Not that I've seen but seems like you could model it with something like a a physical limitations of increased knockback and a small amount of uncontrolled flight when windy.

Okay.  Thanks.  It can be hard to keep track of all the optional rules.  Reducing one's weight isn't something that comes up that often, but a character I'm working should be able to do that as part of her powers.  I was just trying to figure out what it would be good for.  Sounds like maybe some goofy shrinking and maybe some a la carte stunts.

You could always treat it as a special effect. Define the abilities you think it needs to supply, and give 'Density Decrease' as the sfx. Here's a quick forty point sampler:

Density Decrease
• Semi-Solid Form:  (Total: 100 Active Cost, 41 Real Cost) Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (+6m Knockback; -1) (Real Cost: 15) plus Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (+6m Knockback; -1) (Real Cost: 15) plus Desolidification, cannot be touched, doesn’t register on Sonar or Radar, and emits no scent (40 Active Points); Does Not Protect Against Damage (-1), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (+6m Knockback; -1), Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2) (Real Cost: 11)
• Leaping +40m (44m forward, 22m upward) (20 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (+6m Knockback; -1) (Real Cost: 10)
• Lighter Than Air:  Flight 20m (20 Active Points); Gliding (-1), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (+6m Knockback; -1) (Real Cost: 7)
• Easier to Climb:  Clinging (20 STR) (14 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (+6m Knockback; -1), Cannot Resist Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 6)
• Lighter is Quieter:  +5 with Stealth (10 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (+6m Knockback; -1) (Real Cost: 5)
• Walking on Air: Naked Advantage, Usable [As Second Mode Of Movement] (Running Usable as Flight; +1/4) for up to 12 Active Points of Running (12m) (3 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (+6m Knockback; -1) (Real Cost: 1)

Edit - I left out the last suggested power.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:33, Sat 11 Jan 2020.

Hey, the rulebooks are big and I remember reading about this somewhere, but I can't remember where. Also possible I'm just remembering an old 5E rule, so I want to see if anyone here knows and can set the record straight. When you buy Resistant Protection at a certain value, when you improve it, do you have to maintain that ratio? Say you bought 18rPD/9rED, and you want to increase the rED to 15. Do you HAVE to increase the rPD to 30? I think you were required to in 5E, but can't remember for sure for 6E.

It's not a rule in 6E.

I believe it was removed because you can just improve your PD or ED and buy the resistant advantage on it now to circumvent the old rules. There wasn't such an advantage beforehand.

The only rule on the rations now is that if you have a defense power that gives you say 12 PDr/6 EDr that ratio has to be maintained even if you use it at a lower level or push it to a higher one (so if you used it at half power would be 6 PDr/ 3 EDr.

I hope things are going well for you Cody. Sorry my health crashed so badly last year.

Okay. That's what I thought, but like I said, couldn't remember for sure. I did notice the rule for using it at a lower strength. I think that Adjustments to Resistant Protection are also supposed to maintain the existing ratio as much as possible, too.

Things are going alright for me. And there's nothing to apologize for, these are just games, and I was never perfect either, so... In any case, good to see we're both trying to do stuff.

As GM you are of course free to keep that rule, just because it's not in the book anymore doesn't mean you have to disregard it.

That's true, but I also play in a game, so knowing the baseline rule is still helpful. In any case, I always disliked that rule; I don't think it really makes sense. Just makes it harder to have a character whose stronger in some defenses than others. Over the course of a long enough campaign, you'll definitely improve all your defenses, but what if you want the weaker defenses to become less bad compared to the good defenses?

From 5th Revised:

"Characters can only buy Armor for PD/ED. They must specify the type of Armor defense (PD/ED) when they buy the Armor. For example if a character spent 21 points he could have 14PD/0ED, 7PD/7ED or any other combination that totalled 14 points. The character cannot change this combination, though they can spend EXP to add to their existing Armor."

I would read that as you can't swap around the points after you buy it, but you can spend EXP to add additional points split between them as you wish.

I couldn't comment on 6th - I've not spent enough time playing around with it to say how its changed.

Sixth eliminated that restriction by lumping everything under a 'resistant defenses' power. As to ratios, increases during play, et al, the important point is not what the rules do say as much as it is what they don't. It's already considered normal to have multiple 'resistant defenses' powers based on advantages and limitations so why wouldn't it be reasonable to have multiple 'resistant defenses' powers based on special effects? Once the defenses are divided into separate 'slots' by being different powers, manipulating the ratios between them wouldn't be difficult, at all.

But by making multiple Resistant Protection Powers - one for rPD, one for rED, etc.- you make your defenses far more vulnerable to Adjustment if the Resistant Protection Powers are Unified - which they might be because there's other powers they're Unified with; say you have an armor suit that provides rPD and rED and also some Life Supports and some Attack Powers, and you would like to A) represent these using one Focus (an OIF), and B) Unified Power. Adjustment Powers with Expanded Effect would similarly have their effectiveness on your defenses doubled. THAT is why you put all your Resistant defenses in one Power.

That's the intended effect of using the 'unified power' limitation. It has nothing to do with separating the defenses into various distinct powers.

Alright, here's my understanding of how Adjustment Powers are supposed to work.

Let's use the armor suit example I was talking about earlier. You have this character with the armor suit, and are thinking of adding Resistant Protection, and you know you want it to be Unified. The armor suit also has a Blast 12d6 Power, defined as an arm canon that fires pellets or rays of energy.

When you consider how to construct the Resistant Protection, you could build it as a single Resistant Protection Power with 10 rPD and 10 rED or as two separate ones, one with 10 rPD and another one with 10 rED.

Let's imagine what happens when this character gets into a fight with an enemy that can negatively Adjust Blasts, which is Unified with the Resistant Protection Power(s). Just to have a name, let's call the theoretical hero Defender; he uses an armor suit, after all. He encounters a villain, Annihilator, who can tear apart any object with his mere presence. He uses his "Annihilate Weapon" Power to Drain Defender's Blast, hits, and rolls 20 for his Effect Roll. All Powers that the Blast is Unified with also 20 Active Points.

Scenario 1: Defender's player chose to build the Resistant Protection as one Power with 10 rPD and 10 rED, which has 30 Active Points. His Blast was Drained 20 Active Points, and so his Resistant Protection should also be Drained 20 Active Points, which it has 30; however, since Resistant Protection is a Defense Power, every Active Point counts as two. Resistant Protection is also bought in increments of 2 defense per 3 Active Points, so for every 6 Active Points in the Drain's Effect Roll, the Resistant Protection loses 2 points of defense, with 2 Active Points of Drain not having an effect yet. Defender's Resistant Protection is knocked down to 7 rPD and 7 rED.

Scenario 2: Defender's player chose to build the Resistant Protection as two Powers. One Power is 10 rPD and 0 rED, the other Power is 0 rPD and 10 rED. Each of those Powers gets Drained 20 Active Points. As said before, Resistant Protection is a Defense Power bought in increments of 2 defense per 3 Active Points. The first Power is now 4 rPD and 0 rED, with 2 points of Drain not having an effect yet, and the second Power is now 0 rPD and 4 rED, with 2 points of Drain not having an effect yet.

OIC. Yes, dividing the defenses into separate distinct powers does make them more vulnerable to adjustment powers. That would be the price paid to circumvent the rule about maintaining the ratios of the purchased defenses.

In reply to Cody Reimers (msg # 44):

I need a quick reference guide to hit locations
I don't have my book with me and thought an easy find reference would be awesome
Thanks in advance

This message was last edited by the GM at 23:18, Thu 26 Mar 2020.

In reply to lensman (msg # 47):

You are awesome
Thanks

On the previous topic of maintaining ratio of PD/ED (resistant or otherwise) defenses....

I don't find anywhere in the rules that stipulate how you are allow to improve your defenses over time.  Nothing that prohibits how you can spend XP.

The only ratio requirement I've come across is under the Defense Power description on 6E1 p146:



Adjustment powers like Drain would apply to Defenses in equal proportions (6E1 p196 for Drain).  Regardless if you purchased Resistant Defense as 2 separate powers, a Drain Resistant Defense would still affect both unless the Drain was specifically limited to Drain Resistant PD (possibly because it has a Limitation?)

I actually do have a question, regarding 6E and it involves something I was eyeballing.

This power here:
Armor-Shredding Qi-Strike: Severe Transform 1d6 (shatters Resistant Defenses), Partial Transform (+1/2)

Bear in mind, the objective is not merely to bust the body armor off my foe. I want to make their skin messed up, their force fields softened, a tank ceasing to be bulletproof, etc. The real question on my mind is that the line between Major Transform and Severe goes from the very specific "you can affect up to twelve points of defenses" to "you can literally turn them into poop if you want", and if I should just push for more as long as I'm in the Severe section.

With 5 points of Power Defense they become immune to your power.....many bricks have power defense...just something to point out.

Sometimes we think of cool things that just doesn't work out.

A Major transform at most can affect 12 points of Defenses. More than that it is considered Severe. To answer your rules question :)

It was made on a point budget, and I was trying to not be what I call "rude". Impenetrable is what I take when I absolutely want an Adjustment or pseudo-Adjustment Power to stick, because I can count on one hand the number of published villains with Impenetrable Power Defenses. If they have Power Defense, that's fine, because that's what Power Defense is for.

But I did understand that curve correctly. Alrighty then.

I've asked some about this before, but I thought it'd be worth trying here:

One of the things that holds me back on HERO is that I really, really dislike the Speed chart. I dislike multiple actions in general; any system in which you can get more actions than other participants invariably means you can do more cool stuff and eclipse everyone else. The game becomes about who gets more actions, which are simply the most powerful ability in the game.

I also dislike the way the chart makes it difficult to even "ballpark" movement speed in my head. Admittedly, this may just be me, but you can't just look at pure movement speed, for instance. You have to look at how many movement actions and stuff you take per turn, and ugh, it's just easier to do it M&M style, where you can move this fast, which means this far in a single move action, or this much in miles per hour, etc.

As I understand it, much of HERO's crunch is actually front-loaded, and in-game, it isn't necessarily much crunchier than many games. If so, i wouldn't mind giving it a serious go for different games I have in mind.

So, any HERO buffs here with input on this? SPD is one of the things I really don't like. The only other thing that is a complete pain for me is figuring out how to add DCs to attacks and whatnot. It seems unnecessarily arcane at times, especially with killing attacks.

Speed is a stat that takes some getting used to if your primary to-go system is d20, but it only becomes weird once you start getting into numbers that twelve can't process (5 and everything between 7 and 11), or when Speed starts getting altered mid-fight, the latter being something even veteran GMs can struggle with. As niche of a case as it is, precedent about it does help. If d20 isn't your "native" system, Speed is pretty simple to grasp.

"How can a mind so full of knowledge learn anything?" - Jackie Chan, playing himself, because he usually does

This one is going to come down to the ability to unlearn a system, which is a hard lesson. It's just different, mostly. As for alternatives to Speed or Movement, I really don't have a suggestion without turning it into another system.

As for Movement, now that one depends on the edition you are using. 5th and prior used hexes, but 6th moved to meters, but also stated that two meters are one hex, leaving people wondering why the hell they didn't just stick to hex as a unit of measurement. If they moved at half their movement or less, they get an action relevant to combat - yay. If they exceeded that, they don't unless they were doing something like a Move-Through or Move-By - boo. And if they were trucking at Noncombat Speeds, they get their To Hit and To Be Hit stats cut in half - booboo incoming unless they cleared the field.

Damage Classes are written as more complicated then they are, but the gist is this:
Is it Normal or Stun Only damage? +1 DC = +1d6
Is it an NND or a Mental Attack? (Regarding the latter - wut) +2 DC = +1d6
Is it a Killing Attack? +3 DC = +1d6
Is it a Technique that asks about a stat, like Disarm asking about Strength? +1 DC = +5 relevant stat check, or bonus -1 if somehow a roll on 3d6
Is it a Killing NND or Killing Mental Attack? (y u do dis) I'm not sure if the precedent for that regarding Damage Classes exists, given that Damage Classes are usually meant to complement some kind of Martial Art, and I have not seen a Killing NND (or a Mental Attack for that matter) as a Maneuver. But if I must due to some acceptable chicanery on my player's part, I'd probably go with (+6 DC = +1d6), unless testing deems that to be far too conservative.

It looks complex, but as you pointed out, it's mostly front-loaded.

One possibility is simply leaving all SPD at 3, but I'd still rather just find a way to take it out entirely.

Damages Classes - the table at 6e2 p101 helps a lot with calculating DC, especially when power has an advantage.  Much simpler than all the explanation in 5er p407

Ultimate Speedster describes how to calculate Real-World Speeds on p205 but the Velocity Table on p206 almost makes it a simple lookup.  I don't know offhand if 6e has a similar table.  Truthfully though converting meters/minute or second or hour to miles/hour is available on Google.  Just search 'm/h to miles/h' and the conversion tool should come up.

High SPD characters should generally have less powerful attacks and lower defenses....assuming we're talking about similar point costs.  Consider setting average SPD for your campaign and adjusting max active points for attacks/defenses by how much anyone deviates from it.
 - Say 400 point characters, SPD 5 is average, 60 Active points for attacks, 20 PD/ED 12 rPD/rED
    - For Bricks - SPD 4, 70 active points, 25 PD/ED, 18 rPD/rED
    - For Speedsters - SPD 6, 50 active points, 15 PD/ED, 8 rPD/rED

That may not be quite right but you can probably find a combination you're comfortable with.  I agree high SPD can be very powerful so nothing wrong with making it a trade-off.  Kind of cool if high speed characters need to be a little more creative in how they handle opponents.

Also there's nothing wrong with forcing everyone to slower speeds so that they don't all end up being more than x2-x4 as fast as Normals.  Maybe have everyone start SPD 3 and loose 5 or 10 Active points in powers for every increase in SPD?