!
Why, I oughta...
Mon 22 Aug 2011
at 19:24
  • msg #54

Re: MOPI

That's definitely a classic.  Longest fight scene (between friends?) in the history of movies, I think.
Kagura
player, 14030 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Mon 22 Aug 2011
at 22:13
  • msg #55

Re: MOPI

jioan:
I find it interesting that they were part of DCU canon but Gaiman stopped DC from using his characters after he finished Sandman.


That is because Neil Gaiman is brilliant. Just think about what they (DC) would be doing to those characters right now if he had allowed them to keep using them... *shudders at the mere thought*

Also, who else could write those characters so perfectly? Nobody, that's who.

*is a total Neil Gaiman fangirl*
REkzkaRZ
player, 15 posts
Tue 23 Aug 2011
at 07:43
  • msg #56

Re: MOPI

Can you recommend a good Neil Gaiman read?  I haven't found anything of his yet that lept out at me much.

I notice that DC's movies are lacking the style/panache of modern Marvel films, and are stuck in bad writing (and often bad action) -- just saw Green Lantern, was disappointing for the *horrible* writing.  CG was ok.

Hoping DC learns from Marvel's million $ blockbusters.
jioan
player, 3867 posts
Tue 23 Aug 2011
at 10:37
  • msg #57

Re: MOPI

I recommend American Gods and Neverwhere because those were the first books of his I read. (Although I read Sandman first.)

The issue with DC is that they lack consistency.  Many consider The Dark Knight to be the greatest superhero film of all time, but more recently Jonah Hex and Green Lantern have been half-hearted attempts at taking money from the preexisting fanbase.  Marvel, however, produces average to good movies on a regular basis with their last great movie imho being Ironman.  They also have continuity which will be very interesting to see if Avengers does well.
Kagura
player, 14035 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Tue 23 Aug 2011
at 12:50
  • msg #58

Re: MOPI

In reply to REkzkaRZ (msg #56):

Depends on what you've already read by him, and what you're interested in.

American Gods and Anansi Boys are both great if you're into mythology.

Neverwhere if you're familiar with London and are looking for a good modern fantasy read.

Stardust is where you should be if you're looking for a straight-up fairytale.

If you like Terry Pratchett and a humorous twist on the idea of the Anti-Christ and the Apocalypse, then you should look into Good Omens (co-written by Gaiman and Pratchett - I didn't like it that much, but then, I'm not a huge fan of Pratchett's writing style.)

There's also his short story anthologies, Smoke and Mirrors, and Fragile Things. I can't speak for Smoke and Mirrors having not read that one, but Fragile Things has some great stories in it, including one that is a cross between Sherlock Holmes and Cthulhu. I kid you not. It's amazing.

Finally, there is, of course, Sandman, but to be honest, that's a much different style of writing, mostly because it's a comic. Also, he wrote a couple of children's books, Coraline and The Graveyard Book, which I haven't read (although I did see Coraline the movie).

Oh, and one of the recent episodes of Doctor Who titled "The Doctor's Wife"... which was very much his style for all that it was a screenplay instead of a novel/short story...

Hope that helped!
REkzkaRZ
player, 17 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Wed 24 Aug 2011
at 07:40
  • msg #59

Re: MOPI

In reply to Kagura (msg #58):
Thanks!

Now to rant about Conan: sucked sucked sucked!  No redeeming features!  Horrible piece of crap, and insult to fantasy film fans, cinema in general, and Conan.  Another stupid Hollywood film that shows us the origin -- and gets it wrong completely -- in order to tell a story that has nothing to do with Conan!!

Bad dialogue, bad writing, bad cinematography, stupid monsters, bad acting, bad action scenes, bad plot.
Did I miss anything?!!?

The odds a gamer had anything to do with this film are ... low.

I don't know who thinks movies like this are sellable?!?  These kinds of movies are pathetic!

If they had done it as a deliberately funny / bad movie, so I could get a chuckle in once (besides at the scenes meant to be serious, that is), I'd be less upset.

So Arnold will be the best Conan?  Aaaaggghhhh!!!
Kagura
player, 14039 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Wed 24 Aug 2011
at 21:45
  • msg #60

The Hunger Games

jioan:
*HUNGER GAMES SPOILERS BELOW*

Everyone has been praising Hunger Games and perhaps for teen fiction it was good, but I found the whole book predictable.  The largest issue I had with the novel was was the illogical actions of the government and the gamemakers.  They could have easily chosen a winner and rigged the games.  (Those watching already thought it was rigged and expected one of the wealthier participants to win anyway.)  Instead they allowed the entire message they were trying to send to be reversed.  The victory of two companions from one of the poor towns proved that determination and cooperation can lead to victory over the government even at the worst odds.


I disagree with your assessment of the actions of the government and the gamemakers as "illogical". Consider that in 74 years of Hunger Games, what happened with Katniss and Peeta had NEVER happened before. One of the wealthier fiefs did win, fairly consistently. Choosing a winner would have defeated the purpose of the Games in the first place, the purpose being to remind the fiefs that their lives existed at the whims of the Capitol, and that EVEN the more wealthy fiefs could fall. Also keep in mind that by the time Katniss's story rolls around, kids have grown up understanding that there can only be one winner of the Hunger Games, and if they're chosen, then EVERYONE in that arena is their enemy, even the other kid from their fief. And that's what happened. 73 INDIVIDUALS won the Hunger Games.

But I'm rambling. The point I'm trying to make is that the actions of the government and the gamemakers were actually perfectly logical if you look at things from a point of view inside the world being created. It's a post-apocalyptic era where the entirety of a country is led by a president who is essentially a dictator trying to outlive his time. He may also be more than a little bit insane. The gamemakers are tasked with dressing up a battle royale between children from less-privileged areas as entertainment for the masses of the upper class citizens. Combine these facts and it's fairly easy to see exactly why the antagonists made the choices they did... or at least, it was easy for me to understand...

... I realize now, of course, that I should have started this all out with a question: What about the actions of the government and the game makers did you find to be illogical, jioan?
jioan
player, 3873 posts
Wed 24 Aug 2011
at 23:06
  • msg #61

Re: The Hunger Games

Kagura:
I disagree with your assessment of the actions of the government and the gamemakers as "illogical". Consider that in 74 years of Hunger Games, what happened with Katniss and Peeta had NEVER happened before. One of the wealthier fiefs did win, fairly consistently. Choosing a winner would have defeated the purpose of the Games in the first place, the purpose being to remind the fiefs that their lives existed at the whims of the Capitol, and that EVEN the more wealthy fiefs could fall. Also keep in mind that by the time Katniss's story rolls around, kids have grown up understanding that there can only be one winner of the Hunger Games, and if they're chosen, then EVERYONE in that arena is their enemy, even the other kid from their fief. And that's what happened. 73 INDIVIDUALS won the Hunger Games.

But I'm rambling. The point I'm trying to make is that the actions of the government and the gamemakers were actually perfectly logical if you look at things from a point of view inside the world being created. It's a post-apocalyptic era where the entirety of a country is led by a president who is essentially a dictator trying to outlive his time. He may also be more than a little bit insane. The gamemakers are tasked with dressing up a battle royale between children from less-privileged areas as entertainment for the masses of the upper class citizens. Combine these facts and it's fairly easy to see exactly why the antagonists made the choices they did... or at least, it was easy for me to understand...

... I realize now, of course, that I should have started this all out with a question: What about the actions of the government and the game makers did you find to be illogical, jioan?


I only read the first book so far and therefore can only discuss it, but the gamemakers appear to be the tools of the government used to form propaganda into entertainment.  The message they're supposed to send is one that makes the towns feel powerless and insignificant.  It's supposed to assist in forcing them into submission by showing they have absolute power over their children and all other aspects of their lives.  Having games like this makes sense from one perspective although it does seem that it would incite rebellion and fuel any resistance.  The government should be trying to make the districts feel part of the nation and proud of it as opposed to teaching them to despise their masters but I digress.

The gamemakers make the illogical decision of allowing compassionate axts such as Katniss taking care of Peeta.  This is against the message they are trying to send and splitting them up should have become a priority.  They want those willing to kill at all costs to get far in the game.  Once they figured out that Peeta and Katniss weren't those people they should have had one or both killed.  They don't do this for some reason and when given the choice between having no winner (never happened before but still imposes the idea that resistance is futile) or having two they choose having two!  Having two winners directly contradicts the propaganda.  Then they make the strangest choice of all by embracing the two winners as champions and turning the gladiator match into a love conquers all story which again directly contradicts the purpose of the games.  The government glorifies two people who broke the biggest rule in the game of having to kill all of the opponents.  They make them rich and convert them to celebrities for overcoming the immoral values that the gamemakers are a part of and supposed to be supporting.

I don't dislike the book because of this reason (that has more to deal with the tone and "drama"), but it did frustrate me and I think that a major yet simple change to the ending could have changed the impact that the book left no me.
firelizardkimi
player, 1578 posts
Gravity is a myth.
The Earth sucks.
Thu 25 Aug 2011
at 03:04
  • msg #62

Re: The Hunger Games

Read the next two books in the series, jioan. Things are much more complicated than originally revealed in the first book.
Kagura
player, 14041 posts
Mostly Human
Mostly Harmless...
Thu 25 Aug 2011
at 03:10
  • msg #63

Re: The Hunger Games

jioan:
I only read the first book so far and therefore can only discuss it, but the gamemakers appear to be the tools of the government used to form propaganda into entertainment.  The message they're supposed to send is one that makes the towns feel powerless and insignificant.  It's supposed to assist in forcing them into submission by showing they have absolute power over their children and all other aspects of their lives.


Yes, that's their role exactly.

jioan:
Having games like this makes sense from one perspective although it does seem that it would incite rebellion and fuel any resistance.  The government should be trying to make the districts feel part of the nation and proud of it as opposed to teaching them to despise their masters but I digress.


I'm sure it did in the early years, but remember that this has now been going on for the better part of a century, and the fiefs are essentially kept in such poverty and divided that any rebellion would be very simple to put down. The reasoning behind the Games isn't really explained all that well until the second book though, so if you only read the first, your frustration with the motive and implementation makes sense.

jioan:
The gamemakers make the illogical decision of allowing compassionate axts such as Katniss taking care of Peeta.  This is against the message they are trying to send and splitting them up should have become a priority.  They want those willing to kill at all costs to get far in the game. Once they figured out that Peeta and Katniss weren't those people they should have had one or both killed.
<quote>

They allow the acts of compassion because even the target audience (the people of the Capitol who don't have to sacrifice their children to the Games) need compassion/romance to make interesting television. Also, that dynamic has the added draw of being a unique situation for a yearly murderfest show.

As for trying to kill them once they figure out that Peeta and Katniss aren't willing to kill at all costs, they do try that, but again, if the game makers get directly involved then that wouldn't make good television, especially since it isn't clear to the game makers until the very end that the pair have TRUE compassion for each other (think about it, the readers only know how Katniss is feeling because she's the narrator, but even the one person who is supposed to know the competitors best - their sponsor - treats the romance as a tool, not real emotion). The attempts to kill the two are therefore limited in scope, but they go from drought (to force them into the waiting weapons of the other remaining players) to an outright attempt at massacre (the mutant dogs... which were actually almost successful in killing the two).

Katniss's final play, the poison berries, was completely outside of the sort of thing that the game makers would have thought of, partially because that's not part of THEIR lives, and partially because NOBODY is supposed to have that kind of knowledge. Remember, Katniss and Gale going outside the fence in 12 to hunt was illegal.

<quote jioan>
They don't do this for some reason and when given the choice between having no winner (never happened before but still imposes the idea that resistance is futile) or having two they choose having two!  Having two winners directly contradicts the propaganda.  Then they make the strangest choice of all by embracing the two winners as champions and turning the gladiator match into a love conquers all story which again directly contradicts the purpose of the games.  The government glorifies two people who broke the biggest rule in the game of having to kill all of the opponents.  They make them rich and convert them to celebrities for overcoming the immoral values that the gamemakers are a part of and supposed to be supporting.


Again, I thought this decision made sense for the world the book was depicting. Killing the two remaining contestants would have set an unacceptable precedent for the Games and most likely WOULD have caused riots and rebellion. Remember again, that, for the Capitol audience, Katniss and Peeta are sympathetic characters. To kill both of them would have unsettled the Capitol because, if one of the rules of establishment was broken (by the Capitol allowing all of the Games contenders to die), then the stage would be set for ALL of the rules of the Games to be broken, including the one that said Capitol children were safe from the Reaping.

It would also have caused problems in the districts because, as you pointed out, Peeta and Katniss had become heroes of a sort for the districts. To kill them would have almost certainly united the districts, which was exactly the situation that the Capitol was attempting to avoid by allowing them both to live.

The "glorification" of the victors was more of a tradition, and again, to flaunt that would have been to allow an opening for unrest, so once the decision to allow them both to live was made, there was no other choice. However if you'd read the next book you'd have learned that, not only did President Snow attempt to use them as a propaganda tool, but he also threatened Katniss in person back in her district (by threatening the safety of her mother and sister) to keep her in line, although he never trusted her to do as he asked, and so kept her under close watch. Also, he managed (theoretically) to manipulate the next Games so that the competitors were former victors, sending Peeta and Katniss back into the arena where the game masters did their level best (although the head game master turned out to be an undercover rebel) to DESTROY the two completely...
REkzkaRZ
player, 23 posts
/start rant
rekzkarz.com
Thu 25 Aug 2011
at 06:35
  • msg #64

Re: The Hunger Games

Jjoan <--  ouch!  Didn't like Hunger Games?  Sorry for you on that...

Funny bc I'm normally very critical of unbelievable setup & scenarios, but in re: current world, I thought it was somewhat realistic.  I'm surprised we don't have fights to the death of (so-called '3rd world') kids now!!

The fact that the two hung together was NOT so crazy, bc Peta had loved Katniss from the earliest.

Second note -- have you ever seen a tie in the Olympics?!?  What country would prance around and say 'Ha Ha' if that happened?

As someone that finds sports a sad throwback to the Roman empire 'social control' days, it seemed like so much of the book held a criticism of our world today that I didn't nitpick much -- but I did find some of the lovey dovey-ness to be over the top.  But Katniss' had a sensibility thru the book that she wasn't playing the games against the other kids, as much as bucking the system constantly.

Reminded me of the black Olympians who gave a black power salute -- and were subsequently punished by USA.

Anyway ...  I'm psyched about the movie & hope it ain't too screwed up!!
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