This is the thread for OOC talk; anybody feel free to introduce yourselves to the other players.

I'll be putting up the ad in the "Player Wanted" board tomorrow (as in, 24 or so hours from now), so if anybody has suggestions or things they want to say, let me know, so that I can make sure to take your choices into account when I craft the ad.

I'll be aiming for recruiting enough people to have a team of seven, which in my experience is a good starting number.

Sounds good, looking forward to it.

Nice to meet you btw Soul Weaver.

And good day to you as well :P

Still working on my sheet, but i have a good idea of where i should be going with it, so things are looking good. How far are you along?

Same here. I am thinking about story right now, it's fun.

I'm about to post the "players wanted" ad.

I'll give people two weeks to submit RTJ before closing the application process, and I'll likely need one more week after that to finalize the character concepts of the people who'll be accepted - as you two have already seen, there's a lot of stuff to discuss when creating an high level PF character, so it takes a bit to get everybody settled.

As a result, the game should officially be starting in three weeks, assuming everything goes well.

Sounds good.

Yep. Should take a couple of weeks of asking questions before i finally hand Supervisor enough info to count as a concept, so that sounds about right :P

Hehe I lucked out and got some headway with my concept. So I'm pretty far already with my character.

Looks nice, though that metallic body makes me think i should pick up Esoteric Healing if it's what i think it is (construct)? :)

Created (sphere) race, meaning only construct subtype. I don't think it interferes with normal healing.

Indeed it doesn't, as you're still primarily humanoid. If a drawback as big as "can't be healed" was part of your package, it'd be mentioned on the race page; since it isn't, I'm ruling it's fine.

You might want to pick your avatar though, or else I'll need to do so for you.

Eh, depends on how construct-y you are. Either you're alive enough to be healed by positive energy, dead enough to be healed by negative energy or you're stuck with Repair from the Creation Sphere.

Or Esoteric Healing, which would specifically allow me to use Life abilities (a.k.a. heals) on constructs and undead since it's no longer using positive energy.

Edit: Ninja'd :P

She's of the Created race, which is basically a type of Cyborg race. So, with mechanical parts, and artificially built rather than born, but still primarily living creatures.

http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/created
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:41, Fri 14 Jan 2022.

Felt like sharing:

Lol

Question for our Overlord: I can't find anywhere in the rules what the rule is for Natural 1's on a Concentration check, if it's an automatic miss even if your check meets the DC?

On the forums there are people arguing that the Natural 1 rules only mention attack -and saving rolls specifically, so it wouldn't count on Concentration rolls. Since it seems to be a matter of interpretation and preference, I'll leave it up to you to make a solid ruling, so we know where we stand on that.

In general, unless the rules say so, a 1 is not an automatic failure; as far as I'm aware, the rules only have the 1 autofail/20 autosucceed for Saves and Attack Rolls. They don't have them for Skill rolls, and while Concentration rolls aren't skill rolls, I couldn't find anything saying they had autofail rules either. So, no, a natural 1 isn't necessarily an automatic failure on concentration check.

Keep in mind that Concentration checks in Spheres are treated slightly differently than in Vancian, due to the lack of spell levels:

Okidoki thanks for the clarification.

So, I'm officially announcing that the time to submit RTJ has now currently closed. I received 16 RTJ, and the majority of those were very good; enough so, in fact, that I decided to expand the number of players I'll be accepting from 5 to 7 (that's in addition to the two I already had when I created the game for them). Any more than that would be impossibly unwieldy.

That still means that at least 9 people will be left disappointed that they were rejected, which I'm very sad about because there's a lot more than 7 RTJ which I thought were really quite good and, in different circumstances, I would have easily admitted to the game. Unfortunately, it is in the nature of PF games to generate a lot of interest and thus to result in people who presented a pretty good concept that had no real weak points of its own to be overshadowed by those whose pretty good concept had something extra and unique going for it. I apologize to anybody who will feel slighted.

I have already read every single submitted RTJ, including the one that was submitted one minute before the deadline, and I have a general idea of who I'll be admitting, but I'm going to sleep now, and will re-read every single one in the morning, which is eight hour from now for me, before making a final decision.

Throughout the day, I will be admitting the people who will make it, but once I'm done with that I will also personally inform every single person who didn't make it as to why I couldn't accept their submission, which hopefully will make the rejections understandable, even if not pleasant. I'm stating this to let people know that I will answer to everyone, although with the people who won't be accepted being contacted later. I hope that will keep anybody from building up false hopes.

While that part of the message was for the people who submitted their RTJ and will be expecting an answer - this is a public thread so everybody should be able to read it - I also need to start the process of building the actual team that will be playing in the game, which is what the rest of this message is about.

Ay and Iona, I would like if you could start that off by making a small post to give the new players a general idea of what your character will be like from a personality and specialization standpoint, emphasizing their most unique traits. That should help in making everybody understand what they should complement as I finalize the character builds of whichever people will be admitted with them; I will be asking them to do the same so that a better coordination between members of the team can be achieved, since I don't want people to double up on things and would rather prefer everybody to have their own established niches, both from a mechanics and from a personality standpoint.

I also hope that seeing the team composition being showcased in this manner will help anybody who is rejected understand my picks as I make them, and why that's not meant as a slight to any specific characters: having characters that could synergize well with each other is an important factor to decide which characters to admit, and that's something that hinges on multiple aspects at once.

Good night to everybody; I'll be back in eight hours to start re-reviewing the RTJ and letting people into the game.
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:46, Fri 28 Jan 2022.

Certainly.

First off, welcome to any new players, and to those that didn't make it i hope i'll meet you in another RP in the future :)

As for Iona, she is a Dhampir Cleric (well, Dual Channeler Soul Weaver, but...), able to channel both positive and negative energy. She can infuse them with additional healing, and damaging effects on enemies. Dhampir heal from negative energy and are damaged by positive, but she can 'reverse her polarity' so to speak, so allow me to point out now that this will not be an issue to the party.

She's also a pretty decent party 'face', especially with her ability to take 20s on Diplomacy rolls and some mind-affecting Charm shenanigans. That said however, i am not at all experienced at playing high level characters, so i'll be in need of your support as members of the party :)
This message was last edited by the player at 00:25, Sat 29 Jan 2022.

Exciting that we're getting more team members!!

Ay Matra is a grappling specialist. She's a small Created (half construct) that used to be an assassin but she managed to get out from under the thumb of her master and now lives amongst friends as a martial artist. She's naturally curious and wants to understand people around her, as she spent so much time in isolation as a killing machine.

Mechanically she can teleport and be stealthy and scout, as well as dominate a single enemy in combat through grappling.

For everyone: due to the type of game this is, rings of sustenance are recommended (even though you might have already come to the same conclusion). Aside from that we'd need a way to be able to rest/sleep safely. It's possible that the warp sphere can help with that and maybe someone already has that covered in their build. I wanted to kick off the debate on how we can solve that particular in-game challenge.

Hi everyone!

Verik is a swordsman, all about glory and heroism and proving himself.

Mechanically he's good at offensive magic and melee combat in synergy, and particularly good at dealing with magic-users.

Getting a Ring of Sustenance is easy enough, we have enough treasure that an item to make a Warp realm should be doable?
This message was last edited by the player at 12:09, Sat 29 Jan 2022.

Hello, everyone. I'll be your party's perfectly ordinary librarian for this adventure.

Diata is a scholar from a crumbling clan-based society, currently on the team for some way to save the Republic of Sakuna before the Hell Knights overrun her land again. And because, y'know, Asmodeus' victory in a big divine contest would be really bad.

Mechanically, let's see. She'll be the group's trapsmith and disarmer, she can assist with healing through mundane means, she has a massive array of debuffs she can lay down on the enemy, and she's particularly well-suited for ruining an enemy mage's day. (Fun fact...most casting traditions include verbal components. Verbal components are hard to recite when there's a strangling noose around your neck.) In town, she's a pretty excellent face conversationally, though she's not very good for Gather Information diplomacy and not ideal at Intimidate either. Most iconically, she has read the Monster Manual back to front and can tell you what any enemy is and how to kill it. (Scout sphere ftw.) She's a very good archer, but she would very much appreciate it if the big, meaty and heavily-armored characters would stay between her and the enemy. She's a li'l squishy.

Overlap-wise, I see her pushing a bit into Iona's niche with her healing abilities and as a face (though Iona probably has broader capability in the latter area), and into Ay's niche with the scouting part, and can help Verik in locking down magic users. I don't think this is a problem, but since the GM asked I'm mentioning it. (I, uh, have a lot of areas of expertise.)

Also, if anyone has the Time sphere as a major focus, please tell me. I might have a way to get it, but it's not concept-core, and I definitely don't want to take it if it'd grab anyone else's niche. (I'm actually not committed to it even if it isn't - it's only vaguely in-theme.)
This message was last edited by the player at 12:58, Sat 29 Jan 2022.

I don't have a Ring of Sustenance, though food and water are easy enough to get: In Spheres, it's the Creation Sphere plus the Sustenance Talent, and one person with it should be able to provide for the entire group. I don't have that Sphere myself though, but in terms of sleeping conditions i can step into a tree for 9 hours so my sleep is relatively safe. :P

I did make arrangements to act as an always active communications hub for every party member within 100 ft. of me though, so that should help when relaying messages from the scouts to the rest of the party.

I was going to take the Ring of Sustenance just so that I could get by on 2 hours of sleep and have free time to check star charts. :P

Salutations!

September, or more formally the Duke and Lord Protector of the September Forests, is a magical warhammer, forged by a servant of Achaekek.

He'll be a competent melee combatant but mostly specialize in large-scale magic from the Weather sphere, with some dabbling in Warp and Conjuration so that he can get around.  With good reach, decent disabling effects, and low damage over time, I suppose I'm the cloud controller of the party.
I was also originally going to make him a bit of a combat face (using material like Change of Heart and Instant Friendship).  I'm seeing several other people with high face skills, though, so that might get adjusted depending on whether "subterfuge" wins the poll and how much we plan to split the group.
It's good to know Iona will be our communications relay; that saves me from needed Whispering Wind.
It looks like we have something of a dearth of High-Casters, so I'll try to cover more utility; are there any spheres that we particularly need?

All but one of the RTJ (not of those I admitted, I mean of the whole 18 I received) voted for Subterfuge, so yeah, that one won, and you'll be finding towns within the area. You might however be surprised by their nature. Hopefully it'll be interesting.

Hey, everyone! Banner is a somewhat vengeful Halfling foundling, raised by the faithful Dwarven mercenaries of the Sunhomed, a warrior band, and the repository for their spirits since their final stand at the Ohmen Pass. You might see him muttering to himself, or those inner voices

He is a frontline fighter - carrying the banner staff he bore on that fateful day - and uses a mix of dirty tricks, intimidation, and rage, surrounded by their swirling spirits and summoning those few who retain enough of their sense of self. He can play the role of battlefield controller, (de)buffer, and skill monkey, with a side of the face for when you want folks lent on.

It sounds like there's a pretty solid balance in melee, especially on the maneuvers and complementary styles and buffs side of things. Likewise, between us we cover the different aspects of Face nicely. September, one of Banner's fallen would be honoured to wield you into battle if need be!

Mechanically, he's a Halfling Draugr with Conjuration and a Intimidate-Rage-DirtyTricks mix, so a little of your Swiss Army Army. He brings his fallen friends to the party, and isn't shy of possessing those we're up against to have them fight for us either
This message was last edited by the player at 15:17, Sat 29 Jan 2022.

Not that i can immediately think of.

From the looks of it, we've got a decent amount of support and crowd controllers (myself included), but not much in the way of focusing down a strong opponent. I can load my Channel Energy up with Mana Syphon so my spell point expenditures are a lot more lenient in combat than those of most people, but single opponents are going to be a problem.

I do have Greater Invigorate, Deeper Healing and Mass Healing, so that means for two spell points i can load the entire party up with 45 Temp HP over their max, and at the start of battle i can drop a Powerful Mind Shield to get everyone outright immune to mind affecting that requires Will saves for roughly 15 rounds. That should give us a decent margin for errors, though having someone with the Protection Sphere to layer some additional defenses would be nice: My class only has one strong save.

In reply to Iona de Orasaigh (msg # 30):

I can shut down single opponents pretty easily with flashbangs, snares and arrows - crowd control is weaker for me (though I'll probably have some antigroup bombs). I'm generally going to be better at, for example, screwing over squishy full casters who suck at Reflex and Fortitude saves.

As for THP, ahh...I can do 87 (tentatively) at the start of the day. Can't do group heals as fast as you though - my heals are one target per action.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:42, Sat 29 Jan 2022.

While a bit more unusual than most from an aesthetic perspective that is not the oddest thing about Cube.  What is most unusual is that he isn't designed as a character to be effective on his own, but instead to augment the effectiveness of everyone around him.  He can't heal but he can double the healing used in a large area, he cant fight but he makes everyone else fight better, that sort of thing.

There will at some point be an array of long term personal augmentation features for each of you to pick from, and at least one set of temporary augments to draw from a shared pool in combat that we will find a way to make easy to incorporate and remember.

Hi hi.

Ludovic is a transformation specialist. He can change his body favoring giant and dragon typed forms as he was mostly around when the two races ruled the world. But he also has a laundry list of abilities that can be turned off and on, as long as he has seen it done before.

His limitation is time, takes time to swap abilities and forms. So if we don't have a trap finder we just have to expose Ludovic to a creature with trap sense. So if there is a gap in what the group can do its best that he can fill it rather than people thinning themselves out.

So in effect, you've got a monster in your pocket with a small pool of abilities that can be tailored to the party's needs.

Hi all!

Halasik is a Tatulani Elementalist. He doesn't like talking about his own history, but it was not happy, or particularly good. You get the sense that he is adventuring as much to try and achieve redemption then for any reward.

Mechanically, in combat he primarily focuses on melee with single, hard-hitting attacks that stack on spell effects and spheres of might attack actions. However he can do ranged or even area of effect as well as backup. I can definitely cover the tank and focus on a single target things.
Out of combat, he's got a fair bit invested in the nature sphere, which gives his some druidy-themed tricks. I could go either wisdom or intelligence based for casting. He's definitely *not* a face, although I may take intimidate.

Well, so far i can say that i'd be lying if i said i wasn't interested in taking a look at the feats and talent combinations. GM, can we or would this be too meta?

I'm fine with you discussing this and planning for it a bit if you want to - I'd make sure nobody is doubling down on somebody else's specialization anyway, so it's not really that much of a problem if you all agree on things together.

Of course, keep in mind that, while you all have a general idea of what's going to happen, you don't actually know enough to make tactical and strategical calls at this point, and there might be benefit in having more than one person able to tackle certain situations, instead of pigeonholing somebody into a single role. It'd also be boring for people if they couldn't do things they wanted to, or weren't able to have a varied experience, because of trying to bend to the needs of the group too much. Finding a balance is best.

So, feel free to discuss things if you want, just don't assume you know everything and try to keep in mind your characters and stay true to what you said they would be like - I choose the people I did because I expected them to build into certain directions after all, and for some of you (including yourself, Iona), what abilities you have is a substantial part of your character's identity.

Sounds like a very interesting mix of beings.

A bit more in depth mechanics of Ay Matra:
Her main mechanical goal is to grapple and coup de grace enemies of all sizes. She can use SP bursts to do that all in one round, but can't do that too many times a day to conserve SP (so potentially 2 rounds per fight).

There are however creatures that are immune to being coup de graced:
- Aeon subtype
- Elemental subtype
- Incorporeal subtype
- Ooze
- Undead
- Construct
- Swarms

Against these creature types, she uses the Light Sphere with Searing Light to deal damage over time against them (she has a way to exclude friendly targets from this damage). Grappling can then still be used to control them (except swarms), just not kill them efficiently. If there are Dark Sphere users: I took the Black Light talent not to interfere with that.

On the "safe spot to sleep topic":
Agreed with previous poster that Ring of Sustenance is mainly useful for only requiring 2 hours of sleep. If the whole group grabs that ring, we are only "vulnerable" and risk being found for 2 hours per day, which obviously is a big gain vs 8 hours per day.
For the entire group to be able to rest safely at all times, the Warp Sphere offers:
- The Extradimensional Room (space): the downside of this is that it's a portal that can be dispelled by enemies if they find it, and enemies can force their way in with a strength check. So all in all, not a great solution.
- Create Demiplane: awesome solution, but possible that plane shifting won't be allowed by GM. Another downside is that it would require quite a deep investment as this is an Advanced Talent.
- Extradimensional Torpor: another Advanced Talent, could also solve the problem but has the downside of being SP cost intensive for a big party like ours.

Does anyone feel comfortable considering these talents?
Any full caster already deep into the Warp Sphere?
This message was last edited by the player at 21:43, Sat 29 Jan 2022.

One more level and i'll be able to effectively keep the entire party (up to seven people, not including me) safe throughout the night, with minimal chances of detection. It's not through the Warp Sphere though, so in terms of transportation it's limited, and i don't have a Ring of Sustenance myself as my remaining funds are dangerously close to the single digits. I'm just missing a feat and a talent to get it online. And it requires a tree in the area.

@GM: she needs more gold!

If it is just a question of gold are there any things you paid for that are more 'party' use than personal use.

I doubt we can trade items directly but if it is something like a portable hole that anyone could pick up I could probably grab something to free up resources as I don't have a high personal magic item requirement.

Eh, just a matter of gold really.

I mean, sure, i have items that benefit the group as a whole (stuff that helps me be a better face, a self-updating map etc.), but it's not like i'm going to claim that since i have a Type IV Bag of Holding i'm going to charge rent for people to use it.

If someone could bring an extra Ring of Sustenance along for me that'd be gravy, and likewise i have items i could borrow to others if they could make better use of it than i can, but i certainly wouldn't demand people to.

I remember earlier that the GM said we didn't know each other well enough to be making tactical/strategic decisions as a group.  Wouldn't buying magic items for each other be pushing that a bit far?


Anyways, on the subject of group tactical decisions, I'm all in favor of sleeping as little as possible and being safe while we sleep.  I'll have Watchful Companion, in fact, so there'll be at least one entity that can keep watch while we do whatever safe area we choose.
It seems like a lot of areas the gods might send us won't have trees, so we'd need to carry feather tokens.  Or is someone deep enough into Nature to say there'll always be a tree?
I was taking some Warp anyways (you people with legs don't know how good you have it!), so I could spend a talent on extradimensional room. I'm not sure how secure it'd be, though; as far as I can tell, anyone who sees the portal can just walk in?

Banner-- September has an alchemical thingy that carries him around, but if it goes down in a fight, feel free to have something pick September up and use him.  Is one of your fallen good with two-handed weapons?


Oh!  If people are planning mass buff spells, we should talk about targets (I know I'm working on the logistics of Mantling everyone before combat starts so September can use the fun toys in close combat).  We have a party of nine champions.  Beyond that, who's going to be in a fight regularly?  September has one Companion (the wielder).

I'm going to be at a safe distance from the melee.

And yeah, magic items and most of the build should be handled individually beyond general acknowledgement of each of our roles. We don't know each other, though we may have heard of each other (I mean, we're a substantial portion of the world's fifteenth-level population).

Not necessarily buying, i was thinking more along the lines of "Hey, we'll be working together, so would you happen to have a spare that i can borrow", or like the Bag of Holding, using it for party resources rather than have everyone carry their own, and balancing it out via loot distribution later on.

Halasik has no companions, it's just me.

I'll have a ring of sustenance, but don't have any ability to make interdimensional safehouses or anything like that.

Someone mentioned creating trees, I have nature but I'm going for the spirit powers, not geomancing (took the drawback for that), so I can't help with that.

Even without the trees i could still make sure you couldn't be targeted, it'd just be somewhat harder for that to apply to me as well. One of my items enables me to step inside a tree and remain there for up to 9 hours, or teleport to a similar tree within range, and i could sleep in there while i'd keep the rest of you in an extradimensional space.

That was the setup, anyway, but the part about the trees is admittedly more for my own safety than yours.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:39, Sun 30 Jan 2022.

Y'know, we could always set watches like ordinary people.

We are not normal people!


...that said, I did take Watchful Companion with a similar idea.

Oh come now, just because i take 'sleeping in the trees' a bit literally... :P

It's a good way to get people to leaf you alone.

In reply to Diata Yuari (msg # 47):

Kind of anachronistic for a fantasy world.

In reply to Verik (msg # 51):

We've got a robot in the party. I think that ship has sailed.

Advanced warforge or straight-up robot?

Fair point.  I was just going for the low-hanging pun.

In reply to Ludovic (msg # 53):

Ay is a half-Construct i believe (good luck explaining that to your parents), though considering i'm technically half Undead myself that just means she'll fit right in ;)

Ludo is a Shabti, manufactured person, so I think he would get along with the two. =)

In reply to Verik (msg # 54):

...I totally missed that. I hang my head in shame.

Aye, his primary is a Dwarf

His main power sphere is Conjuration, so he is likely to have one or two others. Still working through the finer points of his build

In terms of tactics, his focus on possession and summoning on one hand and then dirty tricks, intimidate and rage on the other.

No strong opinion on sleeping or eating, yet, other than being a halfling the possibility of missing not only first but second breakfast would normally be problematic. Given he was raised by dwarves, you might get away with it :)

On another subject, how are everyone's senses? It'd be good to know if we can fight well in the dark or not as a team.
Ay Matra has Darkvision 60ft, Low-light vision & Blindsense 15ft

Verik has Darkvision 120.

GM: Could you open our sheets and give us the format you want us to use? Thanks!

Btw up until now I've been keeping my character's main skill hidden. Ay Matra will act as the party's cook ...
This message was last edited by the player at 08:44, Sun 30 Jan 2022.

If everyone has a ring of sustenance that will be an easy job.

Food is about more than just sustenance Cube!

You will not all be coming from the same plane, dimension, or planet; this will in fact be a relevant point for some of yours backstories. The beginning of the contest will be the moment when you first will be meeting each other, for the most part.

I'm willing to allow some coordination in abilities on the basis that you would have been selected by gods who knew you'd complement each other, but in character the fact that you fit together so well will not be intentional on your characters' part, merely on the gods' part.
This message was last edited by the GM at 09:25, Sun 30 Jan 2022.

I've got Low-light vision, darkvision 60 ft. and i can see invisible and ethereal creatures.

Oh -- should also mention that i do not get dazzled in areas of bright light. And i can talk to rats, bats and wolves and use Charm on them, and especially the rats would make nifty little spies in an intrigue game ;)

Oh my that does sound very very useful. Rats are everywhere in towns.

Oh I forgot to mention that Ay Matra has True Sight from the Scout Sphere.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:03, Sun 30 Jan 2022.

Halasik has a magic item that grants a constant see in darkness ability. And he can activate mistsight, tremorsense, greensight, and watersense on himself.
I can't talk with animals like Iona, but I can use a spellpoint to gain the ability to talk to clouds, stones, plants, and bodies of water, which i think complements her nicely. Oh, and I know almost 40 languages, so there's that. That does mean that I do have to pick out all 40 languages though...

Same here, a Helm of Comprehend languages and Read Magic is a steal at 5,200 gold, so i just wrote "Languages: all" and called it a day :P

https://aonprd.com/MagicWondro...20and%20Read%20Magic

While it does say 'any creature', i didn't ask whether that included animals as well, but the rats, bats and wolves thing is from a Dhampir's alternate racial trait. Has the added benefit of having them start out at indifferent too, so they would at the very least be willing to hear me out.

Good luck picking 40 languages, I could only find a list of 34 and it seemed fairly complete.

As for 'vision' Cube doesn't have eyes so probably won't even notice the difference between light and dark situations, that does however limit his ability to detect things at extreme distances.

Cube is also Psychic themed, and equipped with a reasonably effective form of telepathy that can act as a party network sort of thing, so if we need to do any stealth missions where sound can be a problem that should help a bit, and still allow for some bickering/RP.

Cube, for coordination purposes, what's the details of that party network of yours?

Mine has a range of 100 feet, no limitation on number of people as long as they're carrying a holy symbol of Khepri (who we're all working for anyway), at a permanent duration. They just need to have it on their person and be in range and we can talk straight into each others minds.

Come to think of it, GM, does that apply when i'm sleeping or otherwise unable to act as well, or do i need to actively relay?

I have the same basic function and can boost it to a longer range temporarily, but the cost on that excludes a bunch of other options that are likely a lot more effective.

Well, no harm in having overlap either way, so that one failed save won't end up knocking out our entire communication network.

It only overlaps if we stand next to each other, it can work as nodes in an extended environment, although it won't likely come up very often unless we do a lot more complicated map use than most text games do.

It's possible that our group gets split up, so some overlap might actually be great.

That's a good point-- nine is a lot of people for a dungeon crawl.  GM, are we likely to be allowed to split up?


As far as senses, September has... eyes... and... yeah.  I'm looking at magic items to fix that; he'll have at least darkvision by the time I finish.

If the team wants to split up at any point, I will not stop you from doing so. You might want to do it, or not, as befits the strategic situation. To explain more would spoil things that I'd rather reveal organically throughout the game. I will say that splitting the party is not necessarily going to be a bad idea in every circumstances, so long as you're aware of the potential risks.

In reply to September (msg # 76):

I believe there's a trait called Blood of Dragons that can grant low-light vision, i think that's by far the easiest way to gain a method of sight, and the cheapest since no feats, Talents, equipment slots or even gold are required.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/trait...ts/blood-of-dragons/

After some discussion with one player, I realized I needed to add a new rule for equipment; to its core, the point of the rule is that I don't want to allow for stacking large amounts of numerical bonuses through spreading "luck", "insight", "competence", "morale", "sacred" and "profane" copies of the same effect across worn items slots. So, in the interest of that, I'm willing to let any player have ONE such effect on one of their items per relevant statistic (saves, AC, attack rolls, etc). So, if you have an item granting a "sacred" bonus to AC greater than +1, you can't have any other items providing such bonuses. +1 bonus I'm willing to let stack, so long as they don't raise above a +3 total.

Additionally, I just recently realized that I didn't make a specific point of what I meant when I said that I would not allow items with "large bonuses" to skill. That wasn't entirely unintentional, as I reserve the right to remove any amount of bonus if I think it doesn't suit the item or character, but as a general rule, anything about "+3" is a large bonus in my eyes, and I will raise concern if items with larger bonuses are requested; extremely circumstantial items might receive more leniency than general ones.

I will be adding this to the House Rules thread so that everybody has a reference, but if anybody has objection to raise to this point, you might do so here; I'd like for everybody to offer their opinion before I update, so that I can take any objections under consideration.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:11, Sun 30 Jan 2022.

No real objections here, though as far as i know spells can stack a fair amount of bonuses as well.

As an aside, the only item with a skill bonus over +2 that i have are my spectacles, with a +5 in Linguistics. I know you went over my equipment list already, but i'd like to confirm whether that was niche enough to be okay or if you simply missed it?

I allowed that one because it's conditional - you can't use it on all linguistic checks, only on ones to detect forgeries or locate loopholes on a contract. If it was indiscriminate, or bigger, I wouldn't have allowed it, but as I said above, I'm willing to let slightly higher bonuses in cases when they are very restricted in application.

Similarly, I might allow a +5 to diplomacy toward people of a specific faith, but not to all general uses of diplomacy. The general idea is that, the narrower the bonus' application, the more willing I might be to let it go.

In reply to Supervisor of reality (msg # 79):

I'm fine with this.

That said, I think it should only apply to bonuses from your own items, with others stacking normally (in keeping with the paladin theme, I was looking at a set of Rallying armor, for instance, which gives nearby allies a +4 morale bonus vs fear).

In terms of senses and teamwork, Banner's final build has some dips into Dark and War to emphasise some of his theme.

Where I think things come out is that he has Darkvision sometimes, and that he brings with him a mobile sphere of darkness/totem that allows a designated subset of party members (and companions) to share a versatile set of teamwork feats

He will have three main companions, and a few utility item-bound ones, so what are folks' thoughts on where they would be helpful? Likely to have one the following, but not fixed
- Grungi, a Martial/Gladiator/Guardian type to feed Banner's talents and act as a Debuffer and Tank
- Tiny flying scout
- Disposable diminutive scouts

In reply to September (msg # 82):

I think Iona already pointed out that magic can easily add much more bonus to stuff; the thing with magic is that it can be countered or dispelled, and has a resource cost. Equipment, on the other hand, is more difficult to interfere with, and while there are characters you'll be facing who'll totally mess with it (say, Steal and Sunder experts, for example), it's inherently more difficult to create challenges where that's relevant. And bonus-granting items in particular make other challenges easier to overcome, so it's a compounding effect; I'm fine with it to an extent, I just don't want anybody to be overly reliant on things.

If you have one single item that has a constant effect that boost allies, that's not a problem; if you have twelve that stack with each other is where I'll raise concerns. The point isn't about not having bonuses at all, is about a single person stacking too many of them together. If you as a team want to coordinate to potentially help each other, I'm fine with that, because that's a tactic your characters would be using, and one I can counter (by having situation trying to separate you) in a way that a stack of static bonuses you carry around just can't be.

I hope that makes sense?

In reply to Supervisor of reality (msg # 84):

Yes, that's fine.  I was mostly worried that I'd need to ask everyone for a list of their bonus types before picking an item that would apply an effect to the whole party.

Hey September:
I saw you were going weather-sphere focused. I was thinking of dabbling in that, focused purely on creating cold. Would that be a conflict? Don't want to step on your shoes, and it's not really Halasik's primary focus.

Nah, it's fine.  September creates all kinds of weather.  Will you be using any mantles or shrouds?

After talking with the GM, I think I'm not going weather after all.

Did he want to remain the master of the weather??

I think I am done at least picking Cube's powers now, and am starting to sort through how they will actually work.  Several of them do nothing on their own but augment each of you in some way.

To that end I am thinking I will make a list of effects each of you can pick from and strip out all the extra data, combine all the combined options, and just present them in a single post in a thread intended for this sort of thing.

I heard somewhere that teamwork feats were being shared, that kind of thing could go in the same thread.  Unless someone has a better idea of how to present such things?

Google sheet?

Another game i was in had a separate thread called 'Active Effects' where each player would make a single list of all the spells and buffs they would put on themselves (and others) during their daily morning routine after a long rest, and then edit accordingly when they got new 'all day' abilities.

Still firming it up with the GM, but it won't require any feats from other members of the team (and it will be limited in a number of ways). Will share when/if it's confirmed

One of my options is to share with everyone one feat that any one person has, so if you have a feat that is universally good or in some way massively self cumulative it would be good to generate a list of those.  But there are a lot of details yet to work out for everyone I suspect.

I probably should point out, Banner and Cube, that you both have the War sphere; and, in a most fortuitous combination, you both picked an almost entirely different selection of talents, meaning you cover a lot more options between the two of you. Overall, I don't think you really need to worry too much about the possibility of lacking shared boosts; you really have more then enough magical buff options available.

We will have to keep in mind the bonus types however, and the core War sphere itself offers some stuff that might not be 100% self cumulative, but I imagine we each have plenty of other options and can split that sort of thing among multiple targets easily enough.

Cube: Halasik mostly has feats that either everyone who needs them already has (power attack, vital strike, etc) or that are highly specialized (Mage of Ice and Rime, Imbue with Nature, etc.)
The one that might be useful but not widely taken is Robustness: http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/general-feats#toc36
Could be used in or out of combat to make mass-healings more cost-effective.


Speaking of party-wide buffs, I have a bunch of buffs from the Nature sphere that can I can apply to the whole party. This includes resistance to acid, cold, sonic, DR, natural armor, tremorsense, cloud sight, swim and climb speeds, and enhancements to all speeds.

Of the feats that might be useful to share, I've got: Throat Slicer, Extend Spell, 3.5 version of Persistent Spell (only works on spells cast on yourself), Giantslayer + Titan Breaker (they combined into 1 feat), and Extra Combat Talent (True Sight). Although for the last one, I don't know if it's sharable to everyone without taking the prerequisites. But if it is, it's magnificent.

Ay Matra has only 1 party buff, which is an aggressive implement, meaning +5 insight bonus to initiative for all who are within 30ft of her.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:31, Mon 31 Jan 2022.

In terms of feats... Couple Channel Energy related ones, some Necrosis ones and a sprinkling of build specific stuff, so i don't really have anything worth sharing: Force Shield may be nice to some, but that goes off of Sphere CL, and Necrosis by the number of Necrosis feats you'd have, so there really isn't much here to make use of.

What is "Titan Breaker" from? I can't find it?

It's a combat feat from the "practitioner feats" list; I believe it was printed in a book from the same developers who created Sphere, but one that they published before spheres. Its prereq. is Giantslayer, but I feel like it's perfectly fine to fold them both into a single feat that scales.

Link below.

http://spheresofpower.wikidot....titioner-feats#toc79
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:19, Mon 31 Jan 2022.

Got it, nice. Neat feat for the right build, and might be useful for the whole party if we find ourselves up against giants or something.

@Cube: Can't help too much with feats; my feats are mostly build-related and useless to others (Mantled Caster, Companion Warp, Watchful Companion, etc).

That said, does your ability ignore prerequisites when granting the feat?  If so, it might be worth one person taking one good Teamwork feat like Butterfly Sting or Escape Route just to share (I might be able to shake one feat free for that).

@Buffs: September will Mantle all of the PCs; once he builds up a storm, everyone will be getting
Clear Skies (Mantles reduce severity of weather)
Lightning Rod (Mantles grant electric damage to melee attacks in storm, bonus to Ref vs lightning)
Borne Aloft (Mantles grant fly speed in wind)
Mistform (Mantles gain miss chance in precipitation)
This Sparks Joy (Morale to hit, damage, and Will in storm)

Does the overlap with anyone?  Is someone already doing morale to hit/damage, in particular?

Depends on the type. Serendipity (Fate Sphere) is pretty good to have on something, though it requires some specifics to reduce spell point drain (Easy Focus boon to concentrate as a move action instead of a standard one), though it applies for Draw Magic as well which can buff CL somewhat.

With Greater Serendipity, it's +1 to a bunch of stuff to all allies and -1 to that same stuff for enemies, so the equivalent of a +2, or +3 with Fate's Favored as it's a luck bonus. I don't have it on Iona since i didn't have the room for it though.

The feat sharing does ignore prerequisites, but it isn't free or persistent so it is just an optional thing when other options aren't better.  It isn't something to devote additional resources to as I get it automatically along with a bunch of other and often better things.

I have a cracked green ioun stone that grants me a morale bonus to attack rolls, saving throws, and all skill and ability checks. I'll probably keep it even if there are some times when your mantle renders part of its bonuses redundant.

Redundancy is good anyway - you won't always be able to deploy your full resources in all situations.

True.

We've been doing a bunch of comparing to avoid overlap of abilities, do we want to do comparing of relative power levels/optimization as well? If one person has an AC in the 20s and another in the 50s, or if two of the melee fighters have significantly different attack/damage bonuses, it would be hard for the GM to properly challenge everyone.

Still working on that.

Is anyone doing Mass Aegis's?
This message was last edited by the player at 04:47, Tue 01 Feb 2022.

How's everyone coming along with your builds? Anyone stuck? Here to help if you are.

I believe Banner is coming on solidly; few minor tweaks and some viability checks to make sure I've not missed anything obvious, like picking up skills necessary for spellcasting! His build is complicated, hopefully not too much so!

Complicated builds are sort of unavoidable when building a lv 15th character, so don't worry too much about it.

Also, in case I forgot to tell somebody, all the character sheet except Ludovic (as we're still working on some details of his character, which is the most complicated of the whole team) have been made user editable, even if a few people have to give me their item choices yet - I feel like having the rest of the structure is good enough to start filling things up, and items always take the most time anyway.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:25, Wed 02 Feb 2022.

That's good progress. Filling in the sheet can take some time, although it made me realize a hole in my build, so I'm thankful for realising it then.

My character isn't that complicated at all. Just manhandle things rolling grapple checks.

Hopefully that rolls nicely with Banner's debuffing CMD and reducing foes to quivering cowering wrecks!

I think Halasik is basically done. I have like 8000 GP left over, but I'll probably just keep it as cash for emergency spending/bribes.

Halasik is a pretty flexible character in combat, with all of the complexity that entails. He can switch combat styles from two handed to two-weapon fighting, has several options to spend Spell Points to increase damage, and also can make some area of effect ranged attacks with debuffing riders.

Ay, Just out of curiosity... What was the hole?

As for me, i'm done with my sheet as well. It ended up how i imagined it would, not sure how effective it's going to be compared to everyone else, but eager to find out :)

Everybody is very effective, in my opinion, and the builds are different enough it should work fine; even Verik and Hasalik, who are the team's two combat mages and thus have a somewhat similar setup, have made quite different choices once one goes into details.

@Iona: I was missing a talent from the illusion tree (lingering illusion) for the 3.5 persistent spell feat to be able to actually work on the blur talent, without requiring concentration on it all day. I realized that while writing out what my abilities do in the sheet.

Build done, need to move stuff over to the character sheet.  Sort of amazed to hear mine's not the most complicated build.  :p

A different version of initiative posting occurred to me a while back but I haven't had a chance to test it.  What if each round the GM made a post in each character's name in the correct order, then we edit it to fit, then once all but one is filled out the last person has 48 hours to do theirs?

I'm not sure how that's different from me just posting a list of the order you need to post into, other than being more complicated.

It lets people post whenever they are available, keeps the posts in order, and reduces the waiting time.

But it doesn't let people react to what's done by the people who go before then, which is the entire point of going in order. At that point I might as well just say "all players go, then all enemies go", and I don't want to do that, because it reduces the tactical complexity of the battles.

Also, in my experience, this system really doesn't slow things down all that much; in my games, fights actually go by far quicker than planning and conversation based sections, because by having a clear "you go next" order, I can force people to post, whereas in planning and conversation, people hold up due to some weird hesitation to contribute or uncertainty of what to do or whatever other reason, and the game stalls.

So... when you say me "that way everybody can post when they can/want", my instinctive reaction to that is "man, that's gonna double or triple the time a fight will take", which makes it a negative, not a positive, in my mind.

I hope that doesn't come across as too arrogant on my part? I wouldn't have suggested this system if I didn't think it was the quickest way to handle things.

I have seen some versions of each, and have never tested this one.  It could go badly, but if people need to wait for each post there is a minimum speed you can't get past, and you can always edit reactions if someone does something unexpected before you.

I never tried out the initiative system either, but I'm willing to give it a go and see what happens. The key to this system is probably the hard rule of GM taking over characters of people who haven't posted in 48 hours. I saw a lot of GM's saying they're gonna do it, but then when push comes to shove, not actually coming through.

Seems like we all care about having a smooth game and I'm very curious to experience this particular initiative system in play.

In reply to Cube (msg # 124):

In my opinion, you just risk the OOC becoming a mess with 'crap, x blasted the enemy i was going to attack while i was typing, so now i need to scrap my post and start over' and 'Yeah, i know y moved, but i'm ahead of him in the initiative order so he'd have been in range while i cast it so his HP is actually this'.

It can go well, but mostly for parties that are lower level and have like 3-5 people in them since those fights don't tend to be as complex.

Probably best to start slow anyway until we get used to how we work both individually and as a team.

I think it makes sense to try the "posting in order" method, and if it doesn't work we can adjust.

I have no objection to the posting in order method.

@Ay-- Mostly finished with my main build.  There are never enough talents...  At this point, I'm doing equipment and the build for my conjuration sphere companion.

@Banner-- Doing a demoralize build?  I was roughing in the same on my companion; what approach are you taking?  I'm flipping between Cornugon Smash, Enforcer, and the Gladiator Sphere AoE talents.

Lol I know right ... never enough talents ... and I'm working with a Low Caster ... although the many feats do help. Btw maybe you're already aware of this, and just in case you're not yet, you can get a Magic Talent Implement to get you more talents for 8k:  http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/implements#toc59
This message was last edited by the player at 19:50, Wed 02 Feb 2022.

I'm aware, but it's good to point out.  On a related note, I've been informed that the cost for a one-talent implement is 16,000gp (3^2*2000-2000) rather than 8000gp, so budget accordingly.

Hmm I went off this from the Automatic Bonus Progression, at the bottom there's a table outlining that a +2 magic weapon / implement would cost 8k: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamem...ic_Weapons_and_Armor

Talent is a +2 ability, but we need to buy a +3 weapon then deduct the +1 price.  I had this come up too.

@GM does this count for all magic weapons / armor / implements? Or just for Magic Talent Implements?

Huh, didn't know about those, actually.





- "Excuse me sir, would you spare a moment to talk about our Lord and Saviour Khepri?"

Just for implements which have magic talents, specifically because otherwise you'd be able to buy yourself a dozen extra magic spheres and that would both be unbalancing and make everybody's build less interesting as the increase in talents lead to more homogenization.

To clarify, so we're all on the same page:

An implement with a single magic talent and nothing else costs 16'000 gp. With two, it's 48'000 gp, which means you would be better off buying two implements with one talent each (that's 32'000 go), than one implement with two.

This is important because, even if you can wear them all at once, you can only benefit from one implement at a time. So even if you have a large selection, you need to decide round by round which one is best, and that would add a layer of tactical complexity instead of simply letting you all buy your way into the talents you wanted with gold.

I hope that makes sense for everybody?
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:07, Wed 02 Feb 2022.

Thanks for clarifying. In that case I need to let go of my magic talent implement and think about what to do with my 8k :p

Yes, he is; tricks and scariness since I’m combining Gladiator, Scoundrel and Dark. It’s mostly reactions and chains I think. Still figuring some of it out!

Fear is fun :D

Btw out of curiosity, did anyone pick up the counterspelling feats?

In reply to Ay Matra (msg # 140):

That'd be me!  Anything breaks if you hit it hard enough!

Do you specifically mean dispelling upon attacks or also immediate action counterspelling when enemies cast spells? (not that I'm too concerned with it, just good to understand which capabilities we have)

Most of the feats that have "counterspell" in the name, though I'm not expecting to have immediate actions to spare often.

I hear ya, they're a crowded action slot.

Very nice that you nabbed the counterspell feat chain. Never know when that might come in handy.

Another person also picked a couple of those up, so you can sleep safe in the knowledge that you won't be without the ability to dispel magic if necessary.

Talk about the feats and show them off ingame and you just may get Ludo to back you up.

If we get heavily engaged by spellcasters we can use a counterspell feat as the one we share out to everyone just as easily as we can any other feat.

Well hell, I forgot I can only cast on myself. that doesn't aid counterspelling X.X

I didn't have the feats to spare, but yeah, nice to have someone (or two someones) in the party with the option.

Is it one per round, per turn, or per action?

I'd say stacking rules would apply, so whichever was activated last is the active one until its duration expires or it's overwritten by another implement.

I can whack anyone with a Greater Dispel Magic pretty much at-will. Flashbangs are cool.

First thing i'll be doing in the first round of combat will be to drop a Powerful Mind Shield on everyone with the Mass Charm Talent on it.



It'll be a bit costly at 3 SP, but as a full caster a party wide +15 to the stuff you really want to hit your saves on even if they get past outright immunity sounds like a good tactic. And since it'll last for pretty much the entire combat, it's a great return of investment.

Considering that nobody took Quickened Spell and thus each of you can only cast one spell per turn, is this difference ever going to be relevant?

I'd probably go per action, if that matters - I'm just not sure where that would come up, hence why I'm asking.

In reply to Supervisor of reality (msg # 154):

It could come up on my strikes, that's why I was asking.

...it could? I didn't realize. Could you explain that to me?

For instance, if I do an Energy Strike with Smiting and an off-hand sphere effect that's either Time or using destruction with Tether.

Yeah, but both of those are all parts of the same standard action, I believe?
This message was last edited by the GM at 06:06, Thu 03 Feb 2022.

so I would need to pick one implement that would apply for the whole action.

Yeah; I did say "by action" above, which is why I cited Quickened spells - because then you'd be using two different actions to cast, and so the ability to switch implement from action to action matters. But, as I said, nobody took that one, I believe, so it's not really going to matter.

Oh!  I could make this one come up.  As a standard action, I use a Weather spell.  Then, as a Swift action, I use Isoport on someone.

Awesome :D
Haven't seen the Scholar in play yet, so I'm very interested to see its strengths play out.

Something else I was curious about. Do we happen to have Scrying abilities? Potentially even Anti-Scrying abilities?

Do we really need anti-scrying though? We have two people that can set up a mental communications network.

There's also a fun little item from 3.5 that i've had on one of my characters before:



Or you could just slam a dispel magic on it to end it as soon as any of us notice it.

In reply to Ay Matra (msg # 163):

In principle, I could pick up a scry ability. Not on my sheet at present though.

While you're all free to alter you sheet as you wish until tomorrow ends, I would caution against trying to be prepared for everything. Not only is it impossible, but you're going to feel cheated when the holes in your defenses are exploited. Having a versatile character is important, obviously, but Pathfinder rewards specialization, and failing to have a specialty of your own will result in a less effective character, which would be less fun to play.

Basically: having a few extra tricks stashed away for rare eventualities is smart planning, but compromising the core of your build to do it would not be.

I don't have any scrying or anti-scrying magic. An earlier build had some divination talents, but I couldn't fit them in and ultimately dropped them. I do have some interesting information gathering techniques, including talking to rocks, water, and clouds.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I'm merely interested in knowing what abilities we all have, in order to understand the gaps, in order to understand how to defend / prepare ourselves.

Next level i'll have an ability to hide up to 7 people from view in an extradimensional space with nothing else in it, so yeah, good luck trying to make anything out even if they have Discern Location, and i can still move around while it's active too.

GM: Would an anti-scrying method cast on me automatically include those i'm carrying with me, or not since it's extradimensional and i'm not technically inside my own extradimensional space?
This message was last edited by the player at 14:29, Thu 03 Feb 2022.

That will depend on the ability used and on the specific user.

If it is a true extra dimensional space the people (or things) in it will only be detectable with scrying that bypasses planer boundaries, and even then all you would get is 'that demi plane over there' and perhaps the ability to plane shift to them with another spell.  All of that would depend on the anti scrying protections of the people actually targeted.

Sphere's Divination sphere is vastly more effective and complex than normal Vancian Divination.

Also, as I said, it depends on the character involved - you might not be able to see an invisible bull, but if you can see the place on the ground where the grass is being weighted down in the shape of the hooves, you'll know where it is anyway. Most characters won't have the INT to deduce things from context clues, but "most" is not "all".

As I said before, and this applies to pretty much everything that's possible in the game: whether something is effective or not will depend almost entirely on which ability is being used against it and who is using it.

Let 'em look.  Who can blame them for wanting to watch how amazing we are?

(Getting into character a bit.)

In reply to Verik (msg # 173):



Also, on a completely unrelated note, i feel the need to mention that i have ranks in Perform (String)
This message was last edited by the player at 19:25, Thu 03 Feb 2022.

In reply to Iona de Orasaigh (msg # 174):

Woo!  Musicians represent!

In reply to Iona de Orasaigh (msg # 174):

You rock. :P

Sadly, while she knows everything there is to know about music theory and composition, Diata couldn't carry a tune in a bucket.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:20, Thu 03 Feb 2022.

Alright, so I was going over character sheet to double check them; I did a couple of formatting corrections here and there, I'll probably do more later, but that's minor.

I did notice that not all sheet are full, and that a few sheets still have "?" in places that should instead house a number, so I'd like it if those could be filled in and the "?" marks could be converted to whichever the appropriate number is, even if the number happens to be 0.

Also, not everybody put in the height and weight values in their sheet. I know that's a hassle, but since the system uses the imperial measurements to determine effects, whereas my brain uses the metric system to actually visualize things so I can put a description together, I really do need both. The conversion is pretty easy:

https://www.google.com/search?...=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Just put in the measure necessary. For those who don't know, 1 ft = 12 inches, so 60 inches = 5 ft, and 100 cm = 1 m, so 180 cm = 1.8 m

Let me know when you're done so I go back to doing all the double-checking! I've already found a few mistakes in a few sheets that I communicated to people, so if you're one of those, I'll need the issues addressed.

Do you want us to list everything is both imperial and metric, or just the imperial the game uses?

I just changed my sheet to have both, with the metric in parenthesis. Easy enough to do.

SoR, I believe that I'm done with my sheet and ready for double-checking.

I'd prefer to have the Height and Weight value be shown in both measurement systems. Not the entire sheet, just those two stats at the very top.

Metric compliant, and no more question marks.  I generally just leave stuff like that in there for last because it actually helps me know what parts I can ignore while I am fiddling with the more complex math.

My measurements already were, but i logged a few Save rolls to get rid of the question marks there as well.

One question remains though, 'current/next XP'. Is this going to be like in Wicked Spheres where you need 22 XP to level up (and 1-3 XP is awarded based on how well you (as a group) managed the encounter) or are you using the standard XP table?

There's kind of a gap between 308 XP and 635k ^^;
This message was last edited by the player at 18:35, Fri 04 Feb 2022.

Rules thread said 22 XP to level.

As September said, the House Rules thread makes a not that I'm using my usual XP progression system, so indeed the one you're used to, Iona. Your XP total as of right now, before starting the game, should be 0/22, as you have currently 0 of the 22 XP you need to level up.

Also, as something that I like to do so that you all know how you compare with each other, and since most of those things would be evident to each other visually (high Dexterity reflecting in a very well coordinated way of moving, charisma being clear in attitude and body language, constitution being reflected into how healthy and energetic people look, strength being shown in musculature definition and body construction, intelligence and wisdom coming through in the sharpness and attentiveness of one's gaze and the easy understanding when spoken to, and so on), but might be difficult to showcase in writing (though you should still try), so I find it helps to have the numbers for reference.


       Ay: STR 30, DEX 16, CON 16, INT 12, WIS 18, CHA  8
   Banner: STR 10, DEX 27, CON 14, INT 18, WIS 12, CHA 22
     Cube: STR 10, DEX 14, CON 26, INT 29, WIS 16, CHA  6
    Diata: STR  8, DEX 20, CON 18, INT 29, WIS 14, CHA 10
  Halasik: STR 14, DEX 20, CON 20, INT 16, WIS 25, CHA  8
     Iona: STR 13, DEX 20, CON 14, INT 16, WIS 20, CHA 20
  Ludovic: STR 18, DEX 20, CON 20, INT 21, WIS 10, CHA 18
September: STR 16, DEX 12, CON 22, INT 14, WIS  8, CHA 29
    Verik: STR 16, DEX 29, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 10, CHA 22


Also, it'll be amusing to see the reaction of everybody to the different ability scores you all have. :)

EDIT: modified Halasik stats from INT 27 WIS 14, as a result of changed focus on ability scores.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:30, Mon 07 Feb 2022.

Y'all like Con.

I AM THE PRETTIEST HAMMER!


And yeah, we all seem to like Con; it's the only stat that nobody dumped, not even a little bit.

There's a name for someone who dumps con ...





Dead.



Hmm, I had been going back and forth between being int or wis based, and I'm actually kind of regretting going int, since we have four people with int >20, and Iona with the highest wisdom of 20. Just be nice to have better diversity there, and I'd be stepping on other people's toes a bit less.

Well, if you don't mind losing skill points, I don't think changing your build would otherwise be difficult? I don't recall you having any ability that is strictly dependent on INT other than your casting, and with the sphere System, we can easily switch that to WIS - it would fit your hermit character, even.

Also, personally, I think INT and DEX are winning over CON; they have higher high points, only DEX has a lower low, and the average is slightly better - 20 INT vs 19.7 DEX vs 18.2 CON. Not saying that CON isn't a solid stat or anything; all of the other averages are noticeably lower. Which is weird, since you would expect the third Save stat (WIS) to be the third of the three highest, whereas here it's cleanly the least loved stat overall. I guess this team is lacking in common sense? ^_^

In reply to Supervisor of reality (msg # 188):

I think it's more to do that Will tends to be a strong save in most classes, so that's an extra +4 to the roll compared to a weak save -- it'd lead to focusing efforts on cranking up the weaker saves instead.

Halasik: Ironically, i can actually die and not get killed, FYI :P

It's all about supply and demand.

Will saves are critically important, but there are a million ways to boost them-- starting with Iona.  Meanwhile, raising HP is actually pretty tough without spending permanent resources like feats, high HP can cover for weakness in other areas, but the reverse isn't always true... and fortitude saves are at least as important as Will, and not as common a good save for casters.  There's a reason why Constitution is the only attribute it takes a Boon to cast off of (and Con-based casting was errata-ed out of existence in base Pathfinder).

Also, September's personality.

Anyone wanna arm wrestle a small robot??

Although I say that ... but wouldn't it be better to be a dex based grappler ...

In reply to Ay Matra (msg # 191):

You'd kick my backside two ways from sunday.

In reply to Ay Matra (msg # 191):

I'll challenge you to a lifting competition with my puny muscles!

...because I lift with my Int. It's all about leverage.

In reply to Ay Matra (msg # 191):

I'll challenge you to a lifting competition with my puny muscles! ...because I lift with my Int. It's all about leverage.

In reply to Supervisor of reality (msg # 184):

Actually, a few of my character's attributes are going to look much higher than they are, in-character, just because so many of their functions have been offloaded onto INT. I'll do my best to make sure that that comes across (within the limits of being a mere mortal playing someone with 29 INT, of course).

"Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears."

As the healer, allow me to repeat the age-old mantra:

- I'll be looking forward to having nothing to do in combat ^^

In reply to Iona de Orasaigh (msg # 196):

What a coincidence!  I'm looking forward to being carried through combat as well!

In reply to Iona de Orasaigh (msg # 196):

You mean we won't be seeing the Spheres equivalent of Codzilla? :(

https://s3images.coroflot.com/...4GybQ_ZjZBNNZfjE.jpg

Unfortunately(?) no, that's more the Vancian side of things :)

Still, if someone has Alteration we could change the party into a flock of dragons, that's a thing i suppose.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:22, Fri 04 Feb 2022.

Alteration to the extreme but the casting form is Lycanthropic.

Alright everybody, I'll be starting the game officially tomorrow.

We'll begin with individual private threads for each of you, where you will be contacted and offered the chance to take part in the contest - the good deities only accept volunteers for this challenge, so naturally you'll need to have your character agree, but you'll be able to negotiate and discuss payment. The meeting will take place in a dream of sort (or a vision for those who don't sleep), but I'll ask each of you to make the first post by describing what your character was doing and where they were before having the dream/vision, so you can start thinking that over.

Also, anybody who hasn't done so already should go ahead and use the die roller to make 20 initiative rolls and 20 save rolls, and put them in the appropriate location on their sheet, which should be easy to find - the initiatives are under the combat stats portion and the saves are under the save bonus portion, straightforwardly.

I know a few people might have to make a few changes still to their sheet, such as giving me the items or Halasik's decision over whether he wants to pivot from INT to WIS, but I'm mostly satisfied with what I have, and I very much hate having to postpone after I've said I'll do something at a specific time - plus, the fact that these will be individual threads gives me a bit more time to finalize small details. And it should give each of you a chance to get into character before you have to meet each other.
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:58, Sat 05 Feb 2022.

On the topic of initiative, I have an item that grants everyone within 30ft a +5 bonus. This bonus will not always count for everyone. How would you like to handle that?

A couple of options I can think of: everyone makes a note in their sheet about it to remind you, or you could perhaps note it down, or I can try my best to remind every battle.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:37, Sat 05 Feb 2022.

I have a few related buff that will be effecting folks within 30 ft so relevant to me too!

Generally, telling me when you're activating them or reminding me that something is active will be sufficient, and I'll keep track of things like group bonuses.

Kind of the other way around, i have the Draw Magic trait, so i'd like to be within 30 ft. of people too :P

We're just a big hugbox, aren't we?

(I prefer to be at a distance, preferably hidden and under cover.)

In reply to Diata Yuari (msg # 206):

That's easy.

Is anyone in the party Large sized, so Diata can use you for (soft) cover?

Halasik is not, but would appreciate being enlarged if anyone has the ability (I do a lot of vital strikes, so boosts to base weapon damage are increased significantly from a size bonus). I can also form reach weapons and have combat reflexes, so I can provide decent area denial that way.


In terms of 30 feet, Halasik has no abilities that aid in that range, but also no reason not to stay close to others.

Cube is a hug box for sure. . .

P.S. As it matches the actual color of Cube best I will likely be using The Aqua color for Cube's speech equivalent IC communication, so we don't accidentally overlap.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:16, Sat 05 Feb 2022.

Sometimes.

Crimson for me.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:50, Sat 05 Feb 2022.

I think I will have Halasik speak in Gray

Royalred for Banner

Goldenrod for Ay Matra

Rose for Iona please

Huh, nobody took Blue

Blue is for swanky characters, so we saved it for you ...

Dark Green

Working on my intro. Given no one’s claimed it will be using Brown for Banner’s main speaking companion, Grungi

Heh.  Well, of the colors left...  I'll take Italics for September, if no one objects.  He uses telepathy anyways.

Also, just so everyone knows-- I don't exist on Saturdays EST without a handwritten note from Cthulhu.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:58, Sun 06 Feb 2022.

Cthulhu is your overlord? Oh dang.

Given that most of the intro threads are done, but not all (you'll know that all the intro threads are done when I open the main thread), in order to not have everybody get bored while waiting, if any of you would like to make comments on what you're expecting of the game, especially now that most of you have a certain handle of what my posting style is like and seeing how I've used the details you gave me about your characters to construct the narrative, or would just like to chat with your fellow players about anything the threads made you think will likely affect the way they approach the contest, I'd like to read those comment and see what you all collectively think.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:14, Mon 07 Feb 2022.

Quick request just to get it out of the way. Can everyone PM me the following info on their characters? This info will be acquired through my Scout powers.

-BAB
-Any Martial Talents (Spheres of Might)
-Any weaknesses (such as DR types or vulnerabilities to a particular energy type)

Yes, I am totally PvPing you all. :)

In reply to Diata Yuari (msg # 222):

Is it worth sharing these things via a PM in the introduction thread so you have a holistic view? Likewise, are there other perceptions of other members of the team who we should prepare to share?

(No objection to messaging you, just thinking about the impact of the scene)

Perfectly okay with me!

Verik automatically sees magic auras, though not with complete specificity, just type and approximate strength.

Wasn't there something you'd roll for to see what Spheres someone had? Can't quite remember, but i'd reckon we'd all be assumed to Take 20 on that roll so we could share that too?

Liking what I'm seeing thus far; there seems a solid balance between clarity and mystery in character, Supervisor. For Banner, I think I need to balance his companion's presence a bit more, and keen to see the player character's backgrounds coming out in who we're facing and little background details

For the other players, it's worth flagging that Banner will be approaching the contest with a mix of grit, determination, and trepidation. If we win, then the 'reward' is a significant upheaval for him. As a character, he is exceptionally reliant on teamwork but wary about those he considers his allies, so that will be an interesting journey I hope. You may find he treads an interesting line between honour (through a Dwarven lens) and 'the means to an end' (since he's typically in the thick of the melee and a halfling). He's Neutral Good, but could veer towards Chaotic Good.

It would be interesting to understand if you folks (the players, not the characters) have any boundaries I should be aware of in terms of Banner's facility with possession? Or in topics to steer clear of with his intimidation? He's an emotional lightning rod, in that sense

As mentioned earlier, he bring with him a variable teamwork feat that everyone counts as having if they qualify when his totem is up (or us avoiding damage to one another), plus a sphere of dim light or darkness. You can count on him to be tripping folks up, throwing sand in their face, stealing their stuff or scary seven hells out of pretty much anything within thirty feet

"What chest!"

There's a topic I gave a great deal of thought: how will we make decisions as a group?

The reason I thought about this is because I think the biggest blocker to ingame success is how we execute a strategy. We're 9 individuals who probably all have their own opinion of what we should do and how we should do it. Too much debate and in fighting might not just make us fail ingame but might also cause an erosion on the fun we're having.

There are probably many ways to tackle this and I'd like to hear your ideas around it. If it's ok with all of you, I'd like to share my 2 cents on how to potentially deal with this:

Disagree and commit:
We should all voice our opinions and ideas. And at the end of the day, I believe that a sub optimal strategy executed 100% is better than an optimal strategy executed by just half the group. That's why I would like to invite everyone to be critical, both in character and out of character when the idea/strategy is being formed. At one point, we should put our ideas to a vote. If there are 2 potential strategies that we'd like to put to a vote, where one hypothetically gets 5 votes and the other gets 4 votes, that'd mean that almost HALF OF THE GROUP disagrees with the decision made. That's where the commit part comes in. We commit ourselves fully to the thing that's chosen and execute it, without grumbles, without I told you so's afterwards if things go wrong and with a positive team spirit.

It's possible that this is a horrible idea, and that there are many flaws with it. It's possible you have a better idea. It's possible that you think we should just wing it without having a decision process in place. I'm very much interested in what everyone thinks about this.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:02, Mon 07 Feb 2022.

I appreciate the thought and the reasons behind trying to get groupthink working,  but I think that detracts a lot from the roleplay. The way I see it, handling this purely IC is better, allowing the characters to be the ones who strategize and plan.

I fully expect our first few fights may  be hot messes, but that gives the characters incentive to figure out how to work together.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:25, Mon 07 Feb 2022.

The chaos of learning how to work as a group sounds amazing.

I'm in favor of keeping things IC as well. There's no reason we can't compromise and weigh decisions, strict democracy often does not work in these situations because not everyone is expected to have the exact same skillset. I'm diplomatic, so logically i would favor conversation, whereas a more stealth oriented character would favor trying to sneak around the guards rather than bluff our way past them.

Personally, my approach would be that we can discuss plans and make suggestions all day long, but when it's officially 'go time' everyone gets in line and follows the plan we've agreed on, unless we come across something unexpected forcing us to improvise. For streamlining the process, we could appoint one person as leader, who gets to be the tie breaker when we're stuck deciding which plan to adopt, and set up something of a fluid leadership structure where the sneakiest of us gets to be in charge when a group of us need to go do sneaky things.

It's tricky; I would hope that our character's have come together with the intent of working together, that being the pitch they received, but there's an attraction to the chaos of learning and the interplay between each other as we learn.

Assuming that we want to be telling a compelling story of heroes and champions is a decent start. Having our characters on a trajectory towards increasing teamwork and eventual cooperation is perhaps the next step, even if the road is bumpy and full of detours.

With that in mind, I'm with Ay and Iona: however we reach 'Go Time', its commitment from that point

I think the presumption is that the characters all want to work for the same objective, and cooperate in that effort.  But that is very different from the sort of efficient coordination one would expect from a team.

We have a lot of extra tools for that, including telepathy so we can do live coordination and planning mid fight in a way few other games can, without needing to do an OOC version.

I'm for dealing with it ICly. If the chaos starts to detract from the fun, we can revisit that decision and perhaps OOCly agree on a party leader, but for now I'd like us to learn to operate as a team in-game.

Besides, I'd rather have Diata show leadership than just be handed it OOCly. :)

I'm ok with trying to solve things IC for now as well, although I agree that we may not to revise that if things freeze up. I'd actually guess that combat itself will be ok since everyone will just act for themselves, it's decision making outside of combat that may be tricky.

In my experience the problem on Play-by-post tends to be less multiple people strongly wanting to do things and more everyone offering suggestions and nobody making an actual decision. But we'll see how it goes.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:23, Tue 08 Feb 2022.

There are two issues

- one is how we cooperate, whoch is what the rp will be all about

- one is discussion going on forever, which is a bummer, but I'm all for giving the GM a pass to move things on if we're not decisive in a reasonable time, and rolling the end of the scene with some outside event cutting us off, or fading to, "you stay up all night talking and no consensus forms"

I've seen that issue. Rest assured that if we go into that mode, I'll do my best to help.

In light of this, let me just flatout state that i will consider it possible that Iona can be wrong in things. IC posts are IC, and she doesn't have all Knowledges maxed and stacked with class bonuses like a panicked librarian, so yeah... don't hold back for not wanting to hurt my feelings, unless doing that is perfectly IC for you, of course... ;)

Hey! I do not panic! :P

I favor making decisions IC as well; if people feel like we're taking too long to make up our minds (which I AM kinda worried about with nine people), we can always post about it OOC or select a captain IC.

That said, with this many PCs, if we have two solid plans or two solid it might be pretty practical to just do both-- we can split up on RPoL a lot more readily than we could split up in person, after all.  September has Teleport Beacon, so it wouldn't even be that hard to reunite after a split up.

Awesome discussion, I agree with you all that we want to take care of this IC. It's good that we're all aware that this might be a pitfall going forward. Some of you even have the experience of it having happened before, endless discussion or disagreements on how to proceed. That being said, I have faith that we can work it out IC. Aside from that, I'm also looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts on ingame strategy (IC of course).

Bringing this up again, specifically I guess in terms of Banner possessing them... which might be means of saving them, in terms of unconsciousness, but less clear for situations like compulsion or charm?

Are you talking about possessing enemies or our characters?

Asking if you, as players, have any triggers or issues if Banner was to possess your characters. Happy to handle it IC if players are ok with the possibility, and not planning to do so... but thought it polite to check

Uhm as a player I'm mostly concerned about our fun and about telling a good story. I'm not sure that (IC) people enjoy their mind's being taking over by strangers, but that's probably another matter to be dealt with IC.

Your question or problem statement could use a bit more context: like are you planning to be possessing a character 100% of the time? This would imply that there's always one player who can't ... play the game :p. Or is it more situationally? Or only in combat? But if it's in combat, would it be 100% of the combat?

Mechanically, I don't fully understand the benefit of possessing party members, but you probably know more about that than I do. Could you provide more context around what you're planning to do? (maybe you already have and I'm just not understanding it well, in which case my apologies)
This message was last edited by the player at 10:32, Tue 08 Feb 2022.

As a player I don't have any preference one way or the other.  But expect an IC response to be commensurate with the level of PvP activity you initiate.

In reply to Ay Matra (msg # 247):

I'm not planning on possessing any player characters, unless there is dire need. But I'm aware that even in that circumstance it may be triggering for some folks, so thought it polite to mention in advance in case there were any OOC objections because of real-life issues :)

OOC objections, no, but... Let's just say there are IC reasons why Iona studied Mind Shield. So while i won't get angry should that happen, due to events from her backstory Iona would absolutely not be pleased to say the least.

...Which of course wouldn't translate to OOC anger since we're all adults here, i'm just giving fair warning.

Absolutely! I'm presuming all kinds of IC fallout if Banner needs to do this

Ah thanks for clarifying that. Yeah sounds like a fun story dynamic to do that and get someone pissed at you for doing it (IC) :D

As a player possession doesn't bother me too much, as long as it's not gratuitous bullying which I assume wouldn't happen.

But it would cause quite a lot of IC strife with Verik.

Appreciate the responses folks, and the separation between OOC and IC. As mentioned, not intending to need to worry about this and certainly not intending to PvP ... but it might be interesting as a later stage for the storyline :)

Same here. OOC, willing to deal with it as it comes, but the IC fallout may be severe!

A lot of that could be prevented by simply throwing it into a group conversation though :P

I'm not entirely sure you could possess ludovic. It will be fun to find out what happens though.

I'm somewhat confused by why there would ever be a need to possess another character? Like, what would the advantage of that even be, other than PvP?

In reply to Halasik (msg # 258):

Blocking another's mind control effect.

Enabling you to defend or be defended whilst unconscious

Now I'm just curious/nosy as to how you do it.  I was figuring it was just really really advanced grappling. ;)

It’s a class talent fuelled by rage and his possession by a wrathful spirit

Soooo. How is everyone doing in their perspective threads?

Already done with mine, just holding off until more people are done i suppose. You?

Same. Mine was easy as the god showed up in a form familiar to Ludovic so he was all "Sure, lets go on an adventure"

Done with mine too.  Longtime Khepri worshipper here.

There's only one thread that needs to be finished, and I expect it to take one, perhaps two posts from the involved player at most. As I don't want anybody to have negative feelings, try not to ask each other about it - I'm certain it'll be done by tomorrow at the latest.

Aye aye boss!

No need to rush, most of us spent longer on making our character sheets.

In reply to Cube (msg # 270):

Less a rush and more that I have the writing bug and the only one I can write an observation on is a god. =P

Had 32 posts in mine, but me and the GM seem to be on at around the same times (which is to say, most of the day XD) so it went pretty fast ^^

That is a blessing and a half. Not to mention an active DM. =)

Yup. Had enough time for tea and chocolates too. ;)

Do you need a list of our Spheres of Might, Diata, or each of the specific talents we have within them as well?

She needs both. So, for example, if you had only the Scout Sphere and your only talent in that sphere was the Study Technique talent, you would write "Scout Sphere, Study Technique".

Appreciated, will include both

Just to be sure. This scouting of our abilities is actively being used?

Yes. Swift action for each of you, taking 10 with a +34 bonus. No magic involved.

Unless I missed an ability you have, you can't take 10 (my rule on perception is on passive abilities, which this is clearly not), but it doesn't matter because skill rolls don't fall on a 1 and, as stated, you have a +34 bonus.

In reply to Supervisor of reality (msg # 280):

Oh, I can't? Okay. I assumed that I can do so out of combat if I'm not under danger, distraction or time pressure - it's a skill check.

Well, like you said, doesn't matter :)

...I think I got my ruling crossed with the "retry/take 20" ruling, which is not allowed for Knowledge.

...Actually, with Signature Skill, I can retry Knowledge checks. (At a -10 penalty, though, which negates the point of taking 20. :P)

So yeah, I take 10 on any Scout check I can, not that it really matters.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:28, Thu 10 Feb 2022.

Cube = aerogel?

Aerogel is hard and brittle, Cube is a doughty jelly.

Well yea. Talking about visually. Making files on everyone and cube is a hard one as he seems a bit more than a gel cosplaying a 1D6.

Though if he has the properties of aluminum I will be very impressed and sing his praises.

The cube is not much like aerogel, very much more like water with a little extra to keep its shape.

So.... More like a slime with the ability to form specific shapes with his body?

Lil Rimuru!

@Diata: sorry about that. I missed your post offering help. I got a bit overwhelmed with all the posts with a couple of action packed days at work.

In reply to Ay Matra (msg # 290):

It's alright. We have a big team and a lot of people talking.

Speaking of abilities, does anyone have the ability to remove permanent negative levels (I think in Spheres the Make Whole Advanced Talent is the only way to do that, but I could be wrong).

The resurrection sphere will give the target 1 negative level. If we could negate that, this could be a really nice advantage. Give one party member a haircut, have them scout out an enemy, and if they get killed, just resurrect and restore them back home.

At the very least, any time we leave the citadel, we should try to get an ally (maybe befriend a villager?) to stay in the center of our citadel with strands of hair or whatnot from the whole party to be able to resurrect anyone who dies.

Note that the sphere gives you access to Greater Ressurection and all of its prerequisites, which can be used with no SP cost. Those would be:

Life sphere, Break Enchantment, Make Whole (advanced), Restore Senses (cure), Restore Spirit (cure), Resurrection (advanced), Resuscitate

So, you know, there's pretty much anything you need, so long as you retain access to it.

Oh nice, I missed that it grants the prerequisites.

Assuming the lips with thorns around them is Gaea, that would leave the curved star and the face coin unaccounted for. The face coin i believed is Hel, making the curved star Nyarlathotep, correct?

According to Google, Nyarlathotep's symbol was an upside down ankh though. Where did you get those images from? I'm having a hard time tracking them down.

Round the clock, starting just after noon: Nethys, Hel, Son Wukong, Ydersius, Asmodeus, Lao Shu Po, Achaekek, Gaea, Torag, Khepri, Sheylin, Nyarlathotep

Banner is fully correct, assuming he's referring to the external circle.

The black reversed star with the eye in the middle I got from searching "Elder Gods Mythos", and it is indeed meant to represent Nyarlathotep, since I didn't find any specific symbol for him. The lips with thorn is from a Pathfinder sourcebook about first world religions, and is indeed meant to represent Gaea. The "winged scarab" is easily found with image search and is meant to represent Khepri, obviously. The coin with the face is Hel, that's correct; I also found that one through image search for "Hel godess symbol". All of the other symbols come from the Pathfinder Wiki for the relevantly named gods.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:57, Fri 11 Feb 2022.

He was :)

Oh ow, he addresses himself in the 3rd person. Is that cause for a yellow flag? :o

Considering Banner is essentially multiple personalities, i don't see much reason for concern. :P

Touché

Will try to post tomorrow.

Just wanted to say, I launched into a ritual because it's boring when these things always happen off-screen, and it should be some disadvantage (ie missing some of the convo).  I'm relying on Supervisor to let me know when an hour has passed (I assume there's a while to go yet, may miss the whole conversation.)

Hopefully Ay Matra won't need to get a joint replacement overhaul at the end of the hour.

Sorry for missing out on some of the strategizing.  What Diata saw should clue her in to the main themes of how Verik fights.

Just checking, but it's not clear to me if Iona's last IC post is aimed to the group (as in, trying to get a sense of which disguise abilities the group has at its disposal) or if it's aimed to Khepri, as in, once again trying to see if there's any way the team can use Khepri's powers instead of having to rely on your own skills to do things. I would not think it's aimed at Khepri, since the answer should be obvious (you'll need to rely on your skills to identify/avoid identification from opponents), I'm just making sure since I want to be able to answer every question quickly, so that you can move on to let Khepri leave and actually starting the competition itself.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:40, Sun 13 Feb 2022.

Ah sorry.

It's aimed at Khepri. :)

Halasik?

I think part of what you said got cut off there.

Whoops, stray sentence clause that didn't get deleted. Edited it out.

An hour :o

Just to poke my nose into others' business...  I think the question Iona asked IC about the Mind Sphere is about the difference between talents like Utterances (when used on herself, to improve her own Diplomacy) and Command (used on another creature).

The impression I have is that the first one is fine and the second is against the rules; it looks like she wants to clarify.


Also, yes, I'd rather not mention strictly mechanical concepts IC; it does break immersion a bit (though I find the word "warp" much more fun than "teleport" and will probably use that a lot).

Buffs on yourselves are fine so long as they don't have a passive effect that hurts people (say, casting an aura of heat or an aura of fear on yourself that affects people in a radius around you). Again, it's really not that complicated, just don't try to use abilities that negatively affects the townspeople, and you will be fine.

"Your wife is secretly a vampire who goes out at night to feed on the blood of the living!"

Bluff check, and it's totally not my fault that the townsfolk are killing each other.

That would be fine, yes. Asmodeus insisted that tricking people only by talking to them is acceptable so long as no power are involved, since the goal of including the towns is to see which faith's tenets are stronger when powers and might aren't allowed, and that, if lying and tricking people wasn't allowed, then it might be impossible to draw a line between an acceptable interaction and an unacceptable one. Of course, the point of only allowing discussions is that you have no idea how the person will react - maybe that one person has a vampire fetish and will be even more in love with their wife afterwards, who knows?
This message was last edited by the GM at 07:36, Tue 15 Feb 2022.

After a good night's sleep, what i think Iona meant to say is to get a better idea of what Mind abilities are considered 'violence', since it would only lead to disqualification if a village would be negatively impacted by them.

I see. That's a more reasonable question, and the answer would be "anything that can affect the people negatively", with the understanding that any messing with people's free will (or perceptions, in cases where the damaged perception would result in them taking actions harmful to themselves or other villagers) is a negative effect.

Also, I think you all referred to Verik in your discussion when it's actually Ludovic who is the shapeshifter and has a longstanding antagonistic relationship with dragons.

Is anyone on Discord?

I am not.

:(

<meaningful text so my smiley appears>

I am.

I am, when I bother to get on it :)

:)

We can start a Discord channel to chill out and bond if it's allowed by GM. It's possible our overlord prefers awareness over what's being said OOC. In which case, no hard feelings.

Rarely on Discord

I'd personally rather stick to the OOC thread for the game, m'self.

I am rarely on discord. I'd join if someone created a channel, but my preference is keeping everything in the same place (i.e. here).

I mean, if I wanted to run the game somewhere other than this site, I would not have put the game here, would I? And I do prefer it to keep anything game related within the game.

So, as far as I'm concerned, anything that happens outside of the threads in this game is not happening in this game, obviously.

Just as obviously, I'm not the police or anybody's mom, so if people make friend with each other and want to spend time together talking outside of the game, I imagine they'd be free to? It would not have any relevance to the game as far as I'm concerned though. As I said, I am not on Discord or any other such site and, more relevantly, I have no plan to ever be.

I'd be much happier to have an active OOC thread where this game's players felt free to speak about this game, and see no reason why any other place to do the same thing would be needed, nor what possible advantage there would be to doing it anywhere else. But, again, anybody is free to do what they want, it won't impact the game one way or the other in any case.

Wow!  You've all been busy!

I'm actually a bit confused by what I'm reading IC-- when I went to sleep, we had a list of names to ask for that everyone except for Cube and Verik had signed off on.  We needed that list because Khepri said she wouldn't tell us names until the whole group agreed to them.
Diata and September had volunteered to be the initial messengers to the two Good camps and asked if anyone else was interested.

Now I find that Khepri's given out two names, neither of which was on the list that we were talking about asking for last night, and the messages are being carried by Iona and Diata?  I won't be able to post IC until late tonight after work, but...  did Supervisor just get tired of asking everyone to agree or something?

No, I got the impression that it was part of your collective agreement - that the team considered the possibilities and decided to agree to just ask those questions. Isn't that what happened?

We're actually following your suggestion:



That is what Diata and Iona asked about, and they both know someone on Torag and Shelyn's side respectively. We still have 10 questions left :)

Khepri said she would wait, but it wasn't a "everyone has to agree" and more just we could discuss which names to ask for and she wouldn't do a gotya and answer until there was a clear and explicit ask of her.

I believe both Cube and Verik posted, and didn't explicitly agree or disagree. So Diata just went ahead and asked for one name, and then Iona for a second name.

The names we were going to ask for were:


Khepri said that "most willing to work with us" was too poorly defined, so we asked for "known to us" instead for those two.

As for envoys, I saw Iona and Diata volunteer, and September mention that he had experience with negotiations, but the post about teleport beacons I thought meant September would be in the main group. I may have misinterpreted that though.
Since we now know that Iona and Diata do know one member of Shelyn and Torag's group respectively, it makes sense to have them as the emissaries.

Anyways, I think that's where we're at. We still have 10 more names to ask, and 1 more full set of abilities to ask.

Fooling around on Discord, whilst being fun, would take away a little from this OOC thread. So let's keep it here.

Yeah, if the GM won't be on the Discord, it's better to do everything here.


In reply to Halasik (msg # 329):

Actually, Halasik, Khepri said, "I will let you discuss among yourselves which set of names you want to ask for, and only give them to you once the team as a whole reaches an agreement on which ones you want to know about."  So yeah, team as a whole.

In reply to Supervisor of Reality (msg # 327):

The question I suggested, and Halasik just quoted, "the person on Shelyn's team most willing to work with us even if that meant Shelyn lost," was never attempted.

Rather, Iona asked for "The name of the person in Torag's and the person in Shelyn's group best known to any one member in our group," and Khepri said that ("best known") was too vague.  At which point Diata changed it to whether there was someone known to her (Diata) personally, which is the question Khepri answered.

I'm with Verik on that one, by the way-- finding people we know can be done just by walking up to the other team and looking at them in most cases; it's a waste of a question that can be spent to get information about people we don't know (or information we don't know about people we do).

...on a related note, it looks like Verik (msg 167) specifically asked that names not be spent on those two questions Diata and Iona asked, instead of just asking for something different (like I did).  I could be misinterpreting what happened, though.

Alright, it seems to me that there's been some confusion here.

The way I see it, Verik said that he thought it would be better to ask for people who'd be more important to achieve the other group's success, which would be a question that requires a value judgment. He said asking for names already known was redundant, but that was phrased like an observation to me, not a declaration against what the rest of the team had already agreed upon. Diata (and Iona after her) then asked a name with the specific goal of seeing if there was somebody she knew because, if there was, that'd be a person who'd make for easier negotiation, so the question wasn't going against Verik's point - it wasn't something that could be waited upon until meeting the other teams, it was a key element to be utilized during planning, and thus needed to be known before any meeting could take place.

The question you suggested would have required a value judgment, but Diata and Iona's questions, while phrased differently, were indeed seeking for the same thing: somebody who'd be a good person to initiate discussion with. So, when they asked that question, they asked the very same question that you wanted them to ask. And which, as you just pointed out, Hasalik also wanted to ask. Nobody spoke against this, and indeed most people agreed to it; Verik's objection wasn't relevant because it was a general objection to asking just for people you knew in general, whereas in this particular case "somebody I know" was the most unambiguous way to get what the team as a whole wanted, ie "somebody I can trust will be willing to negotiate with me in good faith".

Does that all makes sense to you?

I can understand your reasoning as you've explained it.

Dang, you created 126 NPCs for this game?? :o
That's a lot of work.

It shouldn't be that surprising; 10 teams of 12 is 120 characters. The Ydersius team is 7, so that's 127, but one of the other teams is one person short, so 126 in total. I don't imagine you'll get to meet each one, since they'll be going after each other as well, but since I can't know what choices you're gonna make, I do need to have every possibility at hand, should it be needed.

This guy says it all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKdJ6DnPhzk

In character we'll chalk this up to a high wisdom. OOC, it's totally from copying-and pasting an earlier conversation.

Lol, I suspected as much but also wanted to head off a debate on which ones :)

Yeah, at this point I just want to ask the questions and get on with adventuring, even if we don't manage to ask the "best" possible questions.

+1

I propose that we ask the name of the leader of each of the seven remaining teams. Nice and easy. Any objections?

Agreed, I prefer leader over strongest. Cutting off the head of the snake might be more impactful than trying to eliminate the most powerful. While I'm not implying that the latter is not impactful. I'm merely stating about what might be most impactful.

I do like Diata's question for Ydersius though, since asking the eldest wyrm does provide more information than just being strong, also the fact that they're a wyrm.

The questions would then look like this:

Ydersius (CE): leader
Hel (NE): leader
Nyarlathotep (CE): leader
Achaekek (LE): leader
Nethys (N): leader
Gaea (?): leader
Son Wukong (CN): leader
This message was last edited by the player at 17:09, Thu 17 Feb 2022.

Sounds good to me, Cube doesn't really know much about even this version of gods and I don't have any interest in names OOC so you just do whatever seems fun.

Note that you are getting a little extra information than just a name - you're also getting a title which, in most cases, hints at what the character is capable of, and in some cases, the question itself also provides you with info.

Ay Mara, your list includes six names, but you need to ask for seven. If you wanted one name from each team, then you'd be missing somebody from the Son Wukong team.

Ah oops, edited.

Except we explicitly know that Ydersius always appoints a serpentfolk as leader, even if the wyrm's are more powerful. That one is the one where I most want to know the leader, not the most powerful.

I vote for leader for all of them, and if we really want the eldest wyrm, to drop one of the other gods.

Huh. Misread, I thought there was another name open. I really need new glasses.

Yeah, we're a bunch of cats to herd. :)

Diata figured it out.

The biggest threat to our competitors is having us cooperate with them. :P

@Halasik, ah I forgot that part. Good to remind. In that case I definitely also see a case for asking the leader of Ydersius.

Aright, so going from this, I have the sense that the four of you (Halasik, Diata, Iona, Ay Matra) are alright with Ay Matra's list.

Cube expressed neutrality over the matter, Ludovic also said he doesn't care, and IC, Banner was agreeing with Halasik, and Verik said that, while he had no preference, he actually had a preference for leaders; I'm not sure how that works exactly, but I'm gonna count it as a vote for the leader list, as Ay Matra has worded it.

September asked for the most powerful, but I don't imagine he'd disagree with going for the leaders instead, and also everybody else is in agreement with the leader list anyway, so I'll be giving you that one.

I'll need a bit of time to word the post properly with all the information, so it should be up in a couple of hours or so. You might want to start thinking over a strategy to decide which of the names you'll want to get a full bio on, even though I expect that having the actual names and titles might change any such plans.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:19, Thu 17 Feb 2022.

In reply to Halasik (msg # 341):

That's what Verik was trying to ask before, I think there's too much judgement. Teams may not have leaders anyway.  But I'll go along with whatever gets us out of the question phase.

This is going to be our life, isn't it? :)

Ok, I went ahead and posted the question IC just so we have this consensus on that thread. In terms of more details, my tentative thought would be that the absolute worst case is if Nyarlathotep's team wins, since he wants to destroy the entire world. So since we absolutely can't let them win, we might as well get more information about them.

That said, I'm open to other arguments, and certainly we should at least wait until we hear the names and titles to see if there's anything interesting there.

Look at it this way: If a team has no leaders we don't get a name from them and we could ask for the most powerful instead :)

Yup, what Iona said.

Not only will we still get a name, but we'll also have learned something useful, namely that that team doesn't have a leader and may end up as rudderlessly chaotic and confused as we are!

In reply to Halasik (msg # 353):

Is it worse to have Nyarlathotep destroy the world or Asmodeus turn it into the Tenth Hell?

Or to have Torag turn it into the perfect equitable orderly society where individuality and freedom don't matter?

I'd go with Nyarlathotep being the worst, because with Asmodeus (or any of the other gods) at least there would be a chance to to fix things next iteration/competition, but if Nyarlathotep wins there won't be a next iteration.

I should probably remind everyone that, according to Khepri, Asmodeus is second in the record of "most wins", ahead of Shelyn who used at least one of her wins on a personal project (enabling resurrection, although Khepri was on board with that one, what with being a goddess of rebirth and all) rather than "fixing" anything, and reality (since "the world" isn't really a good definition when multiple planes of reality are involved) wasn't destroyed at any point - which would suggest that Asmodeus' victory wouldn't destroy reality. I find it interesting that you forgot that detail so easily; I rarely include useless details, especially in a introductory explanation.

I dunno. Nyarlathotep enjoys messing around with people's heads too much to destroy existence. It'd deprive him of his favorite toys.

Would we all be insane and hopelessly chaotic? Sure. But Asmodean would turn the lot of us into morally ambiguous lawyers, so both would be equally bad...

That said, i agree with the GM. Keep in mind, the Gods are strengthened by belief, and by annihilating Creation, they would deprive themselves of all their power and essentially end themselves as well.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:03, Thu 17 Feb 2022.

I think you have Asmodeus and Nyarlathotep reversed there.

Both of them do actually:

http://spheresofpower.wikidot....p-the-crawling-chaos

Yes, but you were also directly told that each team isn't actually a single god, it's an alliance, and also specifically that the gods of chaos are, in fact, planning to destroy as much of reality as they can if they managed to win. So, Hasalik's concerns above are actually fully valid where Nyarlathotep's team is concerned, as you will find that it's quite full of nihilist and people who would enjoy to see the world go down in fire and screams, so long as the process was sufficiently painful for all involved. From a strictly "good" point of view, keeping that team from winning should indeed be one of the highest priorities in the whole tournament.

In reply to Halasik (msg # 353):

Actually, right now my frontrunner for biopic is Aruvna of the many faces.  For me, it's mostly a question of which of the people we learn about who we most need to know how to take countermeasures against in advance.  With how villagers play into the contest I'm highly concerned about her slipping into crowds or distributing false quest hooks.  It's what I'd do in her shoes!

In reply to Supervisor of reality (msg # 359):

It should be noted that I was kinda being a smartass there. :)

Asmodeus' victory won't destroy things, but it will mean a serious change for the worse for at least the next 25,000-year age. Probably something we should consider averting.

Oh, we're all in agreement that any of the evil gods winning is bad, and we should do all we can to prevent it. But we can also agree that some things can be more or less bad.

That said, September's reasoning makes a lot of sense. If someone's basic name and description makes it seem like they might have unusual vulnerabilities or powers that would need explicit countermeasures, that would be first priority. Failing that, picking the name of the "most bad" opposing faction seems like a reasonable tie-breaker.

Also, September, we should probably just assume that *somebody* in one of the rival groups (if not multiple somebodies) can shapeshift/disguise and make preparations for that anyways.

Oh, absolutely; but, you know, the Asmodeans will happily argue that "better us than one of those other guys"; I don't want to spoil the arguments before they come up in game, but you really should be ready for them to try and sell themselves as the lesser of all other possible evils, and they will have a very strong collection of evidence to base their claims off of. So... be ready! ^_^

In reply to Supervisor of reality (msg # 367):

Oh, of course.  Khepri already told us that the Asmodeans stock their team with diplomacy specialists.

In reply to September (msg # 368):

It'd be great to pull a Uno Reverse card and convince them we are the Lesser Good :P