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evileeyore member, 649 posts GURPS GM and Player Joined 20150819 Sat 12 Feb 2022 at 20:43 |
Additionally I request the removal of Cast List names from the automatic Known Word function. (N)PC names could be Red, Blue, Sword, Pike, Mountain, Five, River, Gorge, etc. Yes, if someone is saying their names it should be their name, not gobbledygooked*, but if foreign dude is saying "Take the red sword up the blue mountain past five pike river gorge..." in his strange foreign language, the 'whole sentence' should not be coming across in English. And this would become exacerbated if the GM has as many NPCs as a GM has in one of my games, it's possible the Known Words list for that game is several thousand words... * And this is easily done by curly bracing the Character Name anyway, and quite often this has to be done as the Name as it appear on the Cast List page is often quite different from the name the (N)PC might use or be addressed by commonly. | |||||
Lord Psynister member, 182 posts @Psynister on socials Sat 12 Feb 2022 at 20:59 |
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Skald moderator, 962 posts Whatever it is, I'm against it Sun 13 Feb 2022 at 05:00 |
The problem is that the language handler obfuscates, not translates, so when you have titles or common words as part of character names the private languages auto-known functionality effectively provides a translation of those words in all instances. Very basic example - if your character is Kermit the Frog, then any instances of "the" will be not be obfuscated, matter not that the word is entirely different in that other language (le, la, les, el, lo, gli, der, die, das, off the top of my head in a couple of European languages). Same for Frog, Captain, Red, Sword, etc etc where they're part of the name of any character in the game. So ... +1 to render exactly whatever is enclosed within curly brackets and nothing else. Bonus points (feature creep alert !) if the language group pop-up gets a checkbox (unchecked by default ?) for 'auto-render character names' that automatically sticks the curly brackets in if it recognises character names in the input text box (but only in the pop-up, if you're entering the tag manually, then you're on your own as it should be) - and since the private line that the pop-up inserts will show the curly brackets in all instances, then they can be manually removed if desired after the fact, if you note unintended consequences elsewhere in the string. | |||||
evileeyore member, 650 posts GURPS GM and Player Joined 20150819 Sun 13 Feb 2022 at 05:47 |
If jase wants to go the feature creep route, I'm completely behind it. I just figure it would be easier to default back to "no automatic Known Words, curly brace it if you want it known". | |||||
evileeyore member, 652 posts GURPS GM and Player Joined 20150819 Tue 15 Feb 2022 at 06:00 |
I discovered this: https://i.imgur.com/pvjQV4d.png Of the 360-some-odd words that show up in that game's Cast List, those are the ones that appear multiple times. Why did I test this, well, aside from being insane, it's because I noticed that some words weren't being tripped, notably "no", "as", "the" , and "soldier". Now sure, maybe there's a "if a word is repeated enough in the Cast List it ceases to be considered a 'Name' function", but... why "soldier" and not "Village" which shows up more frequently or "orc" and "Orc" which show up as often (double if the function is ignoring capitalization - which it does!). Okay, I can see you saying "But maybe orc is..." okay, but look at "Troll" and "troll". Right? Inconsistent it is. So now I suspect there is a specific of "Ignore" list associated with the Known Words function and I'm doubly voting to just have Known Words ignore the Cast List entirely. | |||||
bigbadron moderator, 16080 posts He's big, he's bad, but mostly he's Ron. Wed 16 Feb 2022 at 16:06 |
Perhaps just as annoyed as evileeyore apparently is by it's existence. :) Skald's check box idea (msg #3) could be a good compromise though. | |||||
evileeyore member, 653 posts GURPS GM and Player Joined 20150819 Thu 17 Feb 2022 at 03:48 |
My problem with it is it's inconsistent (or consistent to rules I do not know) and it's "easy" to render Language Groups essentially non-functional. I'm in a game where there are roughly 350 non-name words that are "Known Words" because they're in the Cast List. And with that GM that list will grow, I know him, he can't be helped. This means for any GM who wants a deep Cast List with words as names or titles, they are rendering the Language Groups "useless" for themselves. | |||||
Skald moderator, 963 posts Whatever it is, I'm against it Thu 17 Feb 2022 at 04:31 |
I'm sure I voted for the known words exclusions, however in practice I've found I don't use them, so the benefit to me now is in going with the curly brackets only option, but that's just my mileage - as bbr says, that won't work for him. Checkbox compromise gives us a bet both ways ... and change of plan, maybe set the default as checked so it excludes known words by default which means it will work the same way it always has unless those of us who want to exclude known words manually uncheck it. Win-win ! Any bugs that you identify ... that's really something I expect jase would look at regardless of whether or not a change in functionality is adopted. :> | |||||
evileeyore member, 654 posts GURPS GM and Player Joined 20150819 Thu 17 Feb 2022 at 05:48 |
Not knowing the rules means I can't identify bugs, only things that aren't working the same way. Like "Why are 'soldier' and 'troll' excluded as Known Words but 'village' and 'orc' aren't? Why is 'it' and 'is' excluded, but 'it's' isn't? My suspicion is there is a hidden word list, because if it's a set of rules it's wildly inconsistent. And I just can't be arsed to test every word to see what words are excluded and possibly figure out why. | |||||
agious member, 10 posts If there's a will There's a way Tue 22 Mar 2022 at 16:34 |
1. I think if languages are being used, and that function is active, then it should ignore names, because my name isn't said the same way in different languages. I don't know what the curly brackets are, but will try and figure it out, because I usually enter everything in without using the check-boxes. |
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