Okay, well, it's usually rolling under 7 I have trouble with.

I know perfectly well what to do when you completely fail a roll during combat-- thing you're fighting hurts you!

But when there's no threat around, I have trouble. You're walking through the halls of Castle Amber, talking to a cousin, when you realize-- wait, have I ever heard of this thing we're talking about before? Do I remember something useful about this?

Roll INT: 5.

Well, an ogre isn't gonna jump out and attack you, and you're not gonna trip and fall downstairs, so I guess I'll give you 1 xp and -1.

I'm getting a little tired of that. (For one thing, it seems like not nearly enough punishment to earn an xp.)

So I went to the original Dungeon World, my favorite 2-die-6-rolling rpg, to refresh myself on what can be done when it's time for a punishment (as Daria once said https://y.yarn.co/1646a151-fa4...1089f_screenshot.jpg .)


1. Use a monster move (ogre shows up), or a location move (trap). Yeah, I grasp that stuff. I want more options. Moving on...

2. Danger move. Ah-ha. In this game, a thing like that could be: You roll a 6, get 1 xp, take -1 forward... and The Gray Men make a little more progress toward whatever their goal is. So it's still true that nothing big happens to you now, but it's coming... You might even get a hint about it, although not one that's useful in helping you fight against the threat. Now that's interesting, the GM said to himself...

3. Use up the PC's resources: You roll a 6, and then the next time you try to buy something in the city, it turns out that Random's put you on a fixed allowance for a while... I don't wanna do that very much... but I could...

Out in the Shadows, of course, it could just be that something useful falls out of your pack and off a cliff, or that your pocket gets picked. Good to remind me. But we were discussing Safe-At-Home-In-A-Castle-type failures...

4. Turn their action back on them: "Think about the benefits a move might grant a character and turn them around in a negative way. Alternately, grant the same advantage to someone who has it out for the characters." If Ballad has learned of Duke Horst’s men approaching from the east, maybe a scout has spotted her, too. I sort of pulled this, a little, with the axe-throwing contest...

5. Give an opportunity that fits the PC's abilities/desires... In other words, suddenly, an extremely tempting chance to get in trouble appears! Yeah, I'll probably be using THAT...


6 (unofficial): and then there's the idea that I might just not grant xp in a Safe At Home situation. No, sorry, you failed your INT roll and you don't remember anything useful, although nothing very bad happens except that it's a bit embarrassing how it looked like you were about to say something brilliant and then nope, you got nothing. Take -1 forward.

I find sometimes it is hard to fully play the Amber royal (mentality/physicality)
Were supposed to be superior in many ways and yet with the same chances of success it doesn't feel that way a lot of the time. (Especially when we get on a loosing streak of the die bot) This is not your fault GM but I do find it detracts from the feel of things when we royals fail at things that should be easy even for a young Amberite.

I don't really know how to rectify this under the current system except in the descriptions of when we succeed. We can describe succeeding in some amazing way.

If there was someway to capture the (Your an Amberite !) shtick more that would be wonderful. Though Ballad in her prose seems to capture it well.

Now we succeed on a 10,11,and 12.  How come we fail more often ? on a 2,3,4,5,and 6. ?
Then there is the succeed at a cost 7,8,9 <-- which feels right.

I strongly agree that awarding XP for every failure is not good.  Like the example used.  Walking in Castle Amber and trying to recall if you heard anything about Ogres.  That failure is not worth and XP.  It may not even be worth the -1 to the roll (unless it is specific to the topic of Ogres).  Because the whole thing has no real bearing on the situation or is consequential to the scene.  Sometimes a failure is just a failure to remember something.  In the real world, we forget things all time.

If you feel it is important enough of a Roll but not worthy of XP; you could give mis-information on a Orge, say mis-remembering it as a Troll.  And if no one knows the difference between a Troll and an Ogre, that can lead to an XP moment in the future.  Not that it needs track or anything.  No tallies etc.

I also agree with Jade, the Dice Roller definitely nerfs the feeling that you are good at anything :)  BUT that is NOT your fault GM.  Just a comment and the downside of any dice based system.  And too many compensate with just more flat bonus. (D&D 4th being one of the worst for that).

I DO like the idea that you XP for failing, but it should be important.  So combat, debates, diplomatic situations, learning and trying new skills and abilities and other things like that.

Even combat practice would be a good place to learn XP.  Because the goal of the practice IS to get better, which you do through improving and Leveling up.

I really like the new Moves, which do give bonuses and flavor :)

  I personally think xp should be fairly important, therefore a bit tough to get. Since it goes towards level up and potential stat increases, it should be more difficult than say, a missed swing in practice, etc, or something trivial like a foot race or a minor embarrassment.

  From one who spent over 25 years doing medieval combat and jousting, it takes wayyyy more time, effort, and practice to show any real improvement than spending a few hour long sessions.  Same for any kind of significant gains in strength or endurance training.  Of course, I am a mere mortal, not an amberite.

In reply to Lance (msg # 4):

Well, XP for training, in my opinion the scene typically would represent a montage leading up to the scene that is acted out.
The initial scene we did, I had no problem if he didn't get any XP.  I only took XP as directed by the GM, which is where any and all XP rewards should be coming from :)

So, using training, we will probably have another "intro" training once we find our Master of Arms.  So that session, I wouldn't expect XP.
But days weeks down the road when we have another session that is acted out, then getting an XP or two at the end of the whole scene would make sense.  Because then it represents the training regime that was put together.

For me, it is the details around the situation that are important.  Like in the beach thread, we failed running up the stairs with Ari on Jon's back, We didn't get any XP for that and none should've been giving.  Now if we were running up the stairs carrying Ari because a horde of angry merfolk were chasing us?  Then yes we should get XP.

I hope that clarifies.

Because almost none of your stats have built-in penalties, and in fact a number of them have built-in bonuses, so the odds are you'll do better than 6 more than 50 percent of the time.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:34, Thu 11 Feb 2021.

Oh I wasn't aware most games have built in penalties in stats.
All that being said once in a while a bad roll does make the game more interesting.
Detect Magic on an ax for example. (Though I can't help but feel I drove Lance from group RP with that)

I’m good at BS and improv, but not so much distilling a thing to its essence. But here are some thoughts, prob. broken into different posts, about rolls 6 and under:



I’m cool with a Safe at Home situation not granting XP, tbh. Or only granting XP if you’ve failed 3 (or whatever random number) times trying the same thing, and after a certain amount of IC time has passed. So if Ballad’s trying to throw an ax and she fails three times, maybe then 1 XP and a consequence. But part of me thinks it should be three (or whatever) times on separate occasions? To facillitate learning? Like, for example — Ballad goes ax throwing in the city with Jade and Jon, ‘cause they want to get better than Ari. Ballad sucks, failure. Oh well. Ballad pesters Trent and Isadora into an ax throwing contest and fails miserably. Drat. Ballad is in a bad mood, so she goes into the countryside and flings an ax at a tree a few times. Failure. But also now: XP, because by this point maybe there’s an inkling of ‘oh hey I’m doing this wrong,’ and consequence because uh oh. It also kind of pushes the idea of Doing Things to turn an At Home failure into character development?

Yes! This is cool. I dig it 'uh oh, current failure leads to future trouble.' Like somebody notices a thing you're investigating (for an INT or CHARM or even PERC roll), you don't quite get what you're looking for/have to keep digging, and it's not good that they notice so cue a plotty plot/opportunity for story!

Aw! Thank you, Jade! :beams: Ballad would bow, w/ flourish of course.

I kiiiiinda feel like we're plenty Amberite enough--though I actually really like the occasional failure, 'cause I think it's an interesting challenge... and anyway, most of us are pretty new to our birthrights (or if not new, ahem, like, yannow, young and learning) that making mistakes is part of being a Protagonist/Main Character. Even in the Amber books. Look at how dumb Merlin and Corwin both are at varying points!

But when we're at home doing basic non-XP-earning contests and stuff we can probably just try to capture the epic quality better maybe.

Example! (I'm sorry, I'm super longwinded. I like discussing game mechanics as long as I never have to remember stuff later/pay attention to it.) For, like, I dunno, a drinking contest just make sure the baseline failure is already something ridiculously epic. So like Ballad rolls a failure, so it only takes TWENTY drinks before she has to call it, Jade rolls a failure, so it only takes TWENTY ONE drinks before she has to call it, (and they both get hangovers) Jon rolls a partial success and he's woozy at 25 drinks, no hangover, and then Ari gets an unqualified awesometacular success had she literally drank as much as everybody in Bloody Mary's and the renown is strong), Lance gets an unqualified awesometacular success, he and Ari are neck and neck and some other bar is like, "You guys can come here if you want..." and people are cheering to see how far they go.

(Sorry that example was alcohol heavy! A friend of mine gave me a Molecular Mixology Gin Kit, so it's the first thing that sprang to mind.)