Re: RPoL Design Update
While that was a very eloquent argument for taking the last login information (day only) away from players, I'd be very upset to see it go.
So I feel compelled to offer a counter point.
I should note, I am in favour of the two different views, if that helps.
And would not be against a more 'zoomed out' version for players (maybe last logon of 'within the last week' or 'longer than a week', if coding doesn't make that a crazy suggestion) as a middle ground.
So:
Pros of having Last Login information be GM only:
1. Jase can strike 'Fix PMs to force-update GM-controlled characters last login' off his To-Do list. =)
Can't argue with this. Although we're also adding 'code a way for players and GMs to see two totally different cast lists' which may not be less work and may be a pro for leaving last logon visible to players.
2. GMs won't see different Last Login information than their players do with regards to GM-controlled characters, eliminating the possibility of them accidentally outing themselves in conversation.
I've never been in a discussion where there would be a risk of this. Unless the GM is regularly quoting logon dates and times I don't see why a quick proof read to check they're not providing unnecessary information doesn't also prevent this. If your players are asking 'when did so and so last logon' direct them to the cast list. If that doesn't work, the problem sounds like the player not the information in the cast list.
3. GMPCs that haven't posted in a while won't make the cast list look like it has inactive people on it to players. Remember that the GM can't see the same GMPCs' last login information that players do, so they often have no idea a PC looks inactive from the player side.
If I'm a prospective player, I check the cast list to see if there are some active players. If some characters look inactive, that's fine (and, honestly, expected). If I'm in the game, I'm going to want to check characters I'm posting with. Who, presumably, if they're GMPCs, will be posting, so also not a problem.
4. No more gloom-and-doom posts from players of 'Did we lose Bobby?' or 'Looks like Betty's quit' just because those characters haven't logged in for a week or two. (This is shockingly common, and really irritating.)
An engaged player base who care about the people they're playing with is a problem? If this is really irritating to you, and you want to maintain the illusion that an additional character (belonging to GM or a player) is a unique character, then make the occasional OOC post. Eliminates the problem of people worrying about their absence, and builds the illusion that they're a separate entity.
5. GMs will be able to post for players that *are* absent without other players realizing that it's the GM posting for them. Currently, when a GM puppets a player character, Last Post is updated, but Last Login isn't, making it pretty obvious it was a puppet post. (It can be nice to know that even if you have to tell your GM you lost your job & internet/have to go to the hospital/whatever, it doesn't become everyone else's business too.)
This is fair, and I can't argue with it. If a player is absent for RL reasons they wish to keep private, and the GM is posting on their behalf to enable that, then yeah, the cast list may make it clear it was the GM not the player posting. A work around would be a generic 'AFK' post from the player giving no details. I'd also say, most times, the stylistic differences in the writing would give away that someone else wrote the post.
6. Players that control multiple PCs (or NPCs) will have zero fear that someone will notice login trends that are outside of their control.
Ok, but how much fear is there about this? Honest question. I don't care, and will be honest about who I'm playing unless there's a reason not to be. And I've been in a small game, where there was a reason not to be, and where my timezone was distinctly different. I managed to successfully 'stealth' as an additional character for a month or two, when the stealth character died (as planned) and I could reveal all OOC. There are usually far more obvious tells than the logon on the cast list. Writing style, punctuation/formatting quirks, posting times, OOC posts, and probably others I can't think of right now. I'll accept that the cast list is the only one of those the player doesn't have some sort of control over, but in my experience it as also very minor compared to the others. And, unless you happen to refresh the cast list at the exact time another player is logging on it's a long way from conclusive. If you've got players obsessively refreshing to catch the moment someone else logs in, again, the problem is the player not the cast list.
Cons of having Last Login information GM only:
1. Players can't check other players' login activity.
Well yeah. And the above list can be summarised as 'it makes some things more difficult for GMs, and for players with secret characters.
So I'm going to expand on what this means means for me:
- I'm a prospective player in your game. I want to check my compatibility with the current players to make sure I'd be a good fit for the game and it'd be a good fit for me.
With last logon information I can look at the characters who have logged in over the last week, for example. Read the descriptions. See how I feel about the characters I'd potentially be playing with.
Without it, I pick a few and guess. Or read the whole cast list, which in some games is a lot of characters. And I hope that if I join the characters I was excited to write with are active and the ones that raised red flags are either inactive or greatly outnumbered by the ones I liked.
- I'm a new player in a game and I need to jump in somewhere. Having an idea of who has logged on in the last few days, and who hasn't logged on for months gives me an idea of who to approach (IC or via PM) as I figure things out. If the GM thinks a GMPC who isn't showing as active would be perfect for this, then they can approach me as that GMPC, or suggest as GM 'hey, what about whoever'.
- I'm a player in a game. My scene partner has gone silent. Was my last post terrible? Or am I being impatient? If the cast list says they haven't logged on for a few days, I need to cool my jets. If they're logging on daily but not saying anything, it might be time for a polite and friendly PM asking if everything's ok and if I can do anything to help them post.
Yeah, without the information I can PM the GM to give me the information the cast list currently provides. But, if players asking if other players are ok is irritating, players asking 'what would the cast list say if the information hadn't been removed' will get far more irritating.
- I'm a player in a group scene. A character has been quiet. Do I post again or do I wait? As above, and other people have covered this.
The OOC is a good place to check this, but if someone isn't posting IC or OOC it's hard to check in with them. The cast list let's me know if they're clearing red, or if they've not had a chance to log on. I can use that information to inform my response.
While I see the pros and cons to both sides, I play more than I GM. So I want the cast list to be useful to me, a player.
I find the cast list really useful, and would be very sad to lose 'last login'.
I run the old version of the site on my phone so I can still see last logon at a glance if I need to.
From Jase's list of the five bits of information the cast list currently shows, I'd order them (from most to least important to me, as a player):
Name - the rest of the information is meaningless without this
Last Logon - for the reasons outlined above
Last Post - potentially gives a bit more information about activity. But not vital
Tag/Group - I've never been in a game where, as a player, this mattered. Reading this thread, some people have, and I'd have no objection to prioritising one/both of these over Last Post
# Posts - Other than letting me know who is brand new and has never posted, this tells me nothing without further context. And that further context tells me more than this number.
Obviously this is my list, my opinion, and it's totally subjective :)