I confirm!

I’ve rolled a 7, which is 24 with my normal will mod.
A lot of conditional bonuses may apply though.

+2 vs charm/enchantment
+4 if I’m unaware of the incoming attack
+15 from Iona’s mind shield
-3 if it’s something designed to make me angry ;)

And spell resistance it it applies.

Ok, I think I know how to rule on this, but before I do that, I just want to confirm my understanding is the same as you all: if something is not explicitly marked as mind-affecting or a charm, it's fair of me to say that it's neither of those things, even if it targets Will and inflicts the Fascinated condition, right? Or would any of you argue that I'm misunderstanding the rules there?
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:14, Sun 25 Feb.

The bard ability Fascinate is an enchantment (compulsion) effect, so I would definitely not suggest it is a charm unless specifically stated.
Add to whether it is mind affecting or not, I would say that things that inflict the Fascinated conditions are typically mind affecting, unless there is a very specific reason to be considered otherwise (like if it is a poison that somehow fascinates your body rather than your mind?)
At the end of the day, you’re the boss though!!

It's a bit murky since we're not using the Vancian system, but in general it'll be up to the GM to decide whether or not something applies. The text says it protects against 'any mind-altering spell or effect that would require a Will save' and... well, you know your monster better than i do.

Keep in mind that the +15 (when rolling over my 26 MSD to get past the immunity) would also only apply to those 'mind-altering spells or effects that require a Will save', so it would very much affect Nar's roll here as well if the strongest version of Mind Shield does not apply to whatever the Serpent has going for it.

I just remembered, Nar has the reclusive Curse. In combat she needs to roll save against friendly spells.
So if the Mind Shield is cast when we're already in initiative, she will need to roll against it first.

We weren't in combat, i just slapped that down at the very start right when you'd first start teleporting people up. Should still have 11 rounds left when the Serpent broke through the grate.

About Reclusive though... Would i be correct in saying that would also apply to in-combat healing spells?

Yes it would! Also you would need a touch attack if it is a touch range. Better to let Nar fare on her own during combat :D

Hmm... GM, if i Channel Energy to heal Nar, would that still trigger a save roll from her? Also, since i can infuse Life Sphere abilities into my Channel Energy, would that circumvent Nar having to roll to save vs. the Life abilities?

Since Channel Energy can be saved against, Nar would need to save against it - and any rider ability you applied to that. It's just the way her drawback works, I'm afraid.

I understand.

Just so we're on the same page here, what would fall under mind-altering effects, on both positive and negative sides? Because considering that drawback, Mind Shield would make her much more likely to save against beneficial applications :)
This message was last edited by the player at 22:43, Mon 26 Feb.

I mean, anything that is marked specifically as mind-affecting would be mind-affecting.

Iona, just tell me what you're angling for here, exactly, and your reasoning for it;  I'll have an easier time adjudicating things if I know what you're looking for.

I'm not angling for anything specifically, i'm just trying to determine whether including Nar in my Mass Mind Shield would benefit the party. I think morale bonuses would fall under mind-affecting as well?

Oh, I see. I didn't realize that was the intent. Morale bonus are not always Mind-Affecting, but for those that are, if Nar is under the mind-shield, which would have required her to fail the save for it in the first place, the bonus would apply, yes.

 I didn't even think about that! The more I get buffed, the harder it gets to be more buffed...
 I guess it is something that will need to happen outside of combat.

 I don't if we're still waiting on some before we can move on IC.
 Also if the save is a fail, I will use one of my re-rolls ;)

The DC for the save is 26, so if you all agree that it's not mind-affecting, it is indeed a fail. Hence my questioning over whether that would cause protests. So, if you want to use a re-roll, by all means, go ahead.

I've just had a lot to do, but I'll have an update up tomorrow for certain.

Forget magic. The real sorcery in this game is remembering all the rules!

In reply to Supervisor of reality (msg # 681):
 That is if I’m aware of the effect right?
 If I’m unaware I get a further +4 insight bonus :)
 (Nar purposefully not looking towards incoming danger!!)

If this doesn’t apply, I’ll re-roll

I don't see any way that would apply here, you know the enemy is coming and are in fact transporting people at a slower pace than you normally could just to get a good look at what the enemy looks like. I think that's more than fully aware there's serious danger incoming.

Fair enough!!
Nar rolled 31 using 1d20+17 with rolls of 14.  Luck Aegis Re-Roll

As a healer, Iona would generally want to be one of the last teleporting away since she'd need at least some proximity to people she would need to heal if it came to a fight. That said, she'll lower her initiative to match the ally that rolled the lowest. If everyone beats the serpent's roll she'll teleport out with everyone else, of course.

I just read the Julunggali stat block, it would have been a challenging fight!!
They is suspect you edited slightly, seeing as it would have beaten us all on initiative if it were the standard, which is pretty scary seeing as it rolled a 1 !!

Yeah, the standard initiative result for the creature on the sheet wasn't reflected in the creature actual stat - when I counted what it should have, it was +12, rather than +21, and since I couldn't find those extra +9 points, I decided that was a typo. But yeah, the creature would not have been an easy fight, if you had to fight it - or, at least, that's my hope; I did edit a bit the mythic abilities since those grant "immune to all not-mythic stuff", which obviously would not have been viable in your situation.

I'm pretty sure it's:
+4 (improved initiative)
+8 (mythic improved initiative adds Mythic Tier to initiative)
+8 (Amazing Initiative ability at mythic tier 2 grants bonus equal to tier to initiative)
+1 (dex)

I'm glad we got away without a fight though, I think that would have been a much tougher fight than the mithral golem.

I see! I didn't realize the Mythic ability added the bonus twice. Still, that's the sort of mythic absurdity I was mentioning, so even if I had realized, I would likely only have counted it once, on account of limiting the amount of mythic power I was allowing the creature to have.

But yes, it was meant to be way stronger than the golem, considering what it was guarding. :)

We really need to get some of that Mythic for ourselves. Somehow.