Sounds good.  Thanks.

And yes, if it's something that can break, bleed, or have one shot without chance for recovery, I'm way more likely to ask for rolls.  But if it's whether you notice the guy following you, when he'll probably be following for a bit, I'll roll to keep things moving.

Asking for rules help this time, or at least pointers to the right places to look.  I'm still learning, and now I'm running in circles on this part, so I'll ask in the interest of speed.

Does cyberware show up in the matrix?  And if it's slaved to a commlink or deck, how obvious is that?  Or does it depend on the 'ware?  (Or on the perceiver's rolls?)

Cyberware if the wireless is active will show up as an icon.  If wireless is off, or they have an internal router it does not.  Slaving to a commlink does nothing in 5th edition.

Summary wireless if  (on) (off) or (internal router = off)

Why do you want it on?  bonuses for each piece often specify wirelsss on,  bad about wireless on?  it is matrix visable and can be hacked.


Obvious?

Obvious cyberware marked as such, arms/legs etc.  Other pieces are not well defined on perception, so totally GM call imho. Can you see someone with wired reflexes?  not until they roll init.

Seems from the text that you usually see the icon for someone's PAN and immediately see anything super interesting (like his gun) but you CAN opt to see they he has a comm link with paired ear buds, trodes, and AR contacts. Which would all be innocuous excepting that we expect he's some sort of security and 2/3rds of that is needed for a smartlink.

Can I see the model of gun and commlink. There is a big difference between someone rolling around with a DR1 prepaid, someone with a Blue Defender, and someone with an actually high end commlink.

Similarly there is a difference between someone with a cheap Russian automatic and a top of the line Ares handgun.

Thanks to both of you.  Sounds like I'm not too far off in what I'm understanding so far.  I've been doing some more fast reading, but I'd like to do a little more this evening, so I'm going to hold the IC post until tomorrow.

Spike, I'll see if I can get answers to your questions or find out what you'll need to do in order to be able to tell.  That one may take some sort of more active matrix look around.

I'm going to have to disagree on the slaving to a commlink does nothing, since the first line in the PANs and WANs section of the core rulebook says: If you want extra protection for some of your devices, you can slave them to your commlink or deck.  (Unless there's a change further in that I've not seen yet.)

And I've been reading the wireless advantages section on some of the gear, and some of those advantages are just odd.  Wireless throwing knives and shuriken???

One more question I haven't found an answer to yet.  If you have a decker providing overwatch... slaving your gear to his deck... how do people know when they see you in the matrix?

I think this might help,

Slaving to a comm link lets it use the firewall of the device instead of its own if any.  I had assumed that each device has its own device rating, but it appears that cyberware without being slaved to a comm or deck does not have a firewall.  let me do some more research on that.

also:

Rules as they are written (RAW): You may only only slave data process number of devices to a commlink or cyberjack (and device rating x 3 drones to a remote command console). This indirectly mean that each member of the team will have a small PAN that they themselves defend (and that most of their devices will not be protected by a firewall at all). It also mean that if each individual network are running silent then someone need to successfully take individual opposed matrix perception tests to spot them. If a hostile hacker gain access he will only gain access to one of the networks.

Rules as the author originally intended them (RAI): You [house] rule that PANs may be daisy-chained to create one big network that normally the team's technology specialist (decker, rigger, living network technomancer) is defending. This indirectly mean that if the network is running silent and someone successfully take an opposed matrix perception test then this someone will spot the whole silent running network. It also mean that if a hostile hacker gain access then he will be considered to be on the inside and have access on the whole daisy-chained network at once.

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95% of all Cyberware cannot be hacked. This is especially so for Bioware. The reason being is that almost all cyberware is directly hooked up to a person's CNS (central nervous system) and don't give off a wireless signal.

The biggest example would be Cyber Eyes. As a standard issue cyber replacement, they cannot be hacked and bricked. ONLY when you introduce a wireless component -- such as vision enhancement (which has a wireless bonus) -- are you then subjected to the threat of opposing deckers. Basically, if it's wireless, it can be hacked.

Chromed Shadowrunners typically want to have a decker watching their back. Established Runners (character gen) typically should take the highest rating commlink and slave their wireless gear to that 12 dice firewall (Device Rating + Firewall).

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Augmentations without a rating have a device rating of 2, 3 for Alphaware, 4 for betaware and 5 for deltaware. SR5 p. 421 Device Rating table.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:25, Tue 16 Apr.

I think you're right about the no firewall for 'ware or devices that aren't slaved.  'Ware without wireless bonuses, or with wireless turned off can't be seen or affected from the matrix.

I think most runners would slave anything wireless to their commlink PAN as a matter of course, to the point I'm willing to take that as a basic assumption, unless someone states it's slaved to something else, like a decker's deck.

On the connection to the nervous system, the way I'm reading things is that for wireless 'ware, a hacker can turn it off (if they can get through the defenses), brick it completely, or issue commands to it.  If it's turned off, you can turn it back on with a simple action (Change Device Mode?).  Bricked is bricked... If they issue a command you can issue your own from the nervous system interface.  Not sure if you can do that with an interrupt action.

I'm still trying to decide if you can slave your commlink, with your gear slaved to it, to another device, like a secondary commlink or a decker's deck.  And how technomancers fit into that whole puzzle is a completely separate set of headaches.

For now, in practical terms, if any of you want to mess with somebody's 'ware or other devices, you're free to try.  I'm not going to have them mess with yours until I'm a lot more certain of my rulings.
=====================================

That said, I think I was wrong to let Spike see his gun via matrix at range... it should only be visible within that 100m radius where the individual wireless connections are talking.  Not going to change it now though.  From the office, just casually, you should see his persona unless he's running silent.  Anything else should take a Matrix Perception check.

Within that 100m, you would see his persona, a commlink icon for his PAN, and things that are 'matrix obvious' like weapons and maybe smartlink systems.  Going deeper would take a check.  That applies to people looking at you as well.

To determine the ratings and models on his gear should also take a deliberate Matrix Perception check.  (There are apparently some gun companies that use nonstandard icons that are obvious what they are, but keep in mind that icons can be replaced by the users.)

And if anyone can point me to rules for noticing if someone is checking you out in the Matrix, please do.

Now, let's see if I can get things back on the rails.

And now, a world style question.  Doesn't really affect the game... just trying to understand.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the AROs and commlinks everywhere.  As I understand it, if you don't have a datajack, and I wouldn't think those are everywhere, you have to use something else to even see AROs.

Trodes will get you the full experience, and I'm guessing they let you interact with AROs as well.  Basically it's a datajack that's just not drilled into your head.

If you don't have trodes, you need goggles, glasses or wireless contacts to see; you need earbuds or headphones or something to hear, plus you need AR gloves to be able to interact.  That seems like a lot of gear; am I missing something somewhere?

What do most people use?  School kids?  Soccer moms?  Normal saririmen?  The guy behind the counter at the Stuffer Shack?  What do people use who live in the Barrens, and aren't shadowrunners?  Like with cellphones today, do you have people 'zombie-walking' the streets and possibly out into traffic?  (With a side issue of how does Grid Guide deal with wandering pedestrians?)

Does the gear you use to interact with your commlink and AROs say something about you, socially?  Do people laugh at goggle wearers?

I imagine most people have goggles or contacts that can see on AR. It's how you interact with everything basically and they are relatively cheap. Even without I expect you can pull a Google cardboard and hold your phone up to see the AROs around you.

I was pretty sure trodes are an input not an output. So you don't see with trodes you can just send texts without using your hands and such.

---

My thoughts was that I AM within 100m because I have hardware in the area. As opposed to just zipping there in VR.

Slaving master devices is weird. It becomes a whole thing with personas. I think that is what is stopping me from having 15 agents all running errands for me at once but I would have to look at the details again.

In reply to TheGM (msg # 191):

As i dont have cyberware, it does not affect, me, but cyberware that is wireless off, or on an internal router can only be hacked using induction: IE touching it with a deck with the induction add on.

If they can get a mark, They could data spike it, but that only does matrix damage which is 'fairly' easy to repair.

Obviously your game and you can rule 0 what ever you want.



Yes



Sort of, data jack gives 1 noise reduction and cant just be removed



Yep sounds right



Well mages are a thing and they will always (#rarely) not even get even a data port, so there are always people who would just use other means.  Installation of cyberware in children generally is not done because they grow up and would need additional surgeries.

As far as other people, sure some people look down on those with less/without.

If you are just doing something light weight, i would assume you can hold up your comm, and just look on the screen for advertising and such.

Well as my kids VR goggles have a visual safety ring, i would assume that AR rigs would all have a safety system to prevent/alert for obvious danger.

As far as how much people are lost in AR? GM call on how prevalent it is.

Right now Miyako i guess can see because she has data link in her helmet. but she uses it more for the camera aspect then AR.

I remember now. The reason I can't Deck and Rig is that I couldn't have drones slaved to the RCC and then have the RCC slaved to my Deck.

Core says Commlinks can also have DRx3 slaves. I was trying to find where it talks about having your team slaves to your deck so you can be their babysitter but I'm not seeing it.

I think the middle ground is that you can have Master/Slave trains but there has to be a personna at each master layer. Weather that means I could jump into someone else's slaved drone or not? Unclear, just tell me no for safety.

Thanks to both of you.

Hardware within the 100m radius makes sense.  I just hadn't thought about it that way.

Slaving things to a deck for babysitting seems to pretty much covered in PANs and WANs, then the example box on the same page.  It's the same DRx3 slave limit.  I thought I'd seen something where that could be raised, but I'm not finding it now.  Don't remember if it was hardware or software either.

Now I have a new thing to research too... riggers taking over other people's drones, plus deckers and remote control drones...

On the In Character side of things, does anyone have questions or need anything from me to decide what you're doing next?

I don't think there is. But I'm also curious about that since I'm at my limit unless I spend like 100k on the next DR up RCC. I'm actually over my limit but I don't need my Iron man style shop drone slaved on runs. It can just hang out.


Basically Riggers can't unless we get access to Sleaze or Attack so we can get marks (I suppose I could run the cyber program that increase it...) But we need three marks then we can Jump in Just like our normal drones.

Deckers can hack my drones out in the field just like everything else but since they are slaved to my RCC they have to deal With the 12 defense Dice from my RCC.

riggers taking over other people's drones : hacking skill and 1 mark with a cyber deck, which would allow you to issue commands which the pilot program of the drone would operate... It does not allow you to control it with your skills, or assign it to an RCC only issue drone pilot commands

To actually tie the drone to an RCC and pilot it..  from a forum post



Basically what spike said.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:09, Thu 18 Apr.

I actually went over this with my IN person Referee last night. It would be a whole different build to make a "Pirate Rigger" Who doesn't have an RCC but uses a Deck and a Control Rig. Since you can still Jump in just not Jump around with just a Control Rig and no RCC. Plus you can apparently slave just as many devices. No noise reduction but I have the coffin to stay close anyway so I wasn't planning on having huge amounts of noise to begin with.

Honestly If I had thought of it as an option at the time. I might have built Spike that way since I don't actually have a strong incentive to jump around much anyway. I suck so my drones are better at everything that me until I need to do vehicle tests and can use the difficulty reduction.

Interesting.  May do some digging specifically along those lines, but for now, it sounds like the practical answer is 'no'.

 are we waiting to finish recon before reconvening as a group?

Are we at the spot or still at the meeting point?

I don't think we ever met back up. Because I never introduced my van.

yeah. i think we need to get back onto the same timeline. lol

We are close enough to the target that I can deploy my drones from the base and just fly them there?

How fast and loose are you playing with legality? Because I COULD have taken the turret off my van.

OK well as the GM has not even logged in in 3 weeks, i'm putting this on the dead game pile.

If it becomes active it should pop back up for me.

*wave*

Still a perfect score I see.   -.-

Oh well, better luck next game, everyone.

That is disappointing. I had such high hopes. Better luck next time Chummers.

Yes. Oh, well.